Shuttle Challenge v5 - The STS thread [Stock and Mod Friendly] - MAJOR CHALLENGE ANNOUNCEMENT! - 30.3.2020

[qzgy]

22 hours ago, Kerbolitto said:

I did not try to land on the KSC coming this high because I have very low experience on precise re-entry when coming from this high.

Try getting into a lower orbit first. Makes it easier. Also I highly recommend Trajectories. Literally the only way I get my landings spot on most of the time.

[Kerbolitto]

11 minutes ago, qzgy said:

Try getting into a lower orbit first. Makes it easier. Also I highly recommend Trajectories. Literally the only way I get my landings spot on most of the time.

Sure it's easier when diving from 70-90k but most of the times I'm doing an aerocapture rather than an aerobrake to lower my Ap. Also for now, I'd like to keep my game fully stock !

[RealKerbal3x]

14 hours ago, Kerbolitto said:

Sure it's easier when diving from 70-90k but most of the times I'm doing an aerocapture rather than an aerobrake to lower my Ap. Also for now, I'd like to keep my game fully stock !

*Darth Vader voice* Join the dark mod side *loud exaggerated breathing*

[Alienwall]

STS 5-8 completed:

Spoiler

 

The finished station:

[zolotiyeruki]

Here's my STS-2T mission.  I ran into one major problem due to the design of this iteration of the craft--even after the boosters are separated, it is *very* heavy (lots and lots of LF).  Since LV-Ns burn fuel relatively slowly, that meant I was very heavy on re-entry, and I somehow also ended up several kilometers south of KSC.  Overweight, and very little thrust, it was a desperate struggle to get the shuttle back to the KSC.  But they made it.

https://imgur.com/a/8ubIAZB

[michal.don]

Alright, I'm back home!

The holiday was really nice, and I've seen some pretty intersting places - for anyone interested, here's an example:

(Yes, that's the Chernobyl sarcophagus in the back, and no, you're technically not allowed to go on the roofs there  )

 

I can see that quite a lot of shuttle-flying happened while I was gone, and I'll do my best to review it sometimes soon - probably tomorrow. So, please, hang on for a while longer, I have a lot of laundry/unpacking/housekeeping to do right now  

 

Michal.don

[funk]

@michal.donI hope you've had a nice week. In pictures likes this it always impress me to see how nature recovers and reminds me that it will still be there when humans are gone.

Regarding the challenge, for STS-3T the description says: "The Cassini probe must weigh at least 1,5 tons, the Huygens lander must weigh at least 1 ton"

Am I correct that this is ment to be mass or weight on Kerbin sealevel? And does the lander need to have a fuel tank? Because I'm planning to send it to Laythe without an engine. Cassini will only have the torodial tank.

Thx in advance.

[michal.don]

Alright, I'm at work I have a bit of time now, so I'll try to check the new entries.

Here we go:

On 6/22/2018 at 11:07 PM, Kerbolitto said:

This my attempt to STS 1b and 2a at the same time, with the glorious Artisan v2-2 going up there !

That's an advantage of a large cargo bay - you can put all kinds of goodies into it at once

While eyeballed all the way through, it sure qualifies for the "pilot" level badges - congratulations! And when you get more comfortable with your shuttle, you might revisit these missions to get the "commander" level badges - the gold stars are sooo shiny

(next page reviews coming very soon)

[michal.don]

On 6/25/2018 at 1:12 AM, Alienwall said:

STS 5-8 completed:

Pretty impressive design of a MK2-sized station - very good job! And those 4-point dockings are a nice touch, too. Again, the reentry procedure looks quite brutal, but I guess Kerbals don't mind that much and safety protocols are more.... ehm... relaxed?  Nice mission and video report, here's your badge - congratulations!

And now what? Potato hunting, Mun, or are we going interplanetary?

 

On 6/30/2018 at 2:27 PM, zolotiyeruki said:

Here's my STS-2T mission.  I ran into one major problem due to the design of this iteration of the craft--even after the boosters are separated, it is *very* heavy (lots and lots of LF).  Since LV-Ns burn fuel relatively slowly, that meant I was very heavy on re-entry, and I somehow also ended up several kilometers south of KSC.  Overweight, and very little thrust, it was a desperate struggle to get the shuttle back to the KSC.  But they made it.

