KSP Interstellar Extended Continued Development Thread

[Udeis]

Oh, and swapping fuels didn't help either

[HerrGeneral]

Hmm. I'm attempting to transmit the data from a full Interstellar science lab (the one that can hold 1000 science and 10000 data). However, the antenna just keeps going to 100%, then restarting from zero without stopping- it doesn't actually give me the 1000 science. I've tried aborting the transmission, leaving and coming back, and a few other things- but it still won't work. The ingame log says this:

" [Error]: [R&D]: No Science Subject found with id sciencelab@Kerbin "

[Profit-]

Hmm. I'm attempting to transmit the data from a full Interstellar science lab (the one that can hold 1000 science and 10000 data). However, the antenna just keeps going to 100%, then restarting from zero without stopping- it doesn't actually give me the 1000 science. I've tried aborting the transmission, leaving and coming back, and a few other things- but it still won't work. The ingame log says this:

" [Error]: [R&D]: No Science Subject found with id sciencelab@Kerbin "

I just transmitted from over eve. Worked just fine for me.

*edit: received science as well.

[HerrGeneral]

I tried moving it into orbit around the Mun and it doesn't work there either. I wonder if that particular vessel is just bugged?

[Profit-]

I tried moving it into orbit around the Mun and it doesn't work there either. I wonder if that particular vessel is just bugged?

it is possible, I have seen that same behavior in stock KSP I cannot remember how I created the condition or how I fixed it.. think it might have been starting the transmission from an antenna and then switching vessels or something but I never exactly tracked it down.

EDIT According to someone with the stock science lab who had the same problem:

"I had this same problem. Had a roving science lab on Mun that was full of science like a thanksgiving turkey, it would transmit to 100% and then just start over again. Sometimes I would leave it to go check on another ship and come back to try it again to find it stuck etc. I fixed it by sending chauffeuringineer Bill out with a KAS wrench, removed the antenna, and re-attached it. Worked like a charm after that. I have KIS, KAS, Planetshine, and EVE installed mods and that's it."

Edited November 3, 2015 by Profit-

[Nansuchao]

I just transmitted from over eve. Worked just fine for me.

http://s3.postimg.org/yqoeab69v/image.png

*edit: received science as well.

Beautiful ship. Just out of curiosity, what is that red laser on the right side?

[FreeThinker]

Beautiful Indeed. It also appears to consist of many parts. How does it perform?

[HerrGeneral]

it is possible, I have seen that same behavior in stock KSP I cannot remember how I created the condition or how I fixed it.. think it might have been starting the transmission from an antenna and then switching vessels or something but I never exactly tracked it down.

EDIT According to someone with the stock science lab who had the same problem:

"I had this same problem. Had a roving science lab on Mun that was full of science like a thanksgiving turkey, it would transmit to 100% and then just start over again. Sometimes I would leave it to go check on another ship and come back to try it again to find it stuck etc. I fixed it by sending chauffeuringineer Bill out with a KAS wrench, removed the antenna, and re-attached it. Worked like a charm after that. I have KIS, KAS, Planetshine, and EVE installed mods and that's it."

I'll try this then and see if it works.

[Profit-]

Beautiful Indeed. It also appears to consist of many parts. How does it perform?

That is my Interstellar Seed ship. It is an amalgum of KSPI-E, Exoplanatary Launch Pads, and Civilian Population, with some scansat components. It carries enough materials that at the destination it can make Small landers that carry people down to the surface and build colonies. I was giving it a test run above eve. Performance is abysmal, about 20-30% normal game speed. I have one that is welded that works much better.

I actually have a shot of it being built with exoplanetary launch pads and my Heavy Shipyard.

http://postimg.org/image/a1qozfzjb/full/

*forgot the red lasers: they are part of the exoplanetary launchpads and they supposedly are orbital metal detectors. They actually do not work though

Edited November 4, 2015 by Profit-

[Nansuchao]

Good luck turning this, probably it has some wobble. I was ever interested in KSPI-E and Civilian Population. Do they work well together?

[Profit-]

Good luck turning this, probably it has some wobble. I was ever interested in KSPI-E and Civilian Population. Do they work well together?

Actually it works really well except for the main engine is fairly under powered. (You will note the shipyard below it has 9 MHD engines and with water as a fuel it lifted the assembly into space without issue except it was a long burn) I changed the tweakscale limitations and the next version fly's without issue, and with much better framerate because I welded a large number of parts.

KSPI-E and Civilian population go together like cookie dough and chocolate chips. They fantastically compliment each other. The only minor quibble is Liquid oxygen cannot be used as CivPop Oxygen.

*Edit: a reason it may not have the extreme wobble is I run with KerbalJointReinforcement. Never tried this without that mod.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Profit-

[Nansuchao]

Well, I don't suggest to remove KJR from KSP never...

Thanks for the tip about Civilian Population, I would like to try it soon.

[Profit-]

Well, I don't suggest to remove KJR from KSP never...

Thanks for the tip about Civilian Population, I would like to try it soon.

