KSP Interstellar Extended Continued Development Thread

[FreeThinker]

Regarding the solar power satelite stuff, what I want is to get 2.5GW received power anywhere for the vista so they're not going to help given I would need 25 at least, probably more like 30+ given losses etc. Not a practical solution now we can't get very near the sun. More realistic I guess though.

I think this is a stock issue. The latest Patch mentioned something about that solar panels are affected by skin temperature. This effectively means, that the Nearer to the sun, the hotter they become and therefore decreases the efficiency of the solar panels.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't ever look at cost in my career save to be honest. Contracts give loads of easy money so since about 2/3rds the way through the stock techs I've had >3m cash at all times and right now have something like 12million so cost is not going to stop me filling up on Tritium unless its 1m / unit or something. I think if you make those breeding changes, it will be even harder to figure out what a craft needs to launch with without accurate info in game.

I understand you objection, but simply blocking would hurt sandbox / leisure players as it would prevent them from playing as they would. Ideally there will be some sort of market which allows you to buy the hard to get resources with reputation points or science points. Ideally, it should allow you to return these points after you recover your vessel or alllow you to put it in a deposit, which you can trade on the market for a good prize. If you over-saturate the market, it will drop in price like on real market.

One thing I might implement this is to integrate the Resource Recovery Mod into KSPI

Edited July 18, 2015 by FreeThinker

[Hazelnut]

I think this is a stock issue. The latest Patch mentioned something about that solar panels are affected by skin temperature. This effectively means, that the Nearer to the sun, the hotter they become and therefore decreases the efficiency of the solar panels.

- - - Updated - - -

I understand you objection, but simply blocking would hurt sandbox / leisure players as it would prevent them from playing as they would. Ideally there will be some sort of market which allows you to buy the hard to get resources with reputation points or science points. Ideally, it should allow you to return these points after you recover your vessel or alllow you to put it in a deposit, which you can trade on the market for a good prize. If you over-saturate the market, it will drop in price like on real market.

One thing I might implement this is to integrate the Resource Recovery Mod into KSPI

Sounds quite complex to add, but it could work well. A simpler solution may be to have the restriction but allow it to be changed in config for casual players? Either that or raise the cost. I will have a look this evening and give feedback on what cost would make me think I should collect rather than buy given the amounts you can easily collect from contracts.

[FreeThinker]

Sounds quite complex to add, but it could work well. A simpler solution may be to have the restriction but allow it to be changed in config for casual players? Either that or raise the cost. I will have a look this evening and give feedback on what cost would make me think I should collect rather than buy given the amounts you can easily collect from contracts.

The problem with raising the cost is that it will also affect other mods that uses these resources. Initially, it Tritium costed $30,000 per gram, however this was too expensive according to other mod developers (see CRP discussion for details). Therefore we reduced to cost the best theoretical production cost.

Edited July 18, 2015 by FreeThinker

[dlrk]

What's the best way to integrate this with stock ISRU? Just delete the stock parts?

[Hazelnut]

Just tried the large atmosphere scoop for H2, and it seems to be bugged or I am doing it wrong... Most of the time the H2 collection doesn't activate. Deuterium does but H2 will not do anything. (yes I have some room)

I did get it working just once on a 200k Jool orbit (testing using hyperedit) and the rate was really slow 0.04 or something and since it didn't seem to be increased by time acceleration and Jool has the most H2 I cannot see how this would be useful. Maybe if it continues collection when the vessel is not focussed I could leave it for several days or something.

How do you use these things? Or should I just save the 1.2t of weight?

[FreeThinker]

Pure Hydrogen is very scares in Kerbin atmosphere. It's more abundant just above the atmosphere or a better strategy would be to get it by electrolysis from atmospheric water vapor, from water on the surface or from sea or lakes.

Oh, notice, storage of Hydrogen is in LqdHydrogen and not Hydrogen Gas. In the future I intend to make this more flexible

Edited July 19, 2015 by FreeThinker

[Hazelnut]

Pure Hydrogen in very scares in Kerbin atmosphere. It's more abundant just above the atmosphere or a better strategy would be to get it by electrolysis from atmospheric water vapor , from water in the ground or from sea or lakes.

I was at Jool, not Kerbin. I was hoping to refuel using Jool since it's atmosphere is largely Hydrogen. Can't get lower than 200k otherwise the ship explodes (stupid new heating to blame again) but should work at 200k orbit. So far it's only worked 1/4 times and at such a slow rate unaffected by time acceleration that unless I am doing it wrong makes these scoops useless. I figured I must be doing something wrong. :-)

EDIT: Yep, I have lots of LqdHydrogen tanks. I think I know why it worked once and not the other times... I freed up space in the only tank the scoop has direct access to! :-) (by switching off cryo for a few seconds and letting a bit boil offO

Still no idea how to actually use the 0.04 rate without time acceleration - will test switching away and if that doesnt work then I will dump the scoop I guess.