Yeah, your shuttle design is not a favourable one for this kind of abort procedure, that's why I stated in the rules that an STS-alike design is highly recommended for the "Test pilot" missions. But you managed to succed anyway, so that's some extra credit for you  Good job, here's your badge:

 

12 hours ago, funk said:

Regarding the challenge, for STS-3T the description says: "The Cassini probe must weigh at least 1,5 tons, the Huygens lander must weigh at least 1 ton"

Am I correct that this is ment to be mass or weight on Kerbin sealevel? And does the lander need to have a fuel tank? Because I'm planning to send it to Laythe without an engine. Cassini will only have the torodial tank.

 

Mass is mass, regardless where you measure it  The easiest way to find it is to build the craft as a subassembly, and the mass is stated in the "report" in the VAB/SPH. Also the lander doesn't have to have the fuel tank, the rules state the maximum amount of fuel, so anything less than that is OK (including zero fuel). I hope this helps,

 

Michal.don

[funk]

33 minutes ago, michal.don said:

Mass is mass, regardless where you measure it

Ok thx, that's what I was confused about cause it says "weigh" in the description.

[michal.don]

2 minutes ago, funk said:

Ok thx, that's what I was confused about cause it says "weigh" in the description.

Oh.....

......

Stupid Michal.don, stupid.....  I'll rephrase that in the OP so it's clear, thanks for pointing that out for me!

 

Also, I checked the previous version of the challenge, and found out that this version has the most replies of them all - so I'd like to thank you all for the interest in shuttle flying!

I also found out that I only added three new missions and four bonus "test pilot" missions, which is kind of meh.....

So I'd like to ask all the pilots here, especially the veteran ones, who have completed most of the regular missions - which way would you like me to continue the challenge?

 

Would you prefer to explore new worlds we haven't visited yet, or should I make the missions to develop functioning, complex infrastructure around and on the planets like Duna?

Do you like the "test pilot" missions? Should I make more, or should I focus on the regular, big ones?

Do you like the "reading materials" I sometimes include in the mission description, or are the pointless?

 

Thanks for any input,

any answers will help me build a challenge you'll hopefully all enjoy.

 

Michal.don

[Scarecrow]

Here's an entry for the Test Pilot mission STS-1T

Spoiler

 

Ready to roll

 

Positive rate of climb established

 

Approaching separation point above 5000m

 

Safe separation

 

Everything is looking good so far

 

Well that didn't seem to go too bad

 

 

Edited July 2, 2018 by Scarecrow

[hoioh]

5 hours ago, michal.don said:

Oh.....

......

Stupid Michal.don, stupid.....  I'll rephrase that in the OP so it's clear, thanks for pointing that out for me!

 

Also, I checked the previous version of the challenge, and found out that this version has the most replies of them all - so I'd like to thank you all for the interest in shuttle flying!

I also found out that I only added three new missions and four bonus "test pilot" missions, which is kind of meh.....

So I'd like to ask all the pilots here, especially the veteran ones, who have completed most of the regular missions - which way would you like me to continue the challenge?

 

Would you prefer to explore new worlds we haven't visited yet, or should I make the missions to develop functioning, complex infrastructure around and on the planets like Duna?

Do you like the "test pilot" missions? Should I make more, or should I focus on the regular, big ones?

Do you like the "reading materials" I sometimes include in the mission description, or are the pointless?

 

Thanks for any input,

any answers will help me build a challenge you'll hopefully all enjoy.

 

Michal.don

For me the most interesting mission so far was the Cassini mission, I don't care all that much about the reading material, but it's nice to have some kind of reference material, high res images and the like when working on a mission based on a real life one.

So where to continue?

I'd have to seriously think about that, what can you do with a shuttle that we haven't done yet? Something new and exciting, but what?

