Exoscientist Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 8 hours ago, Ultimate Steve said: I did the math for another chat somewhere else, at a minimum, assuming I did the math right, you would need 77.5 megawatts just for the phase change on super heavy (assumed super heavy was entirely lox, bc I couldn't be bothered). More for inefficiencies, more if you want the gas to be anything higher than 91 kelvin. And then you have to pump fuel and exhaust through it which is gonna lead to some efficiency losses. More connections, possibly another pump system, something that has to be built into all 33 engines... However I don't really know what a 77.5 megawatt heat exchanger would look like. That sounds like a big number but super heavy is so big that it could be a tiny number. I don't know enough about heat exchangers and raptor to do more than a simple ballpark "how much heat moves through this wall" with guesstimate temperatures and materials and thicknesses. So I really couldn't tell you if it's a bone headed decision or something that was heavy and complex enough that filters looked like (or are) the better option. They might want to ask the Skylon people about getting a lightweight heat exchanger, since they had to invent one better than existing art for their precooler. Bob Clark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PakledHostage Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 Just as an aside: Watching EveryDayAstronaut's interview with Elon Musk yesterday where he mentions the "Pez" satellite deployment system, did they get that name from my "Figaro" KSP GNSS mod? I made this video 11 years ago: Would be kind of cool if that was the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCgothic Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 Nah, pez dispensers have been a thing for decades, I remember them when I was young. A quick search turned up they've been around since 1927. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PakledHostage Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 Just now, RCgothic said: Nah, pez dispensers have been a thing for decades, I remember them when I was young. Yes, that's what I was referencing when I called it that in that video. I guess it is a fairly obvious reference, but I did use it already 11 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Nuke Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 16 hours ago, Exoscientist said: They might want to ask the Skylon people about getting a lightweight heat exchanger, since they had to invent one better than existing art for their precooler. Bob Clark the cool thing about developing a high performance heat exchanger is it has applications all over the place. a very wise place to start. space-x definitely wouldn't mind getting ahold of their water rejection system that keeps the thing from turning into a block of ice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegarrison Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 5 minutes ago, Nuke said: the cool thing about developing a high performance heat exchanger is it has applications all over the place. a very wise place to start. space-x definitely wouldn't mind getting ahold of their water rejection system that keeps the thing from turning into a block of ice. Reaction Engines has had a lot of people interested in buying access to their heat exchanger technology. Recuperation is one of the biggest available cycle improvements for jet engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnemoe Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 7 hours ago, PakledHostage said: Yes, that's what I was referencing when I called it that in that video. I guess it is a fairly obvious reference, but I did use it already 11 years ago. The starship version looks a lot more like the standard pez dispenser who again takes the idea from the magazine of a gun, a spring pushed the candy up and some pusher act like the bolt and pushes the candy forward. Only differene is that the starlink pez eject from the bottom. The only issue I see with the design is to avoid jamming the wide and thin satellites feeding them down but sure this is an common issue with magazine of plates being feed into presses and other stuff in industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 Second launch today in progress Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deddly Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 6 hours ago, magnemoe said: Only differene is that the starlink pez eject from the bottom. The only issue I see with the design is to avoid jamming the wide and thin satellites feeding them down but sure this is an common issue with magazine of plates being feed into presses and other stuff in industry. In zero G, does it matter what is top and bottom? Spoiler It doesn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBase Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 I just got enough time to watch EverydayAstronaut's video: @12min (https://youtu.be/aFqjoCbZ4ik?t=753) Elon gives some great insight what to expect from next IFTs: They had a plan to seal the hinge area other than moving the flaps leeward, however we all know that it barely failed late enough for the flaps to stay functional. So improvements might be possible even with ship 30. He also makes clear that the pez dispenser and delivering payload is less a priority than design issues on reusability for this year. @18min there is a interesting moment when Elon responds why they gave up other cooling solutions, which is a decission about 4 years old. In a very engineering style he rolls up all changes since then and it seems like he is surprised that mass reasoning does not apply anymore. However after discussing return from Mars he is clear that these conditions are too tough for other solutions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elthy Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 This comment gives a tl:dr for the video. I think, havent watched it myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 Dodd seems like a nice enough guy but wasting possible followup questions with "insane" every few seconds