Apollo Alternate Architectures Challenge

[DAL59]

In addition to the normal Munar/lunar orbit rendezvous(MOR/LOR) architecture, NASA studied several other approaches, that involved 2 rockets.

Type 1: Earth/Kerbin Orbital Rendezvous(EOR/KOR)

Launch an unmanned lander into LKO, then dock a MK1 pod to it and perform an Apollo-style mission from there.  

Or: Launch an unmanned booster into LKO, and dock a direct-ascent lander to it(that can land on the Mun and get back to kerbin.)

My mission was that kind.

Type 2: Joint Lunar Obit Rendezvous

Launch an unmanned lander into lunar/munar orbit, then send a MK1 pod to it and perform an Apollo-style mission from there.  

Scoring:

Start with 200 points for completion.  Subtract 1 point for each part used.  Subtract 5 points for each tech node you use.  That is too hard, but if you go low-tech, you'll get the "impress me" 3x bonus.

Bonuses:

Use RSS or resized kerbin: X2

Bring a rover: X2

Lander is two stage: +10

You couldn't redock in lunar orbit and had to EVA: Divide by 2

Used Mechjeb during flight(OK in VAB): Divide by 2

Use RO: X2

Use KOS: X2

Use any Life Support Mod: X2

Use Asparagus Staging: Divide by 2

Land on minimus: Divide by 2

Instