KSP Interstellar Extended Continued Development Thread

[Profit-]

The Antimatter Harvesting indeed seems over powered right. For starters, they require no power at all to function, which seems odd. Any suggestion for power consumption requirments?

Technically, in theory, any harvesting operation would really only need minor electricity, most of it would be to keep the cryogenic temps required for superconductivity of the magnetic harvesting fields, don't know exactly how much that would be but I assume considering the exposure that the rings would need, it would probably need a little over a megawatt for temperature stability.

[ABZB]

Fractal:

I saw this just now on curse:

http://www.curse.com/ksp-mods/kerbal/232367-hotrockets-fireworks-pack

I don't know if you want them, but I think they might be useful for you.

I tried to message you this, but it says your inbox is full...

[FreeThinker]

I saw this just now on curse:

http://www.curse.com/ksp-mods/kerbal/232367-hotrockets-fireworks-pack

I don't know if you want them, but I think they might be useful for you.

I tried to message you this, but it says your inbox is full...

Perhaps you can integrate it into our electric engines

[ABZB]

Is there a good source for the dominant emission spectra of various elements and compounds???

Edited July 14, 2015 by ABZB

[Profit-]

Is there a good source for the dominant emission spectra of various elements and compounds???

Click on the one you want

http://chemistry.bd.psu.edu/jircitano/periodic4.html

Or if you want a bit more in depth.

http://physics.nist.gov/PhysRefData/ASD/levels_form.html

Edited July 14, 2015 by Profit-

[Balto-the-Wolf-Dog]

Sorry, what exactly are you refering to. To my knowledge, KSPI currently does not use Regolith

It shouldn't, and nothing else does, but it looks like the USI drives still refer to it:

MODULE
{
	name = REGO_ModuleResourceConverter
	StartActionName = Charge Warpdrive
	StopActionName = Stop Charging Warpdrive
	RecipeInputs = Megajoules,5e+5,LqdHelium,50
	RecipeOutputs = ExoticMatter,50,false,WasteHeat,50,false
}

(from any of the cfgs in warpplugin/parts/engines/warpengine)

I'm guessing the REGO prefix is associated with the old regolith API. If I'm wrong, then no clue. Looks like it's vestigial from the old system.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Balto-the-Wolf-Dog

[ABZB]

Click on the one you want

http://chemistry.bd.psu.edu/jircitano/periodic4.html

Or if you want a bit more in depth.

http://physics.nist.gov/PhysRefData/ASD/levels_form.html

currently unknown: Hydrazine,LqdMethane,LqdAmmonia,LqdCO. I know CO2 gas is a pale white - it's used in some neon sign mixtures.

[Profit-]

Hydrazine would be Nitrogens + Hydrogens on the RGB Scale.

Methane would be carbon+Hydrogens

CO2 would be Carbon + Oxygens

Basically most of them would be an off white to kinda purple blue.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Profit-

[ABZB]

I have uploaded a folder containing the new FX from MP_Nazari's upload to curse (CC 4.0) and my MM patch here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1iuobps7mnwayvr/KSPIFX.zip?dl=0

Assuming this is to be added to the main install of KSPI, the paths in the FX would need to be CTRL+R'ed to reflect the new folder path (assuming the FX are then placed in the WarpPlugin/FX folder)

[dlrk]

Couple ISRU questions:

Is KSPI integrated/replacing stock ISRU? If not, is there a way to remove stock ISRU, since it wont be used?

[Weywot8]

Technically, in theory, any harvesting operation would really only need minor electricity, most of it would be to keep the cryogenic temps required for superconductivity of the magnetic harvesting fields, don't know exactly how much that would be but I assume considering the exposure that the rings would need, it would probably need a little over a megawatt for temperature stability.

Well, actually...Kerbal-kind would have discovered high temperature superKonductors that can currently operate around the range of night time on the Moon/Mun so normal shielding and heat pipes would suffice in the more advance world of KSPI-E. Haven't opened KSP but vaguely recall thinking the tech tree progression makes sense with advance electrics/electronics coming before antimatter storage.

