KSP Interstellar Extended Continued Development Thread

[ss8913]

Freethinker - is there anything else I can provide for you in the way of data, testing, experimentation, etc, to help fix the TTJ+DRE heating issues? I'm happy to run whatever tests you'd like.

[Bignumbers]

Is there something wrong with the ATTILA engines? They really seem to like to gobble up fuel in a blink.

[FreeThinker]

Version 1.1.17 for Kerbal Space Program 1.0.2

Released on 2015-06-06

• Fixed tweak-scale resized radiator bug
  
• Plasma Thruster now have 3 tech levels: Plasma Thruster, Magneto Plasma Dynamic Thruster and Quantum Vacuum Plasma Thruster,
  
• Upgraded versions Plasma Thruster now visible in tech tree
  

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Is there something wrong with the ATTILA engines? They really seem to like to gobble up fuel in a blink.

They have Variable Isp. A full thust their ISP is 1/3 of what it was, which result in 3 times as much thrust, at 1/3 thrust it has the original Isp and thrust

Edited June 6, 2015 by FreeThinker

[raxo2222]

Version 1.1.17 for Kerbal Space Program 1.0.2

Released on 2015-06-06

• Fixed tweak-scale resized radiator bug
  
• Plasma Thruster now have 3 tech levels: Plasma Thruster, Magneto Plasma Dynamic Thruster and Quantum Vacuum Plasma Thruster,
  
• Upgraded versions Plasma Thruster now visible in tech tree
  

- - - Updated - - -

They have Variable Isp. A full thust their ISP is 1/3 of what it was, which result in 3 times as much thrust, at 1/3 thrust it has the original Isp and thrust

Imma try this new plasma truster.

Also these 5 meter SAS from Usi are very useful here.

Is there scaled up version of RCS here?

Apparently I can't use magneto dynamic plasma thruster, as I have quantum vacuum thruster. What it does? and what is difference between 2 old plasma thrusters and this one?

Edited June 6, 2015 by raxo2222

[FreeThinker]

It is all same plasma thruster, it just gains additional capabilities with higher technologies. It now uses all 3 CTT plasma technodes (Plasma Propulsion, Advanced Electromagnetic Systems, Specialized Plasma Generation) instead of only 1. Quantum Vacuum is now a choice instead of something you gain automatically at the end of the tech tree

Edited June 6, 2015 by FreeThinker

[raxo2222]

It is all same plasma thruster, it just gains additional capabilities with higher technologies. It now uses all 3 CTT plasma technodes (Plasma Propulsion, Advanced Electromagnetic Systems, Specialized Plasma Generation) instead of only 1. Quantum Vacuum is now a choice instead of something you gain automatically at the end of the tech tree

Well quantum thruster uses no fuel in space.

Is difference between earlier two that one has higher ISP at lower throttle and other not?

[ss8913]

Found a somewhat strange workaround to the heat problem... edit the thermal rocket and thermal turbojet configs, change max heat to 12750K from 2750K. Net result, when using DRE, the engines still report 2750K in the right click menu, but they build heat about half as fast (or less) and don't overheat. I'm not sure if should therefore pick a new number somewhere between 2750 and 12750 to balance it, as right now I don't think it's possible to overheat them at all (with the 12750 value), and it's impossible to use them due to violent thermal detonation with the stock value. Again this bug only shows up if you combine this mod with DRE.

[FreeThinker]

DRE seriously screws up KSPI heat management. It does something under the hood which is not very nice. For unknown reasons , thermalEmissiveness no longer works with DRE installed, This causes engines like the Visa to eventually overheat. I call delay it, but not prevent it.

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Well quantum thruster uses no fuel in space.

Is difference between earlier two that one has higher ISP at lower throttle and other not?

