Blue Origin thread.

[tater]

 

[tater]

BO drops stuff after SpaceX does something, lol.

[RCgothic]

That was an awful lot of repeating things they'd already done.

"Aggressive step by step" lol.

[SpaceFace545]

Why does BO continue to focus so heavily on space tourism. 1 its a shallow market. 2 they have real potential in the real world.

[RCgothic]

Who knows. Perhaps tomorrow they'll open a hanger and New Glenn will roll out. They don't let on what they're up to which makes it much harder to be a fan.

I exaggerate a little. We know New Glenn isn't going to appear until after Vulcan.

[SpaceFace545]

4 minutes ago, RCgothic said:

Who knows. Perhaps tomorrow they'll open a hanger and New Glenn will roll out. They don't let on what they're up to which makes it much harder to be a fan.

I exaggerate a little. We know New Glenn isn't going to appear until after Vulcan.

Yep, Is blue origin going into the commercial or national defense sector/nasa sector? SpaceX is commercial and ULA is national defense.

[RCgothic]

In theory they'll need to go for the same markets SpaceX does.  NASA, DoD, Commercial, and quasi-internal megaconstellation (Amazon).

[SpaceFace545]

7 minutes ago, RCgothic said:

In theory they'll need to go for the same markets SpaceX does.  NASA, DoD, Commercial, and quasi-internal megaconstellation (Amazon).

I guess, I remember tory bruno saying they want to get into the DOD market but I don't know about commercial. But New Glenn stats wise isn't that great. But it does have a cryo second stage so that could allow it to do some trickier stuff that ULA is able to do.

[tater]

7 minutes ago, SpaceFace545 said:

I guess, I remember tory bruno saying they want to get into the DOD market but I don't know about commercial. But New Glenn stats wise isn't that great. But it does have a cryo second stage so that could allow it to do some trickier stuff that ULA is able to do.

BO tried NG for the AF launch contract and failed.

They have a few commercial customers as well. Clearly the bulk of effort/spending right now is orbital, not NS, but I suppose they need to at least finish it and send people.

49 minutes ago, SpaceFace545 said:

Why does BO continue to focus so heavily on space tourism. 1 its a shallow market. 2 they have real potential in the real world.

This was never a huge focus—they certainly don't expect to make money on it in any real way. Bezos has said a bunch of times that the primary goal was as one of their "steps" to learn operational reuse, etc.

[RCgothic]

Last I heard New Glenn was something like 45 tonnes to LEO with a reusable 1st stage, and they don't plan to ever expend it.

So technically it's a more powerful rocket than Falcon Heavy, though Heavy's expendable modes allow it to retain the advantage for BLEO.

It's also a more powerful rocket than Vulcan, with 7 engines on the core stage vs 2. Vulcan Superheavy with 6 engines might be competitive, but that's only rumoured.

[SpaceFace545]

3 minutes ago, RCgothic said:

Last I heard New Glenn was something like 45 tonnes to LEO with a reusable 1st stage, and they don't plan to ever expend it.

So technically it's a more powerful rocket than Falcon Heavy, though Heavy's expendable modes allow it to retain the advantage for BLEO.

It's also a more powerful rocket than Vulcan, with 7 engines on the core stage vs 2. Vulcan Superheavy with 6 engines might be competitive, but that's only rumoured.

yeah it is a pretty decent launcher and armed with a cryo stage it should be very capable. Especially with Bezos's long term goals of having O'Neill cylinders and stuff.

Why the heck do bezos and musk need ambitiously pointless plans for their rocket companies why can't they be like Tory Bruno and just chill. Bezos wants massive space stations and musk needs to colonize mars for some reason.

[Spaceman.Spiff]

1 minute ago, SpaceFace545 said:

Bezos wants massive space stations

Seems to me Bezos has no interest in the company or space at all.

[SpaceFace545]

4 minutes ago, Spaceman.Spiff said:

Seems to me Bezos has no interest in the company or space at all.

ikr, I don't think musk really cares either about spacex, i think he just is tantalized by mars for some explicit reason. All these guys are actually just major creeps.

Edited May 6, 2021 by SpaceFace545

[tater]

17 minutes ago, SpaceFace545 said:

yeah it is a pretty decent launcher and armed with a cryo stage it should be very capable. Especially with Bezos's long term goals of having O'Neill cylinders and stuff.

NG is a small stepping stone to that. You need way more than 45t to LEO, reusable for that. Back in the day the L5 people were looking at vehicles that put 400t to LEO (or more), 100% reusable.

15 minutes ago, Spaceman.Spiff said:

Seems to me Bezos has no interest in the company or space at all.

 

10 minutes ago, SpaceFace545 said:

ikr, I don't think musk really cares either about spacex, i think he just is tantalized by mars for some explicit reason. All these guys are actually just major creeps.

I think they are both highly motivated to do space, but I think Musk is more focused on it.

Bezos has been into this since college, I don't understand why he doesn't push it harder, though, he's not getting any younger.

