KSP Interstellar Extended Continued Development Thread

[tmbomber]

Nice, this you also use the magnetic nozzle time acceleration, or did you perform all maneuvers at real time?

Yep... Time acceleration.

Had to dead recon maneuvers because Hohmann transfers assume instant changes to deltaV, not accelerating half way there, turning and decelerating the rest of the way.

I asked a girl I know who has a degree in astrophysics if there was a different kind of transfer that would take advantage of continuous burn engines.

She said she had something, but I haven't gotten details yet.

[Profit-]

I need some help with the heat management. I have Interstellar Extended and Deadly Reentry, FAR, procedural parts, USI, KIS, infernal robotics, and several smaller mods. I read the wiki and had no need for radiators with any small vehicles made of mainly small stock parts. Went to the moons and collected all the science, no radiators needed.

Then I launched a large station station made of a lot of USI parts, with Rhino engines and no radiators. Engines dont overheat but the USI parts explode within a few hours after leaving atmosphere. I put on different kinds of radiators but didn't fix the problem.

I gave up on the station then tried to build a medium sized ship to launch interplanetary probes with Skipper engines. The engines keep exploding within a couple minutes, with different kinds of radiators on the procedural fuel tank. Strangely, Mainsail engines didnt need radiators and didn't overheat.

Something that seems off is that waste heat is mentioned in the wiki, and I see the green bar in some parts. But it's always 0. The K and MW values on radiators rarely change and if they do it's so very little. It also seems like the temp on adjacent parts conduct heat extremely slowly, so maybe very little of the heat is reaching the radiators.

Anyone have ideas on what's wrong? I'm thinking maybe I installed the mods incorrectly or have a bugged copy of KSP.

There are a lot of mods that change the way KSP works in a deep way.

Deadly reentry is especially notorious for things blowing up... (obviously)

I also know there are Stock radiators and KSP-I Radiators perhaps you need to add the stock ones as they handle a different type of heat.

[holedoor]

There are a lot of mods that change the way KSP works in a deep way.

Deadly reentry is especially notorious for things blowing up... (obviously)

I also know there are Stock radiators and KSP-I Radiators perhaps you need to add the stock ones as they handle a different type of heat.

Well I just spent some time testing different stock engines with different radiators. Every stock engine will explode, although the skipper does it in 2 minutes when the others take maybe 8-10. None of the KSPIE radiators do very much, only increase a few K. The only ones that help are the deployable stock radiators. Their temperatures increase and 1 medium radiator extend the time it takes for engines to blow up by maybe 10-20%, but their waste heat bars still don't move. Was able to get engines to run indefinitely with infinite fuel and enough stock radiators. Also tried more mixing and matching radiators with the my USI station and it's kind of similar result. I made a stock station and it didn't need any radiators at all. So I'm assuming you are right, that the group of mods are messing with the heat system. Or I installed them in a way that made them conflict.

Are you using the extendable radiators, afaik they are the only ones that actively pump heat from other parts on your craft to disperse the heat away from your craft.

waste heat is a resource used to simulate the problems of heat buildup over a long period of time, mainly from reactors and microwave sources... if your waste heat is zero, that is a good thing, it means that your radiators are enough to deal with that issue. Not too sure what that green bar is about, unless it's the squad heat mechanic bars you mean? squad heat mechanic is mostly dealt with by extendable radiators, or install a mod called Heat Management at http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/118189 it has support for both KSPIE waste heat and squad heat mechanics in it

if none of this is helpful then please supply more information, pics/logs so that we can advice better.

I will see if Heat Management makes a difference. It might be the USI parts that are the main problem for me since they just overheat so fast even though they are inert parts like a storage container. I'll go search through their thread.

Update: I tried bringing some USI Kolonisation parts into orbit 1 at a time on stock rockets and found that the OKS Hub connector 6way part slowly increases in temperature and heats up everything else at the same time. So I don't think this is an Interstellar bug, will ask in USI Kolonisation thread.

Edited October 16, 2015 by holedoor

[FreeThinker]

Are you using the extendable radiators, afaik they are the only ones that actively pump heat from other parts on your craft to disperse the heat away from your craft.

This is actualy an oversight, In the next patch I will add the active stock cooling to all kspi radiators

[okder]

More realistic air intake, would be the best solution, but for now I want a quick and easy solution

Instead of making it impossible, I think I will just reduce the efficency of Atmosphere as a electric propellant.

well at least fix documentation table on first page, because thermal turbojet gives less than 10% efficiency on high speed (>1600m/s), 1-5% on >2000m/s.

(i.e. it's eating all reactor power but supply low thrust, and using low intake atmosphere, when a lot of intake atmosphere is available)

Edited October 16, 2015 by okder

[Profit-]

well at least fix documentation table on first page, because thermal turbojet gives less than 10% efficiency on high speed (>1600m/s), 1-5% on >2000m/s.

