KSP Interstellar Extended Continued Development Thread

[FreeThinker]

Version 1.3.3 for Kerbal Space Program 1.0.4

Released on 2015-07-28

• Added Vasimr engine which offers high amount of variable Isp at the expense of efficiency (credits go to Small FatFeutus for model)
  
• Removed Magneto Plasma Dynamic thruster and Arcjet (ATILA) thruster ability of variable Isp
  

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Attila Thuster not so useful. For sure I need a better reactor (or an upgraded one) to have gain from KSPI power (like the SSTO I posted yesterday).

Exactly what would make the Attila thruster usefull for you?

Edited July 28, 2015 by FreeThinker

[Kershu5]

I've been trying to look through the thread but I fear I don't see how to make the Attila thruster work.. At all. I've got it set to LqdHydrogen, and I even gave it a nice big tank of LH, with plenty of power. Its status remains at "off" for reasons beyond my comprehension. It's currently hooked up to a Stayputnik probe..

[Nansuchao]

Exactly what would make the Attila thruster usefull for you?

A Microwave System, that I still have to unlock. if I need to have a reactor in a ship with Attila engines, the efficiency of the ship is lowered very much by the weight.

Kershu, have you a reactor in your ship?

[Kershu5]

Yeah, I tossed in an MSR.. Doesn't seem to be doing much of a bloody thing except "looking neat".

[FreeThinker]

A Microwave System, that I still have to unlock. if I need to have a reactor in a ship with Attila engines, the efficiency of the ship is lowered very much by the weight.

Kershu, have you a reactor in your ship?

The mass of the thrusters is indeed a balance concern. Considering their performance and size, they should be lighter than the other electric engines. Notice that's why I have lowered their mass in the last update by 50%. Hopefully this will make them more useful for players. Also notice they perform best they performance propellants like hydrazine or ammonia, which will give them a significant thrust bonus. This should make the Arcjet useful even with first generation molten salt reactors.

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Yeah, I tossed in an MSR.. Doesn't seem to be doing much of a bloody thing except "looking neat".

To get an electric engine working you need at least three things: 1 Reactor, 2 Thermal Generator (connected to reactor) 3 Radiators. If any of these are missing, you not going to get any effect from the engines. Also take note, their are complicating factors like atmospheric pressure or gravity, which can prevent you from generating any thrust. Most KSPI engines perform best when in orbit, not on the surface. the exception is the thermal turbo jet which initially can only operate in the atmosphere. Look at the Engine table on the First page for an overview

Edited July 29, 2015 by FreeThinker

[Nansuchao]

Great! So, it's time to upgrade from 1.2.6 :-)

[Kershu5]

Ohhh okay, I'm missing a thermal generator then. Alright, I can fix that.. Thank you.

[Jetski]

Hey great job with this mod, I've been trying to play Interstellar since early days, and this is by far the most playable and fun it's ever been. I'm pretty far along a career, just unlocked Quantum vacuum plasma, and have a fairly hefty microwave power system set up. My only request would be to bring back the solar power generation satellite ability, even in a bastardized form. I know 1.0 heat concerns make it impractical now, but maybe even a new panel with a higher melting point? It was a blast trying to get a low solar orbit with 28 gigantors, with a great payoff of free energy anywhere in system. Just my 2 cents. Keep up the great work!

[Bishop149]

At the moment, in my series, I harvested science from Kerbin (most), Mun (all), Minmus (all), some from Duna, Ike, Eve, Gilly and I'm departing for the first interplanetary manned travel, and I unlocked the Gas Core Reactor and the first KSPI radiator. To end the tech tree, I'll probably need to make long interplanetary travel, manned... So, it seems good from a balance point of view. For now I just use the smallest reactor with a thermal generator, down scaled to 0.625 to power ships and probes, TTJ is pointless in vacuum (for now), Thermal Nozzle and Attila Thuster not so useful. For sure I need a better reactor (or an upgraded one) to have gain from KSPI power (like the SSTO I posted yesterday).

I am at much the same point, I have nearly exhausted Kerbins SOI of science. . . . I have some from further afield but generally only that which can be transmitted without loss.

I have a manned Eve mission (non landing!) carrying a truck load of science that is currently about 200 days from return.

I have sent a very lightweight Ion powered manned science mission to Jool. . . . won't arrive for ages.

