totm nov 2023 SpaceX Discussion Thread

[sevenperforce]

10 hours ago, Mad Rocket Scientist said:

Unfortunately, that video title was, like most headlines, likely not actually chosen by the reporter. I didn't understand this for a long time, and always wondered why Eric Berger's Ars Technica articles were accurate and well researched, but the headlines were always inaccurate and clickbaity. It turns out that headlines are picked by A/B testing with random audiences or by editors rather than being written by the reporter.

This is true. Sometimes they will even A/B test using full-scale ad campaigns just to see which buzzword combination generates the most hits.

I once wrote a piece about leaving fundamentalism for Huffington and the title they chose implied (though inadverently) that I was (still) a member of a (different) cult.

 

1 hour ago, NSEP said:

Technically the Soyuz can be seen as a two person capsule. Soyuz MS-10 launching next October will carry only two people, and i don't think they will have an extra seat for a non-existent space traveller.

Last year, Soyuz MS-04 also carried only two people, and judging from the footage, there isn't an extra seat in the middle.

Well, the Dragon could also fly with only two people, with five seats removed, but that wouldn't make it a 2-person capsule either.

1 hour ago, kerbiloid said:

  Hide contents

Dragon has a capacity for  2 spacemen with 20 sacks of potatoes

Forward, to Mars!

 

Looks like Mark Watney found a new ride

[Reactordrone]

1 hour ago, NSEP said:

Technically the Soyuz can be seen as a two person capsule. Soyuz MS-10 launching next October will carry only two people, and i don't think they will have an extra seat for a non-existent space traveller.

Last year, Soyuz MS-04 also carried only two people, and judging from the footage, there isn't an extra seat in the middle.

 

The centre and left hand seat are occupied there, the right hand seat is empty. With that camera angle it's normal to only see a bit of the left arm of the right hand seat occupant.

Having said that Soyuz was a two man ship for many years after the Soyuz 11 accident.

[StarStreak2109]

I always thought of Soyuz as positively claustrophobic... I comparison to that you can dance a waltz inside Dragon... Well not quite, but it feels like it...

[sh1pman]

6 minutes ago, StarStreak2109 said:

I always thought of Soyuz as positively claustrophobic... I comparison to that you can dance a waltz inside Dragon... Well not quite, but it feels like it...

Soyuz has 3 times more habitable volume than Gemini, or 2 times more per person (7.5m^3 vs 2.5m^3). Crew Dragon has something like 10 m^3 of pressurized volume, no idea how much of it is “habitable”, but let’s say all of it. Then with 4 person crew it will have the same volume per person as Soyuz, and less with larger crew.

[magnemoe]

32 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

Soyuz has 3 times more habitable volume than Gemini, or 2 times more per person (7.5m^3 vs 2.5m^3). Crew Dragon has something like 10 m^3 of pressurized volume, no idea how much of it is “habitable”, but let’s say all of it. Then with 4 person crew it will have the same volume per person as Soyuz, and less with larger crew.

Soyuz has the top module for use in space, the return and accent capsule is cramped, its an way to maximize habitable volum for weight. 

[kerbiloid]

1 hour ago, StarStreak2109 said:

I always thought of Soyuz as positively claustrophobic...

Soyuz even has a separated toilet-and-kitchen 2-in-1, unlike others.
No full diapers or privacy curtains, but a full-featured hermetic door and even a window to be gazing at stars, and a snack box right at hands. "Ride in Soyuz, fly like a sir!"..

P.S.
Just thought.
Shuttle had a toilet cabin. 
And now, after 140 comfy flights, they (Dragon, Orion, CST) are going to return to the happy Gemini/Apollo practice?

Edited August 15, 2018 by kerbiloid

[sh1pman]

47 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

Just thought.
 Shuttle had a toilet cabin. 
 And now, after 140 comfy flights, they (Dragon, Orion, CST) are going to return to the happy Gemini/Apollo practice?

Yea, until BFR starts flying. It'll have proper bathrooms and showers and everything.

[sevenperforce]

54 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

Soyuz even has a separated toilet-and-kitchen 2-in-1, unlike others.
No full diapers or privacy curtains, but a full-featured hermetic door and even a window to be gazing at stars, and a snack box right at hands. "Ride in Soyuz, fly like a sir!"..

P.S.
Just thought.
Shuttle had a toilet cabin. 
And now, after 140 comfy flights, they (Dragon, Orion, CST) are going to return to the happy Gemini/Apollo practice?

Reusability comes with some limitations.

[kerbiloid]

2 minutes ago, sevenperforce said:

Reusability comes with some limitations.

If they add a recycler in the cabin, the reusability will be complete.

(like ECLSS)

Edited August 15, 2018 by kerbiloid

[tater]

2 hours ago, sevenperforce said:

Well, the Dragon could also fly with only two people, with five seats removed, but that wouldn't make it a 2-person capsule either.

To have 7 seats, they will have to add 3. It's nominally only ever going to have 4 seats installed as I understand it.

[StarStreak2109]

But does it need to have all these amenities? Under ideal circumstances, the flight to the ISS is what? 12 hrs? Not much more than two days I guess, right? After all, we're talking about a glorified taxi here. The shuttle IMHO was designed for longer stay in orbit to conduct experiments etc. - a whole different animal.

And I think Soyuz originally was also not designed to be solely a taxi to and from LEO, but rather a more multipurpose vehicle.

So yeah, while having a space toilet only with a curtain around it may seem like a step back, it would IMHO certainly overkill to add all that additional unneeded weight for more privacy...