is... tiresome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthgently Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 17 minutes ago, tater said: Dodd seems like a nice enough guy but wasting possible followup questions with "insane" every few seconds is... tiresome. I found myself counting the "that's crazy!" and "insane!" which means I'm this close to moving on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 12 minutes ago, darthgently said: I found myself counting the "that's crazy!" and "insane!" which means I'm this close to moving on There's great stuff in the tours, but mostly from video, and from Musk rambling. Interviewing people is a skill, but in the case of his access to Musk, it's kinda easy. Have some pointed engineering questions, and Musk will immediately tangent and start riffing. You'd think he would have realized that by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevenperforce Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 22 hours ago, tater said: Elon: "Regenerative cooling and secondary flow paths have been made integral to the whole engine, thus no heat shield is required. Nothing quite like this has ever been done before. Taking away the engine heat shields also removes the need for 10+ tons of fire suppression behind the engine heat shield, as any gas leaks simply enter the already super-heated plasma surrounding the engines, rendering the leaks irrelevant." That's...really incredible. Absolutely the kind of "make it better simpler" engineering that SpaceX is becoming known for (and Tesla seems to keep screwing up). 7 hours ago, Deddly said: In zero G, does it matter what is top and bottom? Hide contents It doesn't With gun magazines it doesn't matter either. The springs involved are strong enough that gravity is not meaningful. 8 minutes ago, tater said: There's great stuff in the tours, but mostly from video, and from Musk rambling. Interviewing people is a skill, but in the case of his access to Musk, it's kinda easy. Have some pointed engineering questions, and Musk will immediately tangent and start riffing. You'd think he would have realized that by now. Precisely why Tim annoys me a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuke Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 i find his videos a little long winded myself. keep it under 20 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthgently Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 3 hours ago, tater said: There's great stuff in the tours, but mostly from video, and from Musk rambling. Interviewing people is a skill, but in the case of his access to Musk, it's kinda easy. Have some pointed engineering questions, and Musk will immediately tangent and start riffing. You'd think he would have realized that by now. It's almost like he won a contest to fill a grocery cart with free food, with a time limit, but keeps pausing to take in the great interior design of the store and marveling over the possibilities. Keep that cart moving, Todd! Free food! Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 12 minutes ago, Nuke said: i find his videos a little long winded myself. keep it under 20 minutes. The tours are fine (vs his other, long form content) in terms of length—just needs to leverage the opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exoscientist Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 4 hours ago, tater said: There's great stuff in the tours, but mostly from video, and from Musk rambling. Interviewing people is a skill, but in the case of his access to Musk, it's kinda easy. Have some pointed engineering questions, and Musk will immediately tangent and start riffing. You'd think he would have realized that by now. What additional questions would you like answered? Bob Clark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegarrison Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 5 hours ago, tater said: Dodd seems like a nice enough guy but wasting possible followup questions with "insane" every few seconds is... tiresome. IMO, Dodd is a classic example of someone who gets too close to the people he is supposedly reporting on. He was untrained as a journalist and just kind of fell into whatever his current role can be described as. "YouTuber" probably is the most succinct way of describing it. Besides being a fan, he also has reached the point where his career and most of his income is derived from access to people in the industry, especially Elon Musk. Which means that if he doesn't stroke them and publish mostly (or entirely) what they want him to publish, then he can lose that access, and therefore (effectively) lose his job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegarrison Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 On 6/23/2024 at 8:34 AM, tater said: 4 hours ago, sevenperforce said: That's...really incredible. Absolutely the kind of "make it better simpler" engineering that SpaceX is becoming known for (and Tesla seems to keep screwing up). Um ... OK, so I don't know exactly what he's talking about here, but it certainly didn't sound "incredible" to me, nor did it sound like it was unprecedented. Heat engines go back hundreds of years, and so do the systems designed to cool them. The typical liquid-cooled automobile engine, for instance, has cooling channels running through the engine block that do exactly the function that I think Musk may be talking about here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevenperforce Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 1 hour ago, mikegarrison said: Um ... OK, so I don't know exactly what he's talking about here, but it certainly didn't sound "incredible" to me, nor did it sound like it was unprecedented. Heat engines go back hundreds of years, and so do the systems designed to cool them. The typical liquid-cooled automobile engine, for instance, has cooling channels running through the engine block that do exactly the function that I think Musk may be talking about here. From what I'm hearing, the description is of fully-integrated coolant flow paths that eliminates the need for secondary leak containment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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