Energy use/losses would come from the collectors magnetic field travelling through the planet's field generating force (Force & movement over time = work = energy loss) but much more importantly, the antimatter collected is charged (thats why it's trapped by magnetic fields in the first place). At 'gram' levels, there would be enough repulsive force to literally blow the world apart. (cue Carl Sagan gif). Try generating a magnetic field that can contain that! And if that were achieved, the anti-protons would be moving at very relativistic speeds and all Kerbalkind would die from the resulting synchrotron radiation :P:P:P:cool:<-Jeb

So, "realism" would require energy for

• positron generator to make neutral anti-hydrogen from anti-protons collected
  
• and positron-based cooling or something like that because the anti-protons are moving very fast.. Energy has to be removed but cryo-cooling relying on conductance clearly NOT an option.
  
• followed by final trapping but this last bit probably takes the least amount of energy
  

Kills gameplay cause this is back to reactor based antimatter requirements. bad realism:mad:Suggest leaving current equipment as is, add "nominal" energy requirement (photo-op for sleek solar-paneled collector ships +/-a generator somewhere but that isn't as pretty unless going for a Russian aesthetic).

Instead, add balance-realism by making orbital anti-protons a slowly renewing resource like in real life, timescale of 1-5y, number balanced for gameplay. (affects magnetometer readings). Ability to timewarp to collect loads of antimatter a viable option, but would typically stretch out career mode a bit longer depending on player style.

In real life, anti-protons of different velocities are trapped at different orbital radii, in similar shape but different position to Van-Allen belts and each radii can be depleted. The most efficient collecting orbit would be equatorial and rather eccentric. Realistic implementation with correct varying output & depletion for inclined orbits would be painful so probably best to leave it spherically Kerbal'esque.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Weywot8

[FreeThinker]

Couple ISRU questions:

Is KSPI integrated/replacing stock ISRU? If not, is there a way to remove stock ISRU, since it wont be used?

A simple Module Manager Script could do it, but I do not feel comfortable to disable stock ISRU functionality untill alternative hasn't fully matured yet.

Edited July 15, 2015 by FreeThinker

[FranFranz]

Hello everyone. Probably this has already been asked. Where can I find an updated technical guide to KSPI, if there exist? I know there is the wiki from the old FractalUK version of KSPI, but it seems to be quite outdated.

Moreover, I'm having some difficulties to design spaceplanes with a fusion reactor, a thermal generator and a thermal turbojet:

1) Sometimes the TWR is incredibly high (more or less equal to 3, which is really exaggerated) while some other times it is a more reasonable 0.5

2) When I switch off the fusion reactor, I cannot switch it on again, even if I have more that 20'000 EC on board (I followed the FractalUK requirement: EC >= 400MW * 0.04s * 1000 EC/MJ). Even at full EC, the Megajoules control window is showing a 500 MW power requirement and the electric charge doesn't decrease.

I thank in advance whoever will help me!

Edited July 15, 2015 by FranFranz

[FreeThinker]

In order to restart the magnetic confinement (large) fusion reactor, you need an sufficiently strong enough external powersource. Either another reactor or Microwave. This represent the difficulty of starting a stable fusion process in the first place. THis usualy means you effectively need to have a standby fission reactor with electric generator, which has enough capacity to start the process. Note you initialy need 10% of the power production to maintain fusion. Upgraded version only need 5% and eventualy only 2.5%.

Edited July 15, 2015 by FreeThinker

[Weywot8]

So, "realism" would require energy for

• positron generator to make neutral anti-hydrogen from anti-protons collected
  
• and positron-based cooling or something like that because the anti-protons are moving very fast.. Energy has to be removed but cryo-cooling relying on conductance clearly NOT an option.
  
• followed by final trapping but this last bit probably takes the least amount of energy
  

Kills gameplay cause this is back to reactor based antimatter requirements.

My bad! Got smacked in the back of the head by physics friend. All the above true but overlooked proton-electron mass ratio.

Based on the ratio, suggest that realistic orbital antimatter power requirement is a dedicated reactor/energy consuming source of anti-matter production. Assume ability whereby all antimatter generated from reactor is positrons/anti-electrons. Allow up to 1836.152x more antimatter generation based on matching levels of orbital anti-proton collection. Orbital depletion-slow renewal becomes optional as a rate-limiting step. Almost 2000x production rate as a 'tech upgrade' isn't a nerf . If 2000x is too high, lowering it is reasonable as positron cooling would divert some positrons away from anti-hydrogen production.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Weywot8

[FreeThinker]

Sorry, but I don't understand. Exactly what are you proposing?