Musk is not "tantalized" by Mars. His best statements on the subject show (IMHO) that his primary motivation is to do it because it is cool, and makes life more interesting. As someone not sanguine about colonizing Mars, those ideas have a lot of traction with me. I grew up watching Apollo as a little kid. The Space Shuttle was what I had in college, and I was deeply interested in space exploration in addition to being a big sci fi fan. I honestly expected a Moon base by the turn of the century, and maybe progress towards human Mars exploration. Instead, I got decades of Shuttle. Bezos, Musk and I are of an age, and people our age thought we were getting a science fiction future that never happened. I honestly think they want some of what should have already happened to happen while they are still around to see it.

Edited May 6, 2021 by tater

[Spaceman.Spiff]

2 minutes ago, tater said:

NG is a small stepping stone to that. You need way more than 45t to LEO, reusable for that. Back in the day the L5 people were looking at vehicles that put 400t to LEO (or more), 100% reusable.

17 minutes ago, Spaceman.Spiff said:

new glenn superheavy 5-core

[SpaceFace545]

2 minutes ago, tater said:

NG is a small stepping stone to that. You need way more than 45t to LEO, reusable for that. Back in the day the L5 people were looking at vehicles that put 400t to LEO (or more), 100% reusable.

 

I think they are both highly motivated to do space, but I think Musk is more focused on it.

Bezos has been into this since college, I don't understand why he doesn't push it harder, though, he's not getting any younger.

Musk is not "tantalized" by Mars. His best statements on the subject show (IMHO) that his primary motivation is to do it because it is cool, and makes life more interesting. As someone not sanguine about colonizing Mars, those ideas have a lot of traction with me. I grew up watching Apollo as a little kid. The Space Shuttle was what I had in college, and I was deeply interested in space exploration in addition to being a big sci fi fan. I honestly expected a Moon base by the turn of the century, and maybe progress towards human Mars exploration. Instead, I got decades of Shuttle. Bezos, Musk and I are of an age, and people our age thought we were getting a science fiction future that never happened. I honestly think they want some of what should have already happened to happen while they are still around to see it.

Musk is still a creep though and he is definitely obsessed with mars

[RealKerbal3x]

1 minute ago, SpaceFace545 said:

Musk is still a creep though and he is definitely obsessed with mars

If he has a good reason for being obsessed with Mars, then what's wrong with that? If nothing else it's a good lofty goal to aim for.

[tater]

Mars is simply a goal. Set goal, design to reach goal.

As goals go, it's not a bad one, even if I think sending 100,000 humans to Mars every 2 years is insane. The capability to even consider sending 100 at a time to Mars (or 50, or even 10) every 2 years comes with all kinds of capabilities we lack right now, so if that is their goal, more power to them.

[SpaceFace545]

Just now, RealKerbal3x said:

If he has a good reason for being obsessed with Mars, then what's wrong with that? If nothing else it's a good lofty goal to aim for.

but there isn't a good reason. "making life interplanetary" doesn't really have any benefits other than some sad souls on a distant and inhospitable rock.

[tater]

2 minutes ago, SpaceFace545 said:

but there isn't a good reason. "making life interplanetary" doesn't really have any benefits other than some sad souls on a distant and inhospitable rock.

Sure there is—it's a cool future we all want (at least any of us who are science fiction types).

Maybe the distant rock is less ideal than an O'Neill colony, but the idea that could be people who choose to live in space, and do so in a way that is not awful is compelling.

Simple question, in an ideal human future, are we limited to living on Earth exclusively forever?

If the answer is "no," then it's just an argument about how and timing.

[RealKerbal3x]

Just now, SpaceFace545 said:

but there isn't a good reason. "making life interplanetary" doesn't really have any benefits other than some sad souls on a distant and inhospitable rock.

What about protecting human life from some future catastrophe? If we have humans living elsewhere in the solar system, a nuclear war or asteroid impact won't wipe us out entirely.

Bezos' plan for giant space stations would likely produce similar benefits - a backup for Earth's biosphere.

[RCgothic]

Mars was the inspiration. The inspiration attracted the best engineers, and that made SpaceX the best rocket company. Without that belief in the goal, Falcon 1 would not have been a success and SpaceX would have failed. I strongly recommend you read LiftOff by Eric Berger.

By comparison, Blue Origin's orbital industry isn't nearly as exciting. Combined with their secrecy, their works don't do any of their recruitment for them. That's why SpaceX will always beat them.

[SpaceFace545]

3 minutes ago, RealKerbal3x said:

What about protecting human life from some future catastrophe? If we have humans living elsewhere in the solar system, a nuclear war or asteroid impact won't wipe us out entirely.

Bezos' plan for giant space stations would likely produce similar benefits - a backup for Earth's biosphere.

Literally no mars colony can be self sufficient. it's not a backup. 

Atleast a space station would be closer to home. and much closer at that

[Beccab]

3 minutes ago, SpaceFace545 said:

Literally no mars colony can be self sufficient

I mean, why? Mars has water albeit not liquid (and theoretically it could be created on site as well), and Perseverance already demonstrated oxygen production on site. I could understand if you said "in the next decade" or something like that, but it's definitely possible

Edited May 6, 2021 by Beccab

[RealKerbal3x]

1 minute ago, SpaceFace545 said:

Literally no mars colony can be self sufficient. it's not a backup. 

Atleast a space station would be closer to home. and much closer at that

We can't build a self sufficient Mars colony with current technology. But we're not building it now, realistically anything more than a small outpost crewed by trained astronauts is decades away. There's plenty of time for the technology required to come about.