EDIT2: Okay got this sorted out now. Physical time acceleration (i.e. in atmosphere) doesn't speed up collection but normal vacuum time accel does. (I was a few meters under 200k) Looks like refueling at Jool should work nicely.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Hazelnut

[FreeThinker]

Well if you have a plasma engine on the vessel it will collect resource even if the vessel isn't focused

[bos]

Minor report: The names in Patches/SETI-KSPIextended-NamingScheme.cfg are pretty obsolete (e.g. thermal and charged-particle electric generators are still named 'large' and 'small'), so this could be confusing for SETI users.

SETI is not even doing this prefix naming scheme in the current releases (I think this was part of balancemod part which hasn't been updated since 0.90), so probably the file could just be disabled or deleted for now.

[Hazelnut]

So, I finalised my super ship 'Endeavour' and launched it towards Jool (5k m/s manouver FTW) to rescue the Kerbals who ran out of Tritium and Deuterium in the Dusty powered ship. This one has a scoop (see earlier post edit), AM collector and a ISRU so I should be able to refill everything except the Tritium, but that's bred in the AIM reactor so I have a tank of Lithium which I can't refill without help because this ship has no atmo capability. Main engines are 2 Vista's and Aux engine is a magnetic nozzle for when near other craft. All in all very happy with it.. probably spent over 16 hours making it and testing various things.

I just noticed something worrying however, more Tritium has been used than Deuterium after the escape burn! How can this be when the Vista uses same amount of each, nothing else uses Tritium, and Deuterium is used in the AIM reactor. I should have used more Deuterium, especially because the reactor should breed the Lithium into Tritium. I hope this is easily explained because I don't want to have to scrap this ship now I have launched it properly. (for a start it cost nearly 4mill) The reactor window flits between 0.00 and NaN for the Tritium breeding rate.

What's going on? Is AIM breeding broken? Do I need to put more Tritium on board?

[Txzeenath]

Hi,

I am encountering a little problem with the mod. First of all when I load up a vessel the game runs at 5 frames every 4 seconds, the radiators turn cyan and the KSP.log spams the following:

As the interstellar radiators are the only ones in the scene I would think it has something to do with this mod.

http://i.imgur.com/dh7q3Yd.png?1

Picture of the cyan radiators.

btw the mod installaton was runnig fine before the 1.04 update. As long there are no radiators in the scene everything is running nice past the 1.04 update.

best regards.

Getting the same error now myself. Ever find the cause?

[bos]

I just noticed something worrying however, more Tritium has been used than Deuterium after the escape burn! How can this be when the Vista uses same amount of each, nothing else uses Tritium, and Deuterium is used in the AIM reactor.

Probably the vista engine stole Deut from the AIM reactor's internal tank. That could explain if you see your cryostat has more Deut left than Trit. The reactor's consumption is insignificant compared to the engine's.

The reactor window flits between 0.00 and NaN for the Tritium breeding rate.

What's going on? Is AIM breeding broken? Do I need to put more Tritium on board?

Breed rate seems to be based on Thermal power only, so if all the ship has is a charged particle generator and no thermal power sink, it does not seem to breed Tritium. If I put a thermal electric generator on, it looks like it works okay. Maybe breed rate should be based on total power received?

// Thermal Power
double max_thermal_to_supply = Math.Max(MaximumThermalPower * TimeWarp.fixedDeltaTime, 0) * fuel_ratio;
double thermal_power_to_supply = max_thermal_to_supply;
double [B]thermal_power_received[/B] = supplyManagedFNResourceWithMinimum(thermal_power_to_supply, min_throttle, FNResourceManager.FNRESOURCE_THERMALPOWER);
double thermal_power_ratio = (1 - ChargedParticleRatio) > 0 ? thermal_power_received / max_thermal_to_supply : 0;
ongoing_thermal_power_f = (float)(thermal_power_received / TimeWarp.fixedDeltaTime);

// Total
double [B]total_power_received[/B] = thermal_power_received + charged_power_received;
total_power_per_frame = total_power_received;
double total_power_ratio = total_power_received / MaximumPower / TimeWarp.fixedDeltaTime;
ongoing_consumption_rate = (float)total_power_ratio;

.....

 if (breedtritium)
{
...
         // calculate current maximum litlium consumption
          double breed_rate = [B]thermal_power_received[/B] / TimeWarp.fixedDeltaTime / breedDivider / GameConstants.tritiumBreedRate;

Edited July 20, 2015 by bos

[DivisionByZero]

CKAN seems to be broken for this mod. Whenever I pick to install, it takes away any button to install.