(Edit: I haven't even done the skylab mission yet)

2 ideas:

1. Mini shuttle, maximum dry-wet mass requirements IE Shuttle mass must be under 20t 

2. Payload fraction must be xx% IE your payload must weigh half as much as your wet shuttle without payload, so fraction = 33% or some such (not sure if that is even doable, haven't done any math on it, just ranting here)

 

Edited July 2, 2018 by hoioh

[qzgy]

5 hours ago, michal.don said:

So I'd like to ask all the pilots here, especially the veteran ones, who have completed most of the regular missions - which way would you like me to continue the challenge?

My two cents? I like the little mini histories and flavor text. Its a bit of neat history to read before actualy doing the mission.

As for the actual missions, I'm for both infrastructure and new world, but it kinda depends on what you mean by infrastructure and the challenges associated with each. Like for duna or the Mun, you can add more infrastructure but sort of what purpose would it serve or how would it be a new or interesting challenge? I mean you could have a mission to add a refinery and shuttle to the Mun colony but that would be a deliver a thing here dump it then move on.

As for more interesting worlds? It would only really be a matter of piloting to actually get somewhere and then land unless it was something like Tylo or Eve where the place itself is more of a challenge than the mun or duna.

@hoioh gives some interesting ideas though.

[4x4cheesecake]

Still struggeling with STS-9....Jeb insist on riding the astroid during the landing even though he already died like 50 times but F9 seems to wipe his memories...anyway, I consider myself as a pilot so:

5 hours ago, michal.don said:

So I'd like to ask all the pilots here, especially the veteran ones, who have completed most of the regular missions - which way would you like me to continue the challenge? 

 

Would you prefer to explore new worlds we haven't visited yet, or should I make the missions to develop functioning, complex infrastructure around and on the planets like Duna? 

How about both? Eve would be nice to visit and can be a tough challenge if you try to land AND return from the surface. I think of something like:  Build a Kerbnet capable probe network around Eve (or at least one probe in polar orbit, to look for a nice landing area), build an eve lander which can carry at least one Kerbal (to collect a surface sample) and bring this surface sample back to Kerbin. Since landings on Eve are tough, this will require multiple shuttles to build the lander in LKO or in Eve's SOI. If it is build in LKO, one or multiple shuttles can be used to perform the transfer to Eve but at least one shuttle should go to Eve as well and will be used to dock with the returning lander and bring back the Kerbal. I have actually no idea if it is possible to build an Eve lander in LKO which is stable enough to do the trip down to the surface but I would like to try it   (If you are interested and if I can achieve any reasonable results, I'll send you a mission report )

6 hours ago, michal.don said:

Do you like the "test pilot" missions? Should I make more, or should I focus on the regular, big ones?

I like them but I like the 'main' missions a bit more, so...my vote goes to the big ones^^

6 hours ago, michal.don said:

Do you like the "reading materials" I sometimes include in the mission description, or are the pointless?

Actually yes, I like the reading material. It is interesting and sometimes it can be helpful to find a solution for a specific problem or to get a better idea of the mission.

[funk]

7 hours ago, michal.don said:

Also, I checked the previous version of the challenge, and found out that this version has the most replies of them all - so I'd like to thank you all for the interest in shuttle flying!

No really, thank YOU for keeping this challenge alive with all your effort and time you spend.

7 hours ago, michal.don said:

Would you prefer to explore new worlds we haven't visited yet, or should I make the missions to develop functioning, complex infrastructure around and on the planets like Duna? 

It depends... basically it comes down to building (LV/Orbiter/Payload) and maneuvering skills (Transfers/FlyBys/Docking/Landings). In that regard the missions should be from entry level up to master level.

What stock KSP doesn't teach you well is timing (compared to RSS). Maybe there are some ways to limit a mission's parameters to reduce the margin of error.

IMHO the missions shouldn't be too repetitive, e.g. sending an orbital station to Eve is more or less the same as sending it to Duna. Same goes for bigger stations (more flights).

I was reading some stuff about the upcoming Parker-Solar-Probe and came across Ulysses which could be a medium mission to show newer players how to use Jool to get to the sun for cheap. On the other hand it would be similiar to Cassini and is more about flying the probe instead of the shuttle.