Duna alignment is coming up. . . . will be chucking a ton of stuff at it.

I've unlocked most of the tech tree up to Tier 9 (1000 sci) and have a few of the Tier 10's (1500 sci) nothing beyond.

To date KSPI-E's biggest impact on my game to date has been essentially the small molten salt reactor for use as a power core in probes.

At the 0.625m scale it allows probes for which power / solar panels etc is all but eliminated as an issue. This is VERY handy for ion engines and as I also play with remote tech II some of the transmitters are quite power hungry.

Most of the other reactors I've unlocked are not so useful to me thus far, mostly because they are too big, heavy and expensive. I tend to build small because it appeals to my sense of efficiency and because career rewards it. . . very large heavy ships are expensive, both in themselves and to get into orbit.

The gas core reactor looks lovely but until I get some more unlocks it only comes for me as a huge and heavy.

I do use The Particle / Pebble Bed as it scales down to 1.25m to be useful in moderately sized ships.

I generally think the progression is about right, my own slowish science accumulation is largely my own choice, I could just timewarp away that Eve return and net a metric ton of science quick-fast but I dislike prolonged periods of time acceleration, it feels like a waste. . . . compounded by the fact I'd miss some alignments.

I would perhaps make the following changes where I in charge:

Unlock a smaller than 2.5m Gas Core reactor a little earlier. . . its currently Tier 11 (2250 sci) which is pretty late for probably the most useful thermal nozzle engine.

I'd overhaul the ISRUs a little as follows.

- Remove the resource extraction from all the ISRU modules and add them to the stock drill.

- Get rid of the weird non-inline refinery entirely it adds very little and its attachment can be pain.

- Make the 2.5m inline 1.25m by default with the option to scale smaller

- Make the 3.75m inline 2.5m by default with the option to scale higher or to 1.875m

- Make it possible to produce hydrazine from the ISRU as its one of the most useful fuels.

This would open up useful ISRU operations earlier, and the rewards of investing more science would simply be larger scale production

[walaykin]

I'd overhaul the ISRUs a little as follows.

- Remove the resource extraction from all the ISRU modules and add them to the stock drill.

- Get rid of the weird non-inline refinery entirely it adds very little and its attachment can be pain.

- Make the 2.5m inline 1.25m by default with the option to scale smaller

- Make the 3.75m inline 2.5m by default with the option to scale higher or to 1.875m

- Make it possible to produce hydrazine from the ISRU as its one of the most useful fuels.

This would open up useful ISRU operations earlier, and the rewards of investing more science would simply be larger scale production

I tend to agree - the ISRU components are too awkward to use in most of my ship designs, especially the weird frisbee. At the moment, quite late in my playthrough, I've basically ignored the KSPI ISRU and used stock ISRU to mine liquidfuel to run in a thermal nozzle; even with the soot mechanic, it works just fine, and the ability to downscale the stock ISRU to 1.25 means you can side-mount two of them, and avoid really tall (and easy to topple) lander designs.

This is kind of a shame, as I've totally ignores the methalox and hybrid rockets.

The KSPI 2.5m stack part is really only useful with scoops, and once you have thermal nozzles, you can just run off the scooped gas directly. I would definitely like to see the KSP stock drills able to feed the 2.5m part for use on vacuum worlds.

The ability to downsize the 2.5m part might be nice, but was not a big problem for me because it's height is reasonable; then again as noted, I frequently downsize the stock part to 2x 1.25m.

The KSPI 3.75m part is too big. I don't have a use for it personally, given the type of craft I build.

The ability to vent tanks in KSPI without another mod would be handy; when doing ISRU, a few of those empty tanks are handy for intermediate products that you then discard (leftovers from differing reaction rates). The stock ore carrier can be vented, I note.

[Nansuchao]

As an endgame, Interstellar allows the building of some unbelievable craft, able to reach every corner of every system. I understand the size problem, but some reactors needs to have a size limit to be realistic. The 3.75 parts are perfect for magnificent motherships, for a long lasting manned tour of the Joolian System for example (with LS too). You'll be able to travel everywhere also with OPM or RSS.

Of course, for probes you don't need too big ships, but probes are just for the beginning, not?