At techlevel 2 (with Advanced Electromagnetic Systems), the Plasma Thruster gains the ability to scale from Base isp up to 3 times it base Isp. That why it's called Magneto Plasma Dynamic Thruster (MPD for short)! The old plasma thruster was basically a nerved version of the Magneto Plasma Dynamic Thruster, limited to first gear. With Advanced Electromagnetic Systems, You now gain the full spectrum of the plasma engine, allowing you to use both low and high Isp thrust!

At techlevel 3 (with Specialized Plasma Generation ), the Plasma Thruster gains the ability to switch to Quantum Vacuum mode outside of the atmosphere. This mode effectively allow you to get propulsion without any propellant. Even though, it uses no propellant, it still has an Isp which limits its thrust. The thrust of Vacuum Isp is half of hydrogen, which you need large amount of power to get any significant amount of thust.

Edited June 6, 2015 by FreeThinker

[Thorbane]

There's something weird going on with the new tanks. They weigh much more than the older interstellar fuel tanks when containing LH2, until you change the tank type to something else and back again.

[Tivec]

I'm going to need a bit of assistance from you guys. I'm trying to set up a ModuleManager patch to apply KSP Interstellar WasteHeat handling to Near Future radiators, but need a bit of guidance on some values.

* Is there a way to figure out area, temperature and W radiated WasteHeat?

* Can the FNRadiator have two different areas or WasteHeat emission, one for packed, one for deployed?

Looking at the three radiators from NFT, this is how they are set up:

GR-EXP Conformal Heat Radiator: 50kW when closed, 110kW when deployed.

GR-4 Conformal Heat Radiator: 100kW when closed, 450kW when deployed.

GR-1 Conformal Heat radiator: 300kW when closed, 2700kW when deployed.

Any help would be great here.

[FreeThinker]

There's something weird going on with the new tanks. They weigh much more than the older interstellar fuel tanks when containing LH2, until you change the tank type to something else and back again.

Why do you think this? note that KSP Engeneer report does not get updated after changing size. For an accurate number on the mass of a tank, look at the dry mass propert on the right click menu.

[Thorbane]

Why do you think this? note that KSP Engeneer report does not get updated after changing size. For an accurate number on the mass of a tank, look at the dry mass propert on the right click menu.

That's what I did.

[FreeThinker]

That's what I did.

Alright, tell me the exact steps to reproduce

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Edit: Wait I see the problem only happens with smaller tanks

Edit2: Alright, I identified the problem and now it is fixed for any configuration

Edited June 6, 2015 by FreeThinker

[raxo2222]

I made hyper heavy launcher - it could launch copy of itself into space!

I used 2 5m antimatter reactors and 2 charged particles generators and plasma thruster. It needs SAS from USI - cargo transportation.

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This is what you can make with end game tech of KSPI.

[FreeThinker]

Yes, that a powerfull ship with all those AntiMatter reactors. But why are use using Nitrogen as a propellant? Although Nitrogen is clean and almost free on Kerbin but Amonia would give significantly Higher Isp for with about the same Thrust.

Edited June 6, 2015 by FreeThinker

[raxo2222]

Yes, that a powerfull ship with all those AntiMatter reactors. But why are use using Nitrogen as a propellant? Although Nitrogen is clean and almost free on Kerbin but Amonia would give significantly Higher Isp for with about the same Thrust.

So I can squeeze more delta-v from single tank?

Here is sundive trip:

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[FreeThinker]

So I can squeeze more delta-v from single tank?

Here is sundive trip:

http://imgur.com/a/ur4P1

There are lot's of way to improve an KSPI SSTO , on of the most effective is adding Magnetic nozzles. When attached to Antimatter reactor, they can produce large amount of thrust at with high Isp. If you take Mass into account their TWR is even higher than Vista's

Edited June 6, 2015 by FreeThinker

[raxo2222]

There are lot's of way to improve an KSPI SSTO , on of the most effective is adding Magnetic nozzles. When attached to Antimatter reactor, they can produce large amount of thrust at with high Isp. If you take Mass into account their TWR is even higher than Vista's

Hmm but these need hydrogen - its not densest of fuels.

I tested all 7 fuels, that plasma engine uses.

I used largest fuel tank for 1.25 meter space plane with 2 antimatter reactors. If I used different reactors and fuel tanks then numbers would change, but still these fuels would be here.

CO2, Hydrazine and Ammonia give you almost same delta V of 20 km/s (CO2 was highest with 20400 m/s)

Most TWR is from CO2 - 3.25

Hydrogen has ISP of 33k.

Least delta V was from hydrogen - 6400 m/s.

Least TWR was from hydrogen - 0.87

Least ISP was from CO2 - 7.3k

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So use CO2/Ammonia/Hydrazine with plasma thrusters.

[FreeThinker]

You have to take into account that Hydrogen, due to their low static trust is not very efficent for lauches. But once in orbit, they should be king as far as ISP goes. Indeed for plasma engines ammonia , doesn't give any distinct thrust advantage, but it can be converted into Nitrogen and Hydrogen with an IRSU refinery! This means you can lauch on Ammonia and convert a part into Hydrogen /which can be used by Magnetic Nozzles for very high Isp.

[raxo2222]

What reactor does fully support equivalent size of magnetic nozzle? These 5 meter nozzle uses only 15GW of power.

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[FreeThinker]

What reactor does fully support equivalent size of magnetic nozzle? These 5 meter nozzle uses only 15GW of power.

http://imgur.com/a/Qsvrk

For maximum performace, The combines surface area should be equal to the surface area of the attached reactor. This means you have connect 4 1.25m magnetic nozzles to a single 2.5m Antimatter reactor for optimal performance.

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Edit: sorry for the confusion, but the Electric requirement is only needed to create a strong magnetic field to divert the magnetic particles, which supply the power that result in thrust. Notice, the thrust you see is only of the last Antimatter reactor. To use the power of the other antimatter reactor you need to attach 4 magnetic nozzles radially (using an other part to connect them together.

Edited June 6, 2015 by FreeThinker

[raxo2222]

For maximum performace, The combines surface area should be equal to the surface area of the attached reactor. This means you have connect 4 1.25m magnetic nozzles to a single 2.5m Antimatter reactor for optimal performance.

Plasma only - 15 parts. And only 840 tons.

Plasma with 4 magnetic boosters - 45 parts and 1200 tons. I think I do something wrong.

I add 4 3.75m side boosters to 5m rocket with 3 antimatter reactors (2 to support plasma and 1 to support 4 magnetic nozzles)

Where I can get procedual adapter, and how I can make it more efficient?

Edit: I had this installed, now it weights only 900 tons and has around 20 parts.

But ISRU doesn't work for me

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There is nice 1 G acceleration at 2/3 of thrust.

Edited June 6, 2015 by raxo2222

[FreeThinker]

You also have to consider the fact that magnetic nozzle, in contract to plasma engines, produce no waste heat. This means you need a lot less radiators that drag you down

[raxo2222]

You also have to consider the fact that magnetic nozzle, in contract to plasma engines, produce no waste heat. This means you need a lot less radiators that drag you down

So by that you mean I should build orbital factory to make this rocket in space? I still have to build lander for it BTW - for now I have this launcher.

I wanted to have plasma vacuum thruster too not just magnetic nozzles.

[FreeThinker]

If you truly want to optimise your Isp for lauch, use Thermal TurboJet. When coupled with AntiMatter reactor, it generates enough power to shoot you straight to another planet without any propellant. The only problem will be the aiming as you will travel at 10 times the speed of sound though the atmosphere.

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A good combo is the charge particle reactor + thermal power generator + turbojet + 4 magnetic nozzles + 4 precooler + 4 nose cones + 0.625 Molten Salt + 0.625 Thermal power generator. The big plus is you don't need many radiator surface and need very little propellant to get into orbit and travel anywhere you want.

Edited June 6, 2015 by FreeThinker