[sevenperforce]

4 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

If they add a recycler in the cabin, the reusability will be complete.

I see what you did there.

17 minutes ago, StarStreak2109 said:

But does it need to have all these amenities? Under ideal circumstances, the flight to the ISS is what? 12 hrs? Not much more than two days I guess, right? After all, we're talking about a glorified taxi here. The shuttle IMHO was designed for longer stay in orbit to conduct experiments etc. - a whole different animal.

And I think Soyuz originally was also not designed to be solely a taxi to and from LEO, but rather a more multipurpose vehicle.

So yeah, while having a space toilet only with a curtain around it may seem like a step back, it would IMHO certainly overkill to add all that additional unneeded weight for more privacy...

Yeah, the shuttle was always a flying lab.

Hard to come up with a way to outfit Dragon 2 differently. It's big, but it's not THAT big. I don't think it has enough space to add an additional deck in place of the lower three seats. If it was just a bit taller, perhaps....

[kerbiloid]

5 minutes ago, sevenperforce said:

Hard to come up with a way to outfit Dragon 2 differently. It's big, but it's not THAT big. I don't think it has enough space to add an additional deck in place of the lower three seats. If it was just a bit taller, perhaps....

Of course, that's just a conceptual animation, but the whole idea looks viable.

Spoiler

 

 

[sevenperforce]

7 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

Of course, that's just a conceptual animation, but the whole idea looks viable.

  Hide contents

 

 

Nice concept. But no way that could pack enough dV for a lunar ascent even if it used the trunk for deorbit and descent, let alone Earth return. And an airlock is more important than a bathroom. No space for EVA suiting, either.

[tater]

1 hour ago, kerbiloid said:

Of course, that's just a conceptual animation, but the whole idea looks viable.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Really cool, but that spacecraft is also larger in diameter by 70cm (a guess). I think the idea of a purpose-built bathroom makes a lot of sense for a vehicle to be used for cislunar space. Orion should have that layout, and if commercial crew was ever to be used for crew delivery someplace farther afield (lunar orbit, for example) then I think that would be a good idea as well. even if it meant lowering the crew from 4 to 3.

Edited August 15, 2018 by tater

[sh1pman]

23 minutes ago, sevenperforce said:

Nice concept. But no way that could pack enough dV for a lunar ascent even if it used the trunk for deorbit and descent, let alone Earth return. And an airlock is more important than a bathroom. No space for EVA suiting, either.

Yea, that landing is probably just some artist’s imagination. It’s only supposed to be able to reach lunar orbit and return, but not land on the surface. 

(But honestly, I think it’ll be canceled and will never fly, but that’s another story).

Edited August 15, 2018 by sh1pman

[kerbiloid]

I've mentioned it just as a sample of a mini-restroom design.

[sevenperforce]

23 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

Yea, that landing is probably just some artist’s imagination. It’s only supposed to be able to reach lunar orbit and return, but not land on the surface. 

(But honestly, I think it’ll be canceled and will never fly, but that’s another story).

Short of a behemoth like BFS, you almost need a reusable orbit-to-surface-and-back skycrane. Skycrane drops an unmanned hab complete with attacked airlock, returns to orbit and refuels. Drops an unmanned pressurized rover, then returns to orbit and refuels. Then it docks to the capsule and lands with it. The rover can drive over and dock with the capsule so that the crew can make their way to the hab.

 

[mikegarrison]

3 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

Soyuz even has a separated toilet-and-kitchen 2-in-1, unlike others.
No full diapers or privacy curtains, but a full-featured hermetic door and even a window to be gazing at stars, and a snack box right at hands. "Ride in Soyuz, fly like a sir!"..

P.S.
Just thought.
Shuttle had a toilet cabin. 
And now, after 140 comfy flights, they (Dragon, Orion, CST) are going to return to the happy Gemini/Apollo practice?

The CST-100 will have no toilet facility at all. It's not intended for long-term occupation.

[sh1pman]

1 minute ago, sevenperforce said:

Short of a behemoth like BFS, you almost need a reusable orbit-to-surface-and-back skycrane. Skycrane drops an unmanned hab complete with attacked airlock, returns to orbit and refuels. Drops an unmanned pressurized rover, then returns to orbit and refuels. Then it docks to the capsule and lands with it. The rover can drive over and dock with the capsule so that the crew can make their way to the hab.

Well, there's finally a use for LOP-G - being a fuel depot for skycrane.

[CatastrophicFailure]

7 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

Well, there's finally a use for LOP-G - being a fuel depot for skycrane.

And a space toilet, apparently... 

[sevenperforce]

10 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

Well, there's finally a use for LOP-G - being a fuel depot for skycrane.

My thoughts exactly. Give lunar astronauts a hab and a fuel depot. Maybe do drop tanks for the skycrane initially. Might be worth it to put a stripped-down Dragon 2 (no aeroshell or heat shield) there to act as the descent/ascent hab.

[tater]

48 minutes ago, mikegarrison said:

The CST-100 will have no toilet facility at all. It's not intended for long-term occupation.

Will it not even have a portable toilet? I think Orion has something like that.

Assuming it has nothing at all, then will it only do really rapid transfers to ISS, akin to the last Soyuz flight that docked a few hours after launch?

(zero-g bathroom issues are pretty interesting/important, IMNSHO)

Orion has a purpose-built alcove, looks like:

 

 

[tater]

Not grandpa's crew access arm:

 

[Ultimate Steve]

YES! At long last! Reddit is probably already freaking out over this, I should probably check over there.