[walaykin]

Btw, I'm very intrested in your (or anyone else) experience using KSPI. Specificly everything that has to do with gameplay and balance. What are the biggest obsticals? KSPI is and end game mod, which

requires people already have done a lot of research. I have not been able to play such a long compaign myself.

I really like KSPI. It's a fun mod but is not easy - the parts are balanced about right to make it challenging. A good example is that when driving the DT Vista with fusion reactors on a long journey, it makes sense to shut down the fusions between burns. But to do that, you need enough power on hand to bring them back up, which in my case meant an MSR powering an Omega, the Omega powering the big fusion. Later you can skip the intermediate - antimatter reactors having no maintenance power - but it was cool working that out. A whole bunch of experimentation to learn the new mechanics.

One thing on that - it's hard to experiment in sandbox, because AFAICT you can't "downgrade" a part to the earlier version. Maybe useful for testing before deciding whether to purchase an upgrade node in a science/career game (think of the sandbox mode as a simulation being run by Chuck Kermin before he tries to break the lightspeed barrier ;o)

I wish I'd had more reason to use microwave power on my playthrough, because it's such an interesting mechanic, but it feels pretty well balanced. I had some odd thermal bugs with the one probe I tried, but I think they were unrelated to KSPI.

I've mentioned my issues with ISRU a couple of posts earlier, won't bother to repeat them.

A very minor issue - I've had occasions where I've wanted KSPI fuel types in tank formats which are missing e.g. stock Mk3 form to match up with spaceplane designs.

I like the science lab once it's upgraded; nice that it does fuel reprocess/AM generation, but I haven't really needed it.

Atmo scoops and plasma engines make a great combo once you can power them. Wish I'd played with the scoops earlier than I did.

This is all on 1.2.4 - I'll probably avoid upgrading, I have ships in-flight whose characteristics I don't want to change, but I'm looking forward to trying the vasimir and similar.

Many thanks for your and everyone else work on the mod - I'd encourage you to take a little while off coding and enjoy a playthrough, you've earned it!

[FreeThinker]

You people do realise the KSPI Reseach Lab now contains a beefed up version of stock Processing Lab? It will requires significant more amount of power but it allows you to speed up research

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One thing on that - it's hard to experiment in sandbox, because AFAICT you can't "downgrade" a part to the earlier version. Maybe useful for testing before deciding whether to purchase an upgrade node in a science/career game (think of the sandbox mode as a simulation being run by Chuck Kermin before he tries to break the lightspeed barrier ;o)

I hear you. I kind of have the same problem when testing if everything works. It's a good idea

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As an endgame, Interstellar allows the building of some unbelievable craft, able to reach every corner of every system. I understand the size problem, but some reactors needs to have a size limit to be realistic. The 3.75 parts are perfect for magnificent motherships, for a long lasting manned tour of the Joolian System for example (with LS too). You'll be able to travel everywhere also with OPM or RSS.

Of course, for probes you don't need too big ships, but probes are just for the beginning, not?

Indeed, people think probes should be able to fitted with a fusion reactor. The reality is, fusion reactors, at least the tokamak version, becomes more energy efficenct as they increase in size. This means that you can forget about 1.25m fusion reactors. Reactor are ment for large ambitious mission, preverable multiple at the same time to make it worth the huge investments. Probes are one shot pupies, at most they will get in orbit of a foreign planetairy body, but it does not make any sence to fit them with expansive reactors. RTG are ment for this

Edited July 29, 2015 by FreeThinker

[Nansuchao]

Otherwise, if you don't want big reactors on your ships, you can fill the Kerbol System with reactors and Microwave Transmitter... :-)

I did it one time in the past, using Multiple Star System. When I reached Sentar with my mothership, I still had 4.3 GW from all the reactors all around.

[FreeThinker]

I would perhaps make the following changes where I in charge:

Unlock a smaller than 2.5m Gas Core reactor a little earlier. . . its currently Tier 11 (2250 sci) which is pretty late for probably the most useful thermal nozzle engine.

I'd overhaul the ISRUs a little as follows.

- Remove the resource extraction from all the ISRU modules and add them to the stock drill.

- Get rid of the weird non-inline refinery entirely it adds very little and its attachment can be pain.

- Make the 2.5m inline 1.25m by default with the option to scale smaller

- Make the 3.75m inline 2.5m by default with the option to scale higher or to 1.875m

- Make it possible to produce hydrazine from the ISRU as its one of the most useful fuels.

