The ultimate game mode creator

[Wjolcz]

I don't remember seeing a thread like this but I've seen people talking about the idea so I thought maybe it's a good idea to create one like this.

Right now every aspect of the game that uses resources (money, rep, science) can't be easily modified. What would be ideal are even more advanced settings than the ones we have now. So this is how I'd imagine it:

Every element of the game that generates or consumes the aforementioned "resources" would be toggled in the settings. You go into the settings and see:

Buildings -> upgrade with: money/reputation/science

Tech tree -> unlock with: money/reputation/science

Science experiments -> generate: money/reputation/science

Contracts -> reward: money/reputation/science

Vessels -> cost: money/reputation/science

Kerbals -> cost: money/reputation/science

And so on...

The X/Y/Z elements represent the options that can be enabled or disabled. That way we would have the classic career and science mode as the presets and everyone who hates (like me) one or more elements of certain mode would be able to disable them. It would also be an opportunity to experiment a bit. For example, someone who would want to upgrade the buildings with science and reputation and launch rockets by paying reputation (or other crazy things like that) could freely do it.

[OPINION] Maybe it would be a good idea if SQUAD also pre-released this mode creator to us (the community) before it gets fully implemented in order to find these sweet spots of easy/medium/hard difficulties for every possible preset. Maybe. I mean, they have their test team but asking the community to find the balance of all these things would make the time needed to develop it much shorter. People would just create their custom game modes, others would try them out, vote for which ones feel the best and most fun and then the test team would pick these and improve them even more. It could even be in a form of competition (just like the company flags things) and people with the most votes would win something. I don't know if it's a good idea, but I feel like the game could benefit from this. [/OPINION]

Edited February 27, 2017 by Veeltch

[Hotaru]

Personally this feels more like something that should be exposed in config files somewhere rather than in an actual in-game menu, just because I suspect a tiny minority of users would ever actually change those settings. You would, and I probably would, and it'd be great to be able to, but it's good to keep in perspective what the majority of users are likely to need.

[Wjolcz]

40 minutes ago, Hotaru said:

Personally this feels more like something that should be exposed in config files somewhere rather than in an actual in-game menu, just because I suspect a tiny minority of users would ever actually change those settings. You would, and I probably would, and it'd be great to be able to, but it's good to keep in perspective what the majority of users are likely to need.

That's why I think there should be multiple presets created with the help of the community.

[MinimalMinmus]

Neat idea, but using rep for things wouldn't work, for several reasons:

1. Rep is used passively in Mission control for contract quality and number.

2. Rep isn't obtained linearly like the other 2: getting from 0 to 500 rep is as much efforts as from 800 to 900. The game risks becoming very grindy.

3. Last but not least, rep is... well... rep. Why would you lose rep while, say, upgrading a building? Spending science is okay (they may ask for newer engineering techs) but rep? Are we using slaves to build it or something?

[Wjolcz]

43 minutes ago, MinimalMinmus said:

Neat idea, but using rep for things wouldn't work, for several reasons:

1. Rep is used passively in Mission control for contract quality and number.

And it's the exact reason why the way contracts work is crap. I've already talked about it in one of my threads so no reason to derail this one.

43 minutes ago, MinimalMinmus said:

2. Rep isn't obtained linearly like the other 2: getting from 0 to 500 rep is as much efforts as from 800 to 900. The game risks becoming very grindy.

Unless you setup the experiments to generate it.

43 minutes ago, MinimalMinmus said:

3. Last but not least, rep is... well... rep. Why would you lose rep while, say, upgrading a building? Spending science is okay (they may ask for newer engineering techs) but rep? Are we using slaves to build it or something?

Well, I agree that this point is a bit problematic to explain and deal with. Since there are three resources that can be toggled on/off then what's the point of having them all if one can do just as well? BUT if you want to keep the current game modes as presets then it needs to stay. I know it doesn't make much sense, but since the devs aren't willing to redo the career mode from the scratch then at least this (I'm not saying mine because I'm not the only one with this concept in mind) way we could make the career more enjoyable and just mod the rest in. I haven't seen a single mod that gets rid of science points and uses money for unlocking the tree. It has to be bypassed by many mods working together but it's worth the effort IMO (the proof is in my signature).