Always Welcome =)

[Nansuchao]

I've found a little issue with the Throttle of the Plasma Thruster. If they're scaled down from the stock size, also at 10/20% of throttle they give an incorrect thrust, near the 100%.

BTW congratulations, this is by far the less bugged Interstellar I've ever used...

[ss8913]

I noticed something the other night... I made a Mk2 spaceplane, and forgot to put heat radiators on it. Then I flew it and didn't realize I forgot the radiators. Checked the resources panel, wasteheat is at 0. This thing has about 400+ gigawatts of antimatter power on it and the Thermal helper in the SPH is deep deep in the red - while mk2 cargo bays are in fact radiators, they're not radiating near enough heat for these reactors. However the plane never gets hot. Wasteheat never goes above 0 actually. So, somehow or another, stock mk2 cargo bays are hyper-efficient radiators... The mk3 bays do not do this, only the mk2 bays.

I ran a couple more tests, used different reactors, made a few different planes.. the common denominator is the mk2 cargo bays (any size).

[Profit-]

Youtube killed it's quality, however I have a dancing spaceship.... On a side note, radiators I think have a bit of a funny collision mesh.

[Nansuchao]

The Kraken is strong in that one (cit. Kerman Vader)

[zebreck]

I've found that MechJeb is completely unreliable for calculating the Dv or TWR of reactor/thermal nozzle based designs. It will tell me things like my TWR is 0 while i'm accelerating into orbit or that my total Dv is 167 and increasing while I burn to the Mun. Is there some modification I could make or a different mod to use to get accurate TWR and Dv numbers on reactor/thermal nozzle designs?

[Profit-]

I've found that MechJeb is completely unreliable for calculating the Dv or TWR of reactor/thermal nozzle based designs. It will tell me things like my TWR is 0 while i'm accelerating into orbit or that my total Dv is 167 and increasing while I burn to the Mun. Is there some modification I could make or a different mod to use to get accurate TWR and Dv numbers on reactor/thermal nozzle designs?

LONG standing bug, because the engines do not have a constant ISP.

[Profit-]

@freethinker I am having problems with convection not working on my craft. I am not 100% sure but I think the bug may be this:

*edit it was not this. I observed it a little closer and fixed the problem in a pull request.

"var conv_power_dissip = pressure * delta_temp * CurrentRadiatorArea * rad_const_h / 1e6f * TimeWarp.fixedDeltaTime * convectiveBonus;"

Maybe should be "float conv_power_dissip = pressure * delta_temp * CurrentRadiatorArea * rad_const_h / 1e6f * TimeWarp.fixedDeltaTime * convectiveBonus;"

but i have to admit I only have barest of mod programming, I dont know what .cs is or how to compile it.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Profit-

[Thorbane]

Youtube killed it's quality, however I have a dancing spaceship.... On a side note, radiators I think have a bit of a funny collision mesh.

It could also be the legs clipping into the tanks around the base.

[SciMan]

LONG standing bug, because the engines do not have a constant ISP.

It's not non-constant ISP, tho that does make the problem worse.

The really big confuser is that KSPI changes it's engines MAX THRUST constantly.

Here's why this confuses MechJeb so reliably:

Say a MechJeb controlled ship has an engine that can produce 1000 kN.

MechJeb wants 500 kN.

So MechJeb calculates: (500 / 1000 = 0.5 = 1/2 throttle)

MechJeb sets the throttle to 1/2 of max, expecting to get the 500 kN it asked for.

Problem is, this is a KSPI engine, and now it reports it can put out 1500 kN.

MechJeb recalculates to compensate: (500 / 750 = 0.667 = 1/3 throttle)

MechJeb sets the throttle to 1/3 of max, expecting the 500 kN it asked for, again.

Problem is, this is a KSPI engine, and now it reports it can put out 1750 kN.

MechJeb recalculates again... and the cycle continues until the autopilot is shut off, the ship crashes, or the maneuver is complete.

If this is a landing autopilot, this results in the engine being on at most 1/2 the time, and at who knows what effective throttle level.

Basically, MechJeb can't hit a moving target because it doesn't have a PID on the throttle.

This moving target is created because the engines compute max thrust based on at least one value that is dependent on the throttle position. Changing the throttle position changes the maximum reported thrust, and MechJeb isn't equipped to deal with non-linear throttle relationships.

On a related note, plasma thrusters shouldn't display "0 kN" as their reported max thrust if the throttle is at 0% (this changes to the correct value as soon as the throttle is open even 0.001%).

A 100hp engine doesn't become a 150hp engine because someone let up on the gas pedal. Rocket engines don't change max thrust because the throttle position changed, either.

This behaviour is unphysical, irrational, and not internally self-consistent. And by that I mean it makes as much sense as orangebroomstickcroutons.

Edited November 6, 2015 by SciMan

[Profit-]

It could also be the legs clipping into the tanks around the base.

It was carfully designed to not clip with them.. However it was clipping with the landing legs a little... I adjusted their position so they kinda floated and it fixed that problem.