A mission to Moho, Eve, Tylo can be challenging but doable (Alchemist). In 1.3.1 I've built a "shuttle" which disintegrates itself to a LV with another shuttle on top, to land on Eve and return to Kerbin. Also visiting easter eggs might be a thing. A grand tour with a shuttle (all-in-one or separately) would be the ultimate mission I could think of, but would interfere with other challenges except for doing it with a shuttle.

Overall I think the existing missions already cover a lot of use cases and it probably won't be easy to create new ones or filling niches.

2 hours ago, hoioh said:

Do you like the "test pilot" missions? Should I make more, or should I focus on the regular, big ones?

I don't mind. Maybe the test missions are da way for more restricted missions.

2 hours ago, hoioh said:

Do you like the "reading materials" I sometimes include in the mission description, or are the pointless?

At first I was like: "I don't need that bs - let me build and fly". But tbh when I build, I read myself so many additional stuff, which I wasn't realizing until RTLS and for that it showed me how amazing it is to have some additional information I'd probably never stumbled across, without your links. So I'd say keep it, if you've informations but don't force it.

 

What I like the most about this challenge is its wide range of possibilities and creativity without a lot of constraints. It's about what you yourself want to achieve (sandbox feeling). Keep that spirit!

Edited July 2, 2018 by funk

[Kerbolitto]

Glad to see you back, hopefully you won't turn green after those holidays

 

Okay so here is my entry for STS 2b and 4 Rescue !

 

I am now using a variant of my Artisan, the v3 which is powered by 2 bobcats + 2 Nervas, I switched the 2 longs Mk2 fuel fuselage to rocket version.

It now has 1440m/s on rocket fuel, and then 3360m/s on Nervas, with no payload (which is still at 40t. max)

 

First shuttle on the launchpad with a dummy payload, you can see the tiny Mk1 crew cab above the Jumbo

 

Spoiler

Ascent at something like 40/45°

Below Kerbin, someone put diesel in the Nervas's fuel tank. They kinda choked up and swore to never again speak to the command pod, so the crew is now stranded with 2 engines on the wild.

 

Second flight readying, the Artisan v3

 

You can see a rescue mk1 lander with RCS, and the same mk1 crew cab as on the first flight.

Spoiler

Trying to minimise inclinaison change while doing the ascent : I ended up with a bit less than 6° after circularisation

Stage 2 :

Rescue Artisan undocking the 2nd stage :

Encounter after the 6° inclination change :

 

Rescuing a drifting shuttle :

 

Those Sr. ports are really usefull !

Spoiler

After transfering the crew, the 2 Artisan undocks :

 

Continuing the mission on a new objective :

 

Spoiler

I burned to push my Apoaps and minimize the change of inclination, but it was still a 640m/s maneuver :

Now the encounter is almost set up : I ended up with a 94m/s burn to catch up with the target

 

Also, rescuing a Fuel Pod !

 

Spoiler

The mk1 lander can put at use :

Packing up everything :

First of something like 3 to 4 aerobraking, I wanted to approach my Ap just above the atmosphere to get a more precise deorbiting maneuver :

Coming in JUST A BIT FAST :

 

Everybody's safe, the landing is by far the most difficult thing about this craft, it lacks lift and / or pitch authority despite having the CoL just next to the CoM.

 

As for your questions michal.don, I think that it would be cool to put some space stations or surface base on other planets,  in relation to some "roleplay" so the missions would be not too repetitive.

Maybe something like establishing a mining camp on Gilly to provide fuel for another bigger shuttle which would come later bring something above Eve, and a requirement for this shuttle to refuel in the Eve's system. Just like the Constellation's thread, with lots of requirements before actually doing the mission.

Also hoioh has some very good ideas imo, the mini shuttle would be very entertaining, something which could be limited to Mk2 and Rockmax fuselage maybe !

 

Edited July 2, 2018 by Kerbolitto

[hoioh]

Just 2 shots of my upcoming Skylab report. Finished to build and place the station in orbit and then made the first launch to raise AP and PE, then used the booster to deorbit the panels and antenna and took the Hab module back home somewhere mixed in with that. This being KSP and not real life the booster is no longer needed, but in real life it would not be an option to use it for the deorbit of the panels. They would simply be detached and would deorbit on their own. And I put a docking adapter on it as well to extend the docking arm and increase the port size so the shuttle can dock with it later when on the second mission I'll be bringing the new antenna and solar panels and for flavour I'll be replacing the panels on the side as well on that mission.