Edited February 27, 2017 by Veeltch

[tater]

Given that the hooks already in place are never going to be changed, and we're never going to see a better campaign system, this seems like a good idea.

[HebaruSan]

On 2/27/2017 at 9:23 AM, Veeltch said:

Every element of the game that generates or consumes the aforementioned "resources" would be toggled in the settings. You go into the settings and see:

Buildings -> upgrade with: money/reputation/science

Tech tree -> unlock with: money/reputation/science

Science experiments -> generate: money/reputation/science

Contracts -> reward: money/reputation/science

Vessels -> cost: money/reputation/science

Kerbals -> cost: money/reputation/science

And so on...

The X/Y/Z elements represent the options that can be enabled or disabled.

Would this require SQUAD to go back and define all of the costs in all of the currencies? Turning off science to progress in the tech tree is a simple concept, but If I want to turn on reputation-based part unlocks and building upgrades, the numbers would have to come from somewhere. Sounds like a lot of fiddly balance work for something they would never use in stock.

[Wjolcz]

15 minutes ago, HebaruSan said:

Would this require SQUAD to go back and define all of the costs in all of the currencies? Turning off science to progress in the tech tree is a simple concept, but If I want to turn on reputation-based part unlocks and building upgrades, the numbers would have to come from somewhere. Sounds like a lot of fiddly balance work for something they would never use in stock.

I'd imagine them setting some sort of default 100% cost values and then allowing the player to adjust the percentage slider of the cost (if the cost of a node is 10 rep at 100% and you set it to be 10% then the cost is now 1 rep). We can do that to contract and science rewards already.

But then the player would have the ability to mess up their career experience completely BUT it's possible already with the sliders we have in the game anyway. Sure, more freedom equals more ways of effing it up but also more ways of doing it right.

EDIT: ^^^that's why I think it's a good idea to help them as a community balancing such feature. The more people playtests it the more properly balanced presets there will be.

Edited March 1, 2017 by Veeltch

[SickSix]

Not sure using Rep us a good idea. 

However I think a money only game mode would make a lot of people happy. Each part in the tech tree already has a cost. Just add a cost for each node as well.

[HebaruSan]

21 minutes ago, Veeltch said:

EDIT: ^^^that's why I think it's a good idea to help them as a community balancing such feature. The more people playtests it the more properly balanced presets there will be.

But even a poorly balanced version of this would require SQUAD to spend time specifying some value for the reputation cost of unlocking each of the 297 parts, the reputation cost of placing each part on a craft, etc. Can you think of a way this could benefit SQUAD, other than "somebody might come out with a really good career revamp mod someday"?

[Wjolcz]

5 minutes ago, HebaruSan said:

But even a poorly balanced version of this would require SQUAD to spend time specifying some value for the reputation cost of unlocking each of the 297 parts, the reputation cost of placing each part on a craft, etc. Can you think of a way this could benefit SQUAD, other than "somebody might come out with a really good career revamp mod someday"?

Well, I feel like it all boils down to the way career was designed. It's not my fault they did what they did and now I can't play the game the way I want. Career could've been much more simpler. All I want is a way to get rid of the science points. Right now it's not possible even with mods.

18 minutes ago, SickSix said:

Not sure using Rep us a good idea. 

However I think a money only game mode would make a lot of people happy. Each part in the tech tree already has a cost. Just add a cost for each node as well.

The reputation-based game was just an example. It makes no sense and I wouldn't do it but I don't think people who would should be excluded.

Edited March 1, 2017 by Veeltch

[pandaman]

I like that idea @Veeltch.

I definitely agree that some presets should be given.  Probably with a bit more variety than we currently have as that could help show how the system works too.