[Ford6]

. . . . that he / she needs there head examined after there "friend" hit them in the back of it? j/k

I cant get my head around the particulars . . but there suggesting that the antimatter collector should be drawing power, as it would need to consume some to generate the proton fields that it would use to trap / collect the antimatter with out it going Kerbal (aka: Boom.)

[Balto-the-Wolf-Dog]

Sorry, what exactly are you refering to. To my knowledge, KSPI currently does not use Regolith

It shouldn't, and nothing else does, but it looks like the USI drives still refer to it:

MODULE
{
	name = REGO_ModuleResourceConverter
	StartActionName = Charge Warpdrive
	StopActionName = Stop Charging Warpdrive
	RecipeInputs = Megajoules,5e+5,LqdHelium,50
	RecipeOutputs = ExoticMatter,50,false,WasteHeat,50,false
}

(from any of the cfgs in warpplugin/parts/engines/warpengine)

I'm guessing the REGO prefix is associated with the old regolith API. If I'm wrong, then no clue. Looks like it's vestigial from the old system.

Update: I've confirmed that bit of script was the problem and fixed it with USI's current resource module. There's also an issue with the boiloff/containment system wherein if the tank goes dry containment cannot be enabled again. That appears to be associated with the cryostat module which is a bit out of my realm of knowledge, so I just dropped the cryo functionality and adjusted the stats to match Interstellar's own warp drives. Figured I'd let you/others with the problem know and save you the poking about.

[pvtstash]

How much power were you actually sending? Also why don't you use the receiver slider to tweak maximum received power?

I have a 100GW power station sitting on Kerbin.

I redid the model with 4 Microwave Beamed Power Receivers and dropped the receiver throttle down to 5% on all 4 like you suggested. That did reduce the heat spike drastically. I did notice though that using engines other than the Plasma engine didn't spike heat in the same conditions.

On the craft below I have all four receivers activated at 100% reception with 3/4 connected to the relay network, all four tranceivers activated in relay mode, and an LV-909 Liquid Fuel engine on the craft. Waste heat is steady and manageable which is more in line with my expected behavior. Once I switch the LV-909 out for a Plasma Engine in the same conditions I get the massive spikes as described before even if the engine is disabled.

Immediately after taking this screenshot I started disabling my receivers for good measure. I disabled 1 with no issue. After disabling the second my temp started spiking immediately even though only 1 receiver was receiving power from the network. Here's the same craft again about 30 seconds later with 2/4 receivers disabled.

Is this expected? It seems a bit off to me. I would expect 4 active receivers to spike heat, but 2 active with 1 connected to the network to generate some heat, but not more than 3 active and connected.

Thanks again for being so active. Love this mod!

[FreeThinker]

Well it could be. TEchnically if a reciever is aimed right, it could recieve all power from that direction. If there are multiple reciever that can recieve a signal, they proportionaly recieve power depending on their aiming angle. This can be confusing when you switch off one of them and the others spike in power.

Edit, notice, KSPI Radiator currenly do not interact with stock heat in any way. If stock heat is spiking unexpectedly, it's propably a stock bug.

Edited July 16, 2015 by FreeThinker

[FreeThinker]

Update: I've confirmed that bit of script was the problem and fixed it with USI's current resource module. There's also an issue with the boiloff/containment system wherein if the tank goes dry containment cannot be enabled again. That appears to be associated with the cryostat module which is a bit out of my realm of knowledge, so I just dropped the cryo functionality and adjusted the stats to match Interstellar's own warp drives. Figured I'd let you/others with the problem know and save you the poking about.

I guess I have to disabled it all together now untill fixed because it only upsets or confuses people.

[Weywot8]

. . . . that he / she needs there head examined after there "friend" hit them in the back of it? j/k

I cant get my head around the particulars . . but there suggesting that the antimatter collector should be drawing power, as it would need to consume some to generate the proton fields that it would use to trap / collect the antimatter with out it going Kerbal (aka: Boom.)

.

I haven't build up the microwave infrastructure so based on the Interstellar Wiki antimatter is created by Science Labs - "up to 5GW, into antimatter at an extremely low efficiency rate of 0.5%. When fully powered, the lab will generate 2.78x10^(-4) mg antimatter/second or 24mg/day". Specifically, 1 unit antimatter is defined as 1 mg anti-hydrogen (anti-H).