(i.e. it's eating all reactor power but supply low thrust, and using low intake atmosphere, when a lot of intake atmosphere is available)

You are not using the large fusion reactors are you? They were changed to produce less thrust and more electricity somehow, if you are you want to switch to the inertial confinement ones.

[okder]

You are not using the large fusion reactors are you? They were changed to produce less thrust and more electricity somehow, if you are you want to switch to the inertial confinement ones.

it's out of efficiency topic becouse maximum thrust is 2700KN(~500-650m/s), while on 2150m/s it gets <100KN with same reactor load (100%). (atm. intake still is not zero)

Edited October 16, 2015 by okder

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

@FreeThinker

I'm doing the fusion reactor size test now on a vehicle.

Mass before flight with an Inertial Confinement Fusion Reactor is 27.0 tons on the nose with KSP's Engineer's Report.

RCS Build Aid calls it 13.455 tons wet.

Mech Jeb calls it 9.757 tons.

Going to in-flight...

The only thing I have that tells me mass here is Mech Jeb, and that mass is 9.76 tons.

Returning to the SPH where I'm building:

Mech Jeb and RCS Build aide show the same values as before... The Engineer's report however now reads 33.7 tons. A 6 ton gain.

When I rescale the reactor at this point, the Engineer's report doesn't budge a milligram, even when I rescale it to its maximum possible size. The same goes for the thermal turbojet and thermal electric generator that's attached to it. The Engineer's Report states the mass to be 33.7 tons for the vehicle.

If I alter the B9 Procedural Wing parts I have on the vehicle, such as mass-strength values for them, I get a mass change. So the problem seems to be the KSPI parts in particular. I cannot tell if this mass value is carrying over into flight or not, since as reported the build aid and mech jeb aren't reporting the same masses.

[FreeThinker]

From my experience, kSP Engineering report get confused after re scaling, but after you go in flight, everything gains the mass it is supposed to. Have you taken note of the part mass on every reactor and most other rescalable part. I added t because KSP Engineering report was giving me nonsense values

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

From my experience, kSP Engineering report get confused after re scaling, but after you go in flight, everything gains the mass it is supposed to. Have you taken note of the part mass on every reactor and most other rescalable part. I added t because KSP Engineering report was giving me nonsense values

Did you add it on the last update? Because I only got to testing yesterday and didn't grab that update.

[SciMan]

Yep... Time acceleration.

Had to dead recon maneuvers because Hohmann transfers assume instant changes to deltaV, not accelerating half way there, turning and decelerating the rest of the way.

I asked a girl I know who has a degree in astrophysics if there was a different kind of transfer that would take advantage of continuous burn engines.

She said she had something, but I haven't gotten details yet.

I don't have a degree in astrophysics, but I can think of a few different types of continuous-thrust maneuvers:

Craft with Ion engines IRL can do a "spiral" trajectory to get out of the gravity well of a planet or moon if higher thrust propulsion is not available. This is actually very simple, with the craft just thrusting prograde until on an escape trajectory. Because the low thrust of ion engines means it takes so long, it's not exactly critical to start this type of maneuver at any specific point in the orbit, with corrections instead being made by vectoring the craft's thrust slightly off of prograde. It's probably not the most efficient because it can't take much advantage from the Oberth effect, but that doesn't matter as much with ion propulsion. IRL wearing out the acceleration grids on the ion thrusters is often more of a problem than running out of fuel!

After escaping the gravity well of a planet, Ion engines use what I like to call an "accelerated Hohmann transfer". This is basically a normal Hohmann transfer orbit, but it uses the low continuous thrust of an ion engine to speed up the transfer. This is the type of transfer that those "40 days to mars" proposals use. I don't have much information on this type of transfer, to be honest.

The last one that I know of is called a brachistochrone trajectory. This is the trajectory used by "torch-ships" in "hard" sci-fi, usually when the setting limits ships to only traveling slower than light. It's far faster than any kind of Hohmann transfer orbit, but it requires a propulsion system that has both (relatively) high thrust, and very high specific impulse.

Brachistochrone trajectories are quite a bit easier to plan and fly than most other transfer trajectories.

Basically, point your ship at where the target will be in a few days, thrust until you're halfway there, turn the ship around, and thrust until you reach the destination.

Adjustments will be needed depending on thrust level, relative velocity between start and destination points, distance between start and destination points, and anything that might need to be avoided along the way.

In KSPI, the magnetic nozzles are best used for Brachistochrone transfers, because they allow you to engage time warp while thrusting.

This also makes them great for asteroid tugs. And they only get better with larger asteroids.