This is my station prior to any mission flying:

And from the other side:

[qzgy]

4 hours ago, Kerbolitto said:

CoL just next to the CoM.

Dry or wet? Cause it can shift....

[Kerbolitto]

16 hours ago, qzgy said:

Dry or wet? Cause it can shift....

Of course it shifts, it is a little bit behind at anytime, with or without payload, with or without fuel, I made sure to place the wings and external fuel tanks very precisely so the CoM is in the middle of the cargo bay, the 40t. fuel pod has almost 0 incidence on the shuttle's balance.

 

Thing is, wings have no incidence because they detached almost everytime when landing so I let them flat, I had only 2.5 l/d ratio at best when landing with the fuel pod.. At some point I'll have to rework it, add more wings, maybe a longer cargo bay, more engines and fuel. For now it's a bit painfull to land but everything else is all I need for the first missions.

Edited July 3, 2018 by Kerbolitto

[michal.don]

On 7/2/2018 at 2:24 PM, Scarecrow said:

Here's an entry for the Test Pilot mission STS-1T

Looking good! So, the easy one is out of the way, curious to see how RTLS will go

 

On 7/2/2018 at 10:18 PM, Kerbolitto said:

Okay so here is my entry for STS 2b and 4 Rescue !

So, the pleasant things first - the fuel pod recovery looks just fine. No wonder landings are hard, with 40t in your cargo bay

But, to the not-so-pleasant things now. If I'm not mistaken (and if I am, please correct me ASAP), you did not fly the Hubble mission (STS-3) yet. And since the missions have to be completed in the correct order, I can not award you the badge for STS-4 yet.

 

On 7/2/2018 at 11:08 PM, hoioh said:

This is my station prior to any mission flying:

Wow, very good looking station! Do I see a lot of tweakscaling going on, or is it some part mod adding all these kinds of hab modules?

 

 

About your suggestions - thank you all for your input (and if you have any more suggestions, please, do share them with me). I really like a few ideas that appeared, and they probably will shape into a mission, sooner or later.

In a near future, a new "main" mission should appear (but possibly a pretty easy one, don't expect a shuttle Jool-5 (just yet  ) ).

And I'll release a new "test pilot" mission even before that, but not sooner than at least one of you rescues the Skylab

 

Michal.don

[Kerbolitto]

I forgot to post it, as I wanted your approval on STS 2 before, thought I threw the pics but I still got 'em in my files !

 

So this is my attempt at STS-3 :

 

Launchpad with payload :

Spoiler

Circularizing at an angle :

Decoupling stuff :

Assembly is under control :

First pass in atmosphere :

Retroburn after approaching my Ap around Kerbin : You can also see the telescope final orbit

KSC is in sight, but I'm coming very low and slow at this point :

I managed a landing on the Airfield, which was reaaaally tight because I was almost at sea level with 0 speed, almost broke my F9 here :

Edited July 4, 2018 by Kerbolitto

[Agent Awesome]

Hhmm…, a few more tweaks to the STS-Titan and I’ll be ready to pick up from where I left off…

and I remember I had two MD tanks in orbit…

[hoioh]

On 7/4/2018 at 9:23 AM, michal.don said:

Wow, very good looking station! Do I see a lot of tweakscaling going on, or is it some part mod adding all these kinds of hab modules?

There's quite a bit of tweakscale going on there, but not as much as some of my designs. I wanted the station to closely resemble the original for flavour

On 7/4/2018 at 9:23 AM, michal.don said:

And I'll release a new "test pilot" mission even before that, but not sooner than at least one of you rescues the Skylab 

If i'm not mistaken somebody already has, like 2 days after you posted it, but like I said, I might be mistaken

Edited July 6, 2018 by hoioh

[funk]

A flyby heavy journey for Cassini-Huygens

 

Edited July 7, 2018 by funk