Realism issues:

• anti-matter in orbit is actually anti-protons not anti-H. 1 anti-proton needs 1 anti-electron (also known as positrons, shorter to type:wink:) to make anti-H
  
• charged particle repulsion force >>> force of gravity for same mass. So 1 gram anti-protons would realistically go BOOM. 1kg would go metrically go MEGA-BOOM
  

However, anti-protons weigh 1836x more than positrons. So assuming perfect energy -> mass conversion, out of 5GW energy used to create anti-H, 4.9973GW goes to making anti-protons. If anti-proton's were collected free from orbit, all energy could be devoted to making positrons.

So, thoughts coming out of this on improvements for antimatter production/collection:

• potential efficiency increase of up to 1836x if science lab coupled to orbital antimatter collection capable of fulfilling all anti-positron needs
  
  • i.e. 'upgraded' science lab capable of producing approx. 44.064g of anti-matter a day with enough collectors collecting 44.04g anti-protons + 5GW power
    

  [*]orbital antimatter collector cannot work on it's own (gameplay simplification and no need to create new anti-proton resource. Use it or lose it)

Why no power requirement for orbital antimatter collector? Simplification of reality

• anti-protons generated at the LHC undego a series of cooling steps before being combined with positrons to make anti-H
  
  • each step looses anti-protons
    
  • the first step has an efficiency along the lines of 0.1%
    
  • orbital anti-protons are not so "hot" and can skip this step
    

  [*]using "cool" orbital anti-protons implies an additional 1000x efficiency gain - bleah:P

  [*]handwave this away - gains from this efficiency is used to power collection, storage and processing of anti-protons, though that's pushing it the other way

Did someone say "But I like how my mega-collector ship looks"?

• second cooling step has 6% efficiency
  
• 16.7x moar collectors!
  
  • nerf max collection rate of existing collectors by up to 16.7x times (or increase anti-proton requirement by 16.7X at science lab)
    

Add engineer requirement because all those superconducting magnets and linkages between orbital collectors-science lab need to be maintained somehow.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Weywot8

[FreeThinker]

. . . . that he / she needs there head examined after there "friend" hit them in the back of it? j/k

I cant get my head around the particulars . . but there suggesting that the antimatter collector should be drawing power, as it would need to consume some to generate the proton fields that it would use to trap / collect the antimatter with out it going Kerbal (aka: Boom.)

I guess what he means is that energy consumption should be 1836.152x less than power required to produce antimatter. The energy consumed will be used to produce the positron to match with all captured anti protons.

- - - Updated - - -

So, thoughts coming out of this on improvements for antimatter production/collection:

• potential efficiency increase of up to 1836x if science lab coupled to orbital antimatter collection capable of fulfilling all anti-positron needs
  
  • i.e. 'upgraded' science lab capable of producing approx. 44.064g of anti-matter a day with enough collectors collecting 44.04g anti-protons + 5GW power
    

  [*]orbital antimatter collector cannot work on it's own (gameplay simplification and no need to create new anti-proton resource. Use it or lose it)

This actualy sound like a good idea and would improve both realsim, gameplay balance and significance of the Science Lab

- - - Updated - - -

Did someone say "But I like how my mega-collector ship looks"?

• second cooling step has 6% efficiency
  
• 16.7x moar collectors!
  
  • nerf max collection rate of existing collectors by up to 16.7x times (or increase anti-proton requirement by 16.7X at science lab)
    

Add engineer requirement because all those superconducting magnets and linkages between orbital collectors-science lab need to be maintained somehow.

Why 16.7x times? Perhaps I can make the performance of the collectors depend on engeneer techlevel. higher skilled eneneers would result in higher efficency of the collector. The efficiency would also depend on the number of collectors and number of engineers. This would effectively mean the anti proton collectors run on engeneers.

Edited July 16, 2015 by FreeThinker

[Sacnoth]

So you're saying that you would always need to have kerbals on antimatter producing ships?

I'd prefer not to have my kerbals too close to such hazardous materials, besides I like my unmanned antimatter collector ships.

So I'd have to vote against it. I'm fine with how antimatter collection works right now.

Just my 2 cents.

[FreeThinker]

So you're saying that you would always need to have kerbals on antimatter producing ships?

I'd prefer not to have my kerbals too close to such hazardous materials, besides I like my unmanned antimatter collector ships.

No you don't, it would just be less efficient. So you should still be able to create your unmannded antimatter ships, it will not be as efficient as it used to be.

Edited July 16, 2015 by FreeThinker