- - - Updated - - -

It's not non-constant ISP, tho that does make the problem worse.

The really big confuser is that KSPI changes it's engines MAX THRUST constantly.

Here's why this confuses MechJeb so reliably:

Say a MechJeb controlled ship has an engine that can produce 1000 kN.

MechJeb wants 500 kN.

So MechJeb calculates: (500 / 1000 = 0.5 = 1/2 throttle)

MechJeb sets the throttle to 1/2 of max, expecting to get the 500 kN it asked for.

Problem is, this is a KSPI engine, and now it reports it can put out 1500 kN.

MechJeb recalculates to compensate: (500 / 750 = 0.667 = 1/3 throttle)

MechJeb sets the throttle to 1/3 of max, expecting the 500 kN it asked for, again.

Problem is, this is a KSPI engine, and now it reports it can put out 1750 kN.

MechJeb recalculates again... and the cycle continues until the autopilot is shut off, the ship crashes, or the maneuver is complete.

If this is a landing autopilot, this results in the engine being on at most 1/2 the time, and at who knows what effective throttle level.

Basically, MechJeb can't hit a moving target because it doesn't have a PID on the throttle.

This moving target is created because the engines compute max thrust based on at least one value that is dependent on the throttle position. Changing the throttle position changes the maximum reported thrust, and MechJeb isn't equipped to deal with non-linear throttle relationships.

On a related note, plasma thrusters shouldn't display "0 kN" as their reported max thrust if the throttle is at 0% (this changes to the correct value as soon as the throttle is open even 0.001%).

A 100hp engine doesn't become a 150hp engine because someone let up on the gas pedal. Rocket engines don't change max thrust because the throttle position changed, either.

This behaviour is unphysical, irrational, and not internally self-consistent. And by that I mean it makes as much sense as orangebroomstickcroutons.

ahh... I had kinda known that but yeah I didnt think it all the way through. the other thing is with the electrical engines the electrical charge they can receive can change in many situations.

[ABZB]

It's not non-constant ISP, tho that does make the problem worse.

The really big confuser is that KSPI changes it's engines MAX THRUST constantly.

Here's why this confuses MechJeb so reliably:

Say a MechJeb controlled ship has an engine that can produce 1000 kN.

MechJeb wants 500 kN.

So MechJeb calculates: (500 / 1000 = 0.5 = 1/2 throttle)

MechJeb sets the throttle to 1/2 of max, expecting to get the 500 kN it asked for.

Problem is, this is a KSPI engine, and now it reports it can put out 1500 kN.

MechJeb recalculates to compensate: (500 / 750 = 0.667 = 1/3 throttle)

MechJeb sets the throttle to 1/3 of max, expecting the 500 kN it asked for, again.

Problem is, this is a KSPI engine, and now it reports it can put out 1750 kN.

MechJeb recalculates again... and the cycle continues until the autopilot is shut off, the ship crashes, or the maneuver is complete.

If this is a landing autopilot, this results in the engine being on at most 1/2 the time, and at who knows what effective throttle level.

Basically, MechJeb can't hit a moving target because it doesn't have a PID on the throttle.

This moving target is created because the engines compute max thrust based on at least one value that is dependent on the throttle position. Changing the throttle position changes the maximum reported thrust, and MechJeb isn't equipped to deal with non-linear throttle relationships.

On a related note, plasma thrusters shouldn't display "0 kN" as their reported max thrust if the throttle is at 0% (this changes to the correct value as soon as the throttle is open even 0.001%).

A 100hp engine doesn't become a 150hp engine because someone let up on the gas pedal. Rocket engines don't change max thrust because the throttle position changed, either.

This behaviour is unphysical, irrational, and not internally self-consistent. And by that I mean it makes as much sense as orangebroomstickcroutons.

BUT they do - a lot of the KSPI engines have some inverse relationship between thrust and isp, and the max thrills the per physics tick changes as a function of a number of factors.

If3chjeb is indeed working as you described, what is needed is a special KSPI modul to handle PIDs for these wngines e, like they have for FAR or that gimbal module. That would need some collaboration between here and the mechjeb people -why don't you suggest it to them on their thread?

[Dangerous_Beans]

have you considered adding a nuclear salt water engine? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_salt-water_rocket

it could use the existing water and uranium nitride nano-particle resources rather than adding a new resources (a post-mix rocket rather than a pre-mix rocket )

they sound like an interesting high thrust, high isp option, similar to the VISTA, with the benefits of having water as a propellent rather than hydrogen. however i can't see how you would throttle the engine much; there needs to be a minimum amount of fissionable material for the chain reaction, and there needs to be enough propellent flow to keep the rocket cool since it uses open cycle cooling.

i'm not sure it would be conductive to having a gimbal either, if i had a pipe with a constant nuclear explosion going off in it i think i would want to be cautious about turning it.

there is also no way to use it to produce power as far as i can see.

so a powerful high isp non-throttle-able engine, with dense fuel, and lower cooling and power requirements compared to the VISTA.