[Cosmonauth]

I've experienced this issue for some other mods, and I think it's pretty common for CKAN, so it's not KSPIE problem.

[Hazelnut]

Probably the vista engine stole Deut from the AIM reactor's internal tank. That could explain if you see your cryostat has more Deut left than Trit. The reactor's consumption is insignificant compared to the engine's.

I'm talking total amount, not just in one cryostat. Just to be sure I wasn't being dumb I moved Trit&Deut so all cryo's are full except one so it was easy to see difference and I have definitely used about 10 more Tritium than Deuterium. So that's not it, any other ideas? I was actually starting to think AIM was breeding the wrong thing... it's a puzzle for sure.

Breed rate seems to be based on Thermal power only, so if all the ship has is a charged particle generator and no thermal power sink, it does not seem to breed Tritium. If I put a thermal electric generator on, it looks like it works okay. Maybe breed rate should be based on total power received?

I do have a thermal generator. I have one of each, but the Thermal isn't doing much most of the time. I need it to power the ship systems when I deactivate the particle generator and use the magnetic nozzle. I'll try deactivating the particle generator see if that does anything to breed rates.

Thanks for your reply.

Edited July 20, 2015 by Hazelnut

[FreeThinker]

Probably the vista engine stole Deut from the AIM reactor's internal tank. That could explain if you see your cryostat has more Deut left than Trit. The reactor's consumption is insignificant compared to the engine's.

Breed rate seems to be based on Thermal power only, so if all the ship has is a charged particle generator and no thermal power sink, it does not seem to breed Tritium. If I put a thermal electric generator on, it looks like it works okay. Maybe breed rate should be based on total power received?

// Thermal Power
double max_thermal_to_supply = Math.Max(MaximumThermalPower * TimeWarp.fixedDeltaTime, 0) * fuel_ratio;
double thermal_power_to_supply = max_thermal_to_supply;
double [B]thermal_power_received[/B] = supplyManagedFNResourceWithMinimum(thermal_power_to_supply, min_throttle, FNResourceManager.FNRESOURCE_THERMALPOWER);
double thermal_power_ratio = (1 - ChargedParticleRatio) > 0 ? thermal_power_received / max_thermal_to_supply : 0;
ongoing_thermal_power_f = (float)(thermal_power_received / TimeWarp.fixedDeltaTime);

// Total
double [B]total_power_received[/B] = thermal_power_received + charged_power_received;
total_power_per_frame = total_power_received;
double total_power_ratio = total_power_received / MaximumPower / TimeWarp.fixedDeltaTime;
ongoing_consumption_rate = (float)total_power_ratio;

.....

 if (breedtritium)
{
...
         // calculate current maximum litlium consumption
          double breed_rate = [B]thermal_power_received[/B] / TimeWarp.fixedDeltaTime / breedDivider / GameConstants.tritiumBreedRate;

This is indeed a major flaw for Charged Particle Reactors. It's uterly unrealsitic that a fusion reactor can produce 50% charged particles for energy production and 0% thermal heat. The Utilisation should be the maximum of both. Although this allows you to breed tritium more easility, a consequence is that a lot more thermalheat and therefore wasteheat is generated. But on the other hand also makes D-He3 fusion, and He3-He3 fusion much more intresting as most or all of there energy is charged particles, meaning, much less wasteheat is generated. Also since, the percentage of neutrons emmited in a fusion reactor, has a direct impact on the percentage charged particles, the extra wasteheat is also good anolog for all the Neutron radiaton you have to deal with.

In the next release, this will be corrected allong with rebalance of tritium breeding which currently breeds the same amount of tritium, independant of the amount of neutrons produced in the fusion/fission reaction

Edited July 20, 2015 by FreeThinker

[Hazelnut]

I'm talking total amount, not just in one cryostat. Just to be sure I wasn't being dumb I moved Trit&Deut so all cryo's are full except one so it was easy to see difference and I have definitely used about 10 more Tritium than Deuterium. So that's not it, any other ideas? I was actually starting to think AIM was breeding the wrong thing... it's a puzzle for sure.

Well tonight when I loaded my save to play, the Trit & Deut levels were even again. Now it was late and I was tired, but I'm fairly sure I didn't imagine it. Some kind of wierdness. Anyway, guess there's no mystery to solve after all.

I do have a thermal generator. I have one of each, but the Thermal isn't doing much most of the time. I need it to power the ship systems when I deactivate the particle generator and use the magnetic nozzle. I'll try deactivating the particle generator see if that does anything to breed rates.