This would open up useful ISRU operations earlier, and the rewards of investing more science would simply be larger scale production

Excelent ideas. Note Hydrazine should already be possible to be made. check out the ISRU schematic. Note the 2.5m inline IRSU is actualy avialable earlier already (at 500 science). In the past you needed 1000 sci tech.

Scale production is not much of a reward in my view since timewarp mikes any difference insignificant. A better solution might be to divide IRSU processes in basic and advanced. Basic ISRU alows you to do the most basic processes like electrolysis. The advanced IRSU reaction would be the ability to make Ammonia and Hydrazine.

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Otherwise, if you don't want big reactors on your ships, you can fill the Kerbol System with reactors and Microwave Transmitter... :-)

I did it one time in the past, using Multiple Star System. When I reached Sentar with my mothership, I still had 4.3 GW from all the reactors all around.

Indeed, this is one of the prime reasons to build microwave networks, it allows even the tiniest of probes to get access to huge amount of power. The trick is not to burn to a crisp.

Edited July 29, 2015 by FreeThinker

[Hazelnut]

Btw, I'm very intrested in your (or anyone else) experience using KSPI. Specificly everything that has to do with gameplay and balance. What are the biggest obsticals? KSPI is and end game mod, which requires people already have done a lot of research. I have not been able to play such a long compaign myself.

I think on the whole the mod is fairly well balanced. After a bit more play, seems to me the cost of AM & Tritium are actually about right. Launching some of my designs quickly took me down from 12m to around 4m money. The science lab is overpowered IMO with its ability to store double the data than standard lab and the increase in sci return rate that accompanies that. It's nice but kinda completely obsoletes the base sci labs. I think it's produced about double the science that all my 7 stock labs have since its been running, although part of that is having 4* scientists rather than 2*.

The biggest obsticles to use in this mod is knowing what everything does and how to use it, the descriptions are ambiguous, incomplete or sometimes even wrong. I have spent hours and hours experimenting and while I think this is a really fun aspect of a mod, KSPI requires a bit too much right now. I can see you're making good progress with documenting the reactors now which is great. With the engines, launching and testing using Hyperedit mod was the only way I could ever figure out what each size of engine could do. I think you said that you changed the ATILA to not have variable ISP, I hope that's not going to mean <1000s rather than the 2800ish you can currently get at 33% thrust.

I think beamed power is a great concept, but I decided to give up on it in the end. I found that getting receivers that could be oriented correctly was tricky and since by that point I had enough sci to unlock AIM reactors there really wasn't enough of an advantage at that point. Think was possibly just the way I was unlocking the tech tree though.

Saucer shaped ISRU is difficult to incorporate into a design, but that's fun IMO. I would be sad to see it removed, especially since I have incorporated it. I can try to post some shots of my KSPI ships at some point.

[FreeThinker]

I think on the whole the mod is fairly well balanced. After a bit more play, seems to me the cost of AM & Tritium are actually about right. Launching some of my designs quickly took me down from 12m to around 4m money. The science lab is overpowered IMO with its ability to store double the data than standard lab and the increase in sci return rate that accompanies that. It's nice but kinda completely obsoletes the base sci labs. I think it's produced about double the science that all my 7 stock labs have since its been running, although part of that is having 4* scientists rather than 2*.

Well that was of the idea. It supposed to be as BIG SCIENCE version of the stock science labs. But perhaps I overdid it and it should be balance to more modere improvement.

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The biggest obsticles to use in this mod is knowing what everything does and how to use it, the descriptions are ambiguous, incomplete or sometimes even wrong. I have spent hours and hours experimenting and while I think this is a really fun aspect of a mod, KSPI requires a bit too much right now. I can see you're making good progress with documenting the reactors now which is great. With the engines, launching and testing using Hyperedit mod was the only way I could ever figure out what each size of engine could do. I think you said that you changed the ATILA to not have variable ISP, I hope that's not going to mean <1000s rather than the 2800ish you can currently get at 33% thrust. .

Yes I gave it back it's original ISP. Only Vasmir now has Variable Isp scaling, but it comes at the expense of efficency at the low Isp end. This should make ATILA more intresting as they are lighter and much more efficent. Vasmir true strenth would be it's ability to be used in upper stage and gradualy switch to high Isp, or for landing on a mun (For details, look at the Propulsion Table on the OP)

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Saucer shaped ISRU is difficult to incorporate into a design, but that's fun IMO. I would be sad to see it removed, especially since I have incorporated it. I can try to post some shots of my KSPI ships at some point.

That would be cool

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I think beamed power is a great concept, but I decided to give up on it in the end. I found that getting receivers that could be oriented correctly was tricky and since by that point I had enough sci to unlock AIM reactors there really wasn't enough of an advantage at that point. Think was possibly just the way I was unlocking the tech tree though.

True, If you only use the reactors purely for thermal nozzle, and magnetic noozle you could actualy almost completely ignore energy research. It's a great thing thing you have a choice, it makes it intresting and replayable. You could play a another capaign an instead specialise in electric propulsion.

Edited July 29, 2015 by FreeThinker

[Kielm]

Hello again!

I've just updated to the latest version, started a new career, and I've noticed the warp drives are appearing in the experimental rocketry node and ultra-high energy physics as well.

There are still two folders for warp drives - one in electrical and one in engines. All the Warp Drives in the Engines folder are set to unlock at experimental rocketry.

If I uncomment the USI_WarpDriveFix.cfg all the drives move back into the final tech node.

I'm using the USI Warpdrive and Near Future so I'm not sure which drives should be available to me, I seem to have some extra drives here - some that use Helium/Exotic, and others that use EC/Exotic/Xenon. I don't mind having the extra options, but I'm not sure if this is working as intended!

Thanks for all the hard work FreeThinker

[Nansuchao]

FreeThinker, now the Gas Core Reactor suffer accelleration, but also in vacuum? I made a quick test with the Attila Engine (Sandbox) and at 100% thrust, it deplete fastly Megajoules and Thermal Power. Is this intended?

[FreeThinker]

Your Isp is too low, it should be 1785s and your efficiency should be 87%. I tested it but with and it works as it should. I advice you to remove Arcjet folder and reinstall KSPI

[Nansuchao]

Ok, thanks

[tainurn]

I have a some questions about setting up a beamed power network:

- I get this error after about 10 minutes of a power station being active "fusion reactor plasma heating cannot be guaranteed". I upgraded to station from satellite because my satellites would either run out of electric charge or blow up.

- When the reactors are running and transmitting power, none of my relays are picking it up. I even pointed them at each other within line of site.

-Lastly, after I get all of that taken care of...what's the optimal transmitter/relay set up and altitude?

[Hazelnut]

Well that was of the idea. It supposed to be as BIG SCIENCE version of the stock science labs. But perhaps I overdid it and it should be balance to more modere improvement.

I think it needs to be better than stock, but it would be interesting to see how others find it before you balance it.

Yes I gave it back it's original ISP. Only Vasmir now has Variable Isp scaling, but it comes at the expense of efficency at the low Isp end. This should make ATILA more intresting as they are lighter and much more efficent. Vasmir true strenth would be it's ability to be used in upper stage and gradualy switch to high Isp, or for landing on a mun (For details, look at the Propulsion Table on the OP)

Didn't make much difference to me, I get same thrust at same ISP as I did when limiting to 33%, just don't have the option of more thrust for less ISP now.

True, If you only use the reactors purely for thermal nozzle, and magnetic noozle you could actualy almost completely ignore energy research. It's a great thing thing you have a choice, it makes it intresting and replayable. You could play a another capaign an instead specialise in electric propulsion.

No new campaign until 1.1 is out for me. I will be visiting all bodies (outer planets mod) then I will be done until 1.1 is out I think. Will post some shots of my mk1 craft later, and mk2 in next day or two.

[Flef]

I start to discover the mod and I have a question regarding the wasted heat.

Does it have a purpose? I mean the wasted heat accumulates in my solar panels (fine) and the game allows to stop the accumulation by deactivating the flow (right click/untoggle the green triangle like for fuel). But does the heat has a function with something? A generator or whatever?

[Hazelnut]

Well took a bit of effort but I finally got some older shots onto imgur. Will do some more recent ones soon as mk2 versions are finished. (onto last tests now)

SOme of the shots are very dark, but there is detail on them if you turn up the brightness a bit and look at the full res versions.

Hope people find them interesting, very curious to see what others think of 'em. I tried to add enough explanation, but feel free to ask any questions.

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