Stock BDA dogfighters 1.2 (youtube)

[goduranus]

I saw the new planes. A bit busy to fire up KSP, but will be back in a couple of days.

 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, goduranus said:

I saw the new planes. A bit busy to fire up KSP, but will be back in a couple of days.

 

Dont rush yourself. We understand that life takes priority.

[StupidAndy]

but is my plane actually GOOD?

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, StupidAndy said:

but is my plane actually GOOD?

Have you entered one yet?

[StupidAndy]

1 minute ago, dundun92 said:

Have you entered one yet?

yeah, its on the bottom of the previous page

[Guest]

1 minute ago, StupidAndy said:

yeah, its on the bottom of the previous page

He'll take it. If you arent using radar, id highly advise you use no missiles(not even sidewinders, as radar improves their preformance) 

[StupidAndy]

1 hour ago, dundun92 said:

He'll take it. If you arent using radar, id highly advise you use no missiles(not even sidewinders, as radar improves their preformance) 

right now I'm learning, its the first BDA anything I've ever made

have to start somewhere

[53miner53]

I would like to enter Fighter 2 into the challenge! 

https://kerbalx.com/53miner53/Fighter-2

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0eMT8zRijNmS3dUNVlZalZzN0k

If the pictures aren't up yet, wait a few minutes. I forgot to grab some before exiting KSP.

[Guest]

why cant you show a picture of it?

[53miner53]

I forgot to take the pics. uploading now.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0eMT8zRijNmS3dUNVlZalZzN0k

[goduranus]

I might be getting more busy over the next few week, so won't be taking more planes in this thread. If I am ready to do more recording I'll start a new thread for it so rules revisions can be in the opening thread.

First up

Mig-1 vs Anshar

Mig-1 has violates the 4-guns limit, but it's no big deal as the guns are low powered Brownings, it's matched against the Anshar which is also violating the rule by using turrets, which is also not really a problem as the turrets are fixed. 

 

F-1100 vs Anshar

F-1100 get +2 planes from having no missiles and no missile countermeasures, it does not get a +1 from using Junos for a violating the "Only 2 engines" rule, so the 4 Junos counts as a single Wheely. F-1100 is matched against the Anshar. The Anshars managed to even the odds by destroying two F-1100s in the missile salvo, then besting the F-1100 with their suprerior maneuverability.

Bullet vs MicroAIV

The Bullet has AI settings violations which was corrected before the battle. Bullet and MicroAIV are very similar crafts with similar performance, and even having similar flaws of low speed instability. After an evenly matched battle, the Bullet pulls out a narrow victory.

The Bullet Challenges the Dorito

The Bullet was not able to match the Doritos' missile dodging performance.

Birdie vs Bullet

Birdie has a violation by using more missiles than the rules allow, so 2 AMRAAMs were removed, as it didn't have a radar for firing them anyways.

Quick victory for the Bullet, with the Birdies nailed by missiles before they could return fire.

Bullet vs Fighter 2

Fighter 2 gets +1 planes by using no missiles. The Fighter 2 have a major design problem in that sometimes the game thinks their main intakes are occluded by the cargo bay.

The match started with Fighter 2 having thrust problems due to the game not recognizing their main intakes, but they managed to outmaneuver the Bullets and snatch out a win with their superior gun firepower.

Fighter 2 vs the Dorito

Fighter 2s once again had intake problems, and this time it was their downfall, as the loss of speed resulted in their being unable to escape the Dorito's missiles.

 

[StupidAndy]

oh glorious gooshnag that was HILLARIOUS!!

back to the drawing board!

quick question:  do I have to have the missiles and guns action grouped?

also: how do I make the plane more maneuverable?

Edited July 9, 2017 by StupidAndy

[goduranus]

Whether the guns and missiles are action grouped doesn't affect the AI's ability to use them.

You can make the plane more maneuverable by:

• keeping the center of lift close to center of mass, which reduces resistance to turning;
• telling the plane to keep its speed up by setting minimum combat speed to at least 100, so it has more kinetic energy and can convert kinetic energy to rotational energy more quickly;
• telling the plane to not maneuver too hard at low speeds, by setting AoA limit to 10 degrees, so that it doesn't bleed speed when kinetic energy is already low
• telling the plane to maneuver hard at high speed, by setting G-limit to max, so that it will turn hard when it has lots of kinetic energy to spare.

[StupidAndy]

3 hours ago, goduranus said:

 

You can make the plane more maneuverable by:

• keeping the center of lift close to center of mass, which reduces resistance to turning;
• telling the plane to keep its speed up by setting minimum combat speed to at least 100, so it has more kinetic energy and can convert kinetic energy to rotational energy more quickly;
• telling the plane to not maneuver too hard at low speeds, by setting AoA limit to 10 degrees, so that it doesn't bleed speed when kinetic energy is already low
• telling the plane to maneuver hard at high speed, by setting G-limit to max, so that it will turn hard when it has lots of kinetic energy to spare.

the last 3 are going to be useful! thanks! I didn't edit the weapon manager or AI thingy's internal stuff at all so this should help

but any more tips on non-AI pilot stuff? (I have no idea how to make a good plane, I always do spacey things)

[goduranus]

Some tips:

Stock KSP's elevon control is not good for high maneuverability crafts, so it's best to separate out the ailerons from elevators. FAR has advanced settings that takes the airflow direction into account, so in FAR you could definitely come up with better set ups than what I just described. These are just tips for stock.