With an E-class asteroid, being able to time warp while thrusting has the side benefit of getting rid of any wobble that the ship might have experienced from putting hundreds of kN thru a single Klaw connection, and it doesn't require that much thrust in the first place. Of course actually getting the thing into orbit is a challenge, but that should be solvable by using the asteroid as a heatshield and taking several gentle aerobraking passes.

[Nansuchao]

Is it possible to create a kind of Transfer Windows Planner with these kind of maneuvers instead of the Hohmann?

[FreeThinker]

Well, the plan was to integrate with the Solar Sail navigation tool which can also be used for very high Isp engines.

[Thorbane]

I'm pretty sure the lag isn't caused by KSPI but by other mods that do extensive calculations and vessel, analysis like FAR, Mechjeb, or other tools. What I have these tools installed, I often notice slow down as well.But without them installed, no sow down at all. Also note the actually amount of code execute in the VAB is very little (less than 1%), especially for radiators. But radiators due to their dimensions and shape could have a big impact in airflow ....

It's very odd, in sandbox mode the pause I get when attaching radiators and other things goes away.

[okder]

[TABLE=class: cms_table_grid, width: 1600]

[TR]

[TD]Helium3 Catalyzed D-D Fusion

[/TD]

[TD]Fusion[/TD]

[TD]MCF *[/TD]

[TD]Advanced Fusion[/TD]

[TD]yes[/TD]

[TD]211%[/TD]

[TD]0.693[/TD]

[TD]95%[/TD]

[TD]4.472x[/TD]

[TD]LqdDeteurium[/TD]

[TD]Helium4 + Tritium[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

still does not have tritium as product, as documentation states.

[FreeThinker]

Good find, It will be fixed next patch

[Nansuchao]

It's very odd, in sandbox mode the pause I get when attaching radiators and other things goes away.

The same for me. Almost 10 seconds of lag on loading in science mode, 0 lag in sandbox.

[FreeThinker]

The same for me. Almost 10 seconds of lag on loading in science mode, 0 lag in sandbox.

10 seconds? Wait a second. What is the exact moment you have the lag and what kind of HDD to you have KSP installed? I'm starting to think I'm not suffering any lag because my KSP is installed on a SDD. The moment a radiator part it instanced, it does a Technode check based on the exciting save. When you save is large and you don't have it located on an SDD I can imagine it can take a long time while on a SDD you never notice any lag at all. Technically, the same test is done for all parts but radiators are often placed in pairs, making the problem bigger ...

Edited October 18, 2015 by FreeThinker

[okder]

10 seconds? Wait a second. What is the exact moment you have the lag and what kind of HDD to you have KSP installed?

KSPIe + mechjeb + normal hdd

-> 6 engines with mirroring loading > 2 min i did even send log 2 month ago or so.

[FreeThinker]

Version 1.5.13 for Kerbal Space Program 1.0.4

Released on 2015-10-18

• Added Super Capacitator which has the ability to charge electric Megajoules, but will lose charge over time.
  
• Magnetic Confinement Fusion Reactor can be re-started using charged power in Super Capacitator
  
• Computer Core requires Megajoules and has build in Super Capacitator
  
• Inline Radiator is renamed to "Inline Radiator Reaction Wheel" and contain a very strong Reaction Wheel which requires Megajoules
  
• Thermal Nozzle gains the ability to run in Ramjet Mode
  
• Increased Mass and storage capacity Science Lab
  
• Fixed Slowdown in VAB when adding many upgradable parts (like radiators).
  

New Super Capacitator made by SilverSilver

Edited October 18, 2015 by FreeThinker

[Nansuchao]

Main HD on a new pc (more or less 2 months old). It's not a high end machine but it works really well. I have to say I have lag on a very heavy modded install, but just in career, with every KSPI parts.

Also notice that if you have a basic VISTA, KER sees it as upgraded, calculating the thrust.

[FreeThinker]

Main HD on a new pc (more or less 2 months old). It's not a high end machine but it works really well. I have to say I have lag on a very heavy modded install, but just in career, with every KSPI parts.

Also notice that if you have a basic VISTA, KER sees it as upgraded, calculating the thrust.

Well, I'm quite hopeful the new version fixes most lag issues caused by tech node checks. I found a new way to verify if a tech-node is researched which does not require loading the save file. The file loading itself might be reason some people experience lag while other not, like when KSP is installed on an SDD.

[Nansuchao]

Thanks. On a side note, have you tried the RealPlume config? Can i make the Pull Request to Felger?

EDIT: The lag is gone, this is beautiful.

This time I made it big (still in progress)

Edited October 18, 2015 by Nansuchao

[FreeThinker]

Thanks. On a side note, have you tried the RealPlume config? Can i make the Pull Request to Felger?

Sorry, I haven't How to test it?

[Nansuchao]

No need to ask for sorry, when you have time and will. ;-)