Yes, when I deactivate the particle generator I do get some breeding - unfortunately far too little to be useful while the reactor is ticking over just keeping the cryostats powered. I need the particle gen to run the double vista's, so no breeding while using them. I will have to run the magnetic nozzle quite a bit to get some Tritium bred I think then. This engine was only ever intended to help get near other craft without killing everyone with the vista's and only gives 192kN thrust at 100% which is rather low for a big ship. Still, it can be done which is good.

Very happy with this craft, it has 45 km/s dV at 100% thrust with the vista's and more if less throttle is used. Means it can pretty much go anywhere and use inefficient transfer windows if needed. Since it can refuel at gas giants or moons with surface water & has an AM collector, it should be able to keep going until the Lithium/Tritium runs out - so at some point it will have to return to Kerbin Station. The main weakness is it doesn't do atmospheres at all. None of the engines work in atmo! :-)

[ss8913]

I'm not sure if this is a KSPIE problem but I'm going to post this here in case anyone has any clues or has seen it. Shielded docking ports. Closed, they're fine. Open one and the heat spikes to 200% of maximum and it instantly explodes. Can replicate with just a command pod and a shielded docking port. Open docking port and *boom* - going to also post this on the DRE and FAR forums as it might be coming from there...

[Hazelnut]

I'm not sure if this is a KSPIE problem but I'm going to post this here in case anyone has any clues or has seen it. Shielded docking ports. Closed, they're fine. Open one and the heat spikes to 200% of maximum and it instantly explodes. Can replicate with just a command pod and a shielded docking port. Open docking port and *boom* - going to also post this on the DRE and FAR forums as it might be coming from there...

Hmm, doubt it's KSPI because I use them with it just fine.

[lurkoholic]

CKAN seems to be broken for this mod. Whenever I pick to install, it takes away any button to install.

You probably have a mod that is marked incompatible with KSPI or one of its required mods. For me, Real Fuels prevents me from installing KSPI because it is marked incompatible (conflicts) with Interstellar Fuel Switch. Using CKAN v1.10.3, the conflicting mod (Interstellar Fuel Switch) is highlighted red when I try to install it with Real Fuels.

[DivisionByZero]

You probably have a mod that is marked incompatible with KSPI or one of its required mods. For me, Real Fuels prevents me from installing KSPI because it is marked incompatible (conflicts) with Interstellar Fuel Switch. Using CKAN v1.10.3, the conflicting mod (Interstellar Fuel Switch) is highlighted red when I try to install it with Real Fuels.

Well, I have real fuels, so this might explain it. It is, indeed, turning red. However, I don't have any problem (so far) with the two mods. I'm not sure where the incompatibility is or if it's just a formal "stop over-writing my stuff" sort of thing...

[lurkoholic]

Well, I have real fuels, so this might explain it. It is, indeed, turning red. However, I don't have any problem (so far) with the two mods. I'm not sure where the incompatibility is or if it's just a formal "stop over-writing my stuff" sort of thing...

Right, I think Interstellar Fuel Switch and Real Fuels conflicted over filling the fuel tanks with non-stock fuels. Maybe that no longer happens? I plan to just install KSPI-E the "hard way":), and try it without IFS if necessary.

[FreeThinker]

Very happy with this craft, it has 45 km/s dV at 100% thrust with the vista's and more if less throttle is used. Means it can pretty much go anywhere and use inefficient transfer windows if needed. Since it can refuel at gas giants or moons with surface water & has an AM collector, it should be able to keep going until the Lithium/Tritium runs out - so at some point it will have to return to Kerbin Station. The main weakness is it doesn't do atmospheres at all. None of the engines work in atmo! :-)

Glad to hear that. Regarding fuel, have you considered other fusion modes? You could use pure Deteurium Fusion Mode to generate power. It's a good solution when lithium runs out.

- - - Updated - - -

Edited July 21, 2015 by FreeThinker

[Hazelnut]

Glad to hear that. Regarding fuel, have you considered other fusion modes? You could use pure Deteurium Fusion Mode to generate power. It's a good solution when lithium runs out.

I know how to change modes on the fusion reactors, but I didn't realise that the AIM had other modes. I will take another look. When the Lithium runs out I can't breed tritium any more and the vistas need the Tritium. It can still move using the magnetic nozzle, but it's kinda limping along by that point. :-)

[FreeThinker]

I know how to change modes on the fusion reactors, but I didn't realise that the AIM had other modes. I will take another look. When the Lithium runs out I can't breed tritium any more and the vistas need the Tritium. It can still move using the magnetic nozzle, but it's kinda limping along by that point. :-)

Sorry, for the confusion but the AIM currently does not support other modes, this might change in the future