Elevators:

With regards to center of mass vs center for lift for optimum maneuverability. Mount all the wings and control surfaces except your elevators(the ones that control pitch), and make sure the center of lift with everything except the elevators is a good distance in front of the center of mass. Then mount the elevators in such a way that it pulls the center of lift slightly behind the center of mass, usually by placing elevators as far back as possible. Then set the elevator authority limit such that at full deflection is near the desired pitching AoA for the craft, which imo is 10-15 degrees.

What this allows you to do is turn much faster by shifting the center of lift back and forth, in front and behind the center of mass, by changing the elevator angle. When the elevator is at full deflection during a turn, it is nearly parallel to the airflow and don't contribute to the center of lift, so center of lift moves in front of the center of mass, and the aerodynamics force on your main wings contributes to your manevuerability. When the turn is finished, the elevator centers, moving the center of lift behind the center of mass, and your craft stabilizes.

 

Ailerons:

With stock game not taking airflow direction into account, the ailerons will produce a yaw force when the craft is rolling while pitching. This is because aileron on one side is deflected against the airflow, while the other side is deflected into the airflow. For example, while pitching up and rolling right, the airflow is coming from below, so the ailerons produce a yaw left, because the left aileron is deflected against the airflow while the right aileron is deflected parallel to the airflow. I think the solution is to either mount the ailerons to exert a partial yaw force to counteract this,(swept forward for ailerons behind CoM, swept back for ailerons in front of CoM) or to just make sure the ailerons aren't too big, and mounted as far to the sides as possible for leverage.

 

Canards:

Canards are bad in stock, because their orientation don't depend on direction of airflow, so what you get is basically a reversed elevator that's worse than an elevator because they generate much for drag when in use. This is because while pitching, the canard turns opposite to the airflow while the elevator turns into the airflow. With FAR, you can set canards to follow the airflow and they become much more useful for assisting with stability, see video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBuQvZvBdto

 

Wings:

Make sure you have enough wings that your craft can maneuver at a relatively shallow AoA, as this is efficient for retaining kinetic energy during a turn. Although don't put too many wings as doing so causes your plane lose a lot of kinetic energy from drag.

 

Weight Distribution:

You want your center of mass to not move very much as you expend fuel and munitions, so build the craft with all fuel tanks empty. Then add fuel back bit by bit while keeping the CoM in the same spot. For this to be possible you should have fuel tanks both in front and behind the CoM, or on the CoM itself. After you get the desired amount of fuel, add missiles and ammo while keeping the CoM in the same spot. Note that you should have heavier components/munitions near the center of mass and lighter components/munitions further but still as close as possible from center of mass to minimize the moment of inertia, which gives you a higher angular acceleration.

 

Missiles and Guns:

To avoid exploding your planes by your own missiles, set ejection speed to max and set drop time to zero. Downward ejection is slightly safer than forward ejection. Put guns on a non-curved surface so they fire straight. Use only AMRAAMs in missiles because Sidewinders don't work if the enemy has even one decoy flare. Use only GAU for your gun because it has the highest DPS due to splash damage.

Edited July 12, 2017 by goduranus

[53miner53]

Fighter 2 update: https://kerbalx.com/53miner53/Fighter-2

One pic of a Fighter 2 group: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0eMT8zRijNmNTJoMW8wTnVTak0

I wonder why it wasn't having intake troubles in my game... Oh well.

Edited July 12, 2017 by 53miner53

[goduranus]

Submission is closed though  Won't be more videos for a while.

[drtricky]

4 hours ago, goduranus said:

Canards:

Canards are bad in stock, because their orientation don't depend on direction of airflow, so what you get is basically a reversed elevator that's worse than an elevator because they generate much for drag when in use. This is because while pitching, the canard turns opposite to the airflow while the elevator turns into the airflow.

Shouldn't canards normally deflect in the opposite direction of elevators?

Edited July 12, 2017 by drtricky

[goduranus]

They are supposed to deflect in opposite directions relative to the airflow, which is not necessarily opposite directions relative to the hull of the aircraft. FAR has the option to let control surfaces do this, but stock game they always deflect relative to the hull. 

See this video of Su-37's canards, at 1:20, they deflect in the same direction to the hull. I think the reasons for doing this is somewhat do to with keeping the canard from stalling, but I am no expert.

 

Edited July 12, 2017 by goduranus

[drtricky]

50 minutes ago, goduranus said:

They are supposed to deflect in opposite directions relative to the airflow, which is not necessarily opposite directions relative to the hull of the aircraft. FAR has the option to let control surfaces do this, but stock game they always deflect relative to the hull. 

Is this only for stuff like FAR? Because when I set the canard's authority value to negative (which allows deflection in the opposite direction for pitch), I noticed it changed pitch more sluggishly than usual.

[goduranus]

Yeah, control surfaces dependent on airflow is a FAR thing, it's not the same as setting authority to negative.

[MiffedStarfish]

I have a plane I'd like to enter, but can someone answer these questions please?

1. Is FAR required?

2. Why the no drones rule?

3. If I had a missile built out of parts with a warhead, that tracked enemy planes with target hold SAS setting, and kept tracking after switching, is there any way to launch it?

[Guest]

Just now, MiffedStarfish said:

I have a plane I'd like to enter, but can someone answer these questions please?

1. Is FAR required?

2. Why the no drones rule?

3. If I had a missile built out of parts with a warhead, that tracked enemy planes with target hold SAS setting, and kept tracking after switching, is there any way to launch it?

you cant enter anymore.

he just said that

[MiffedStarfish]

damn. sorry should have looked.

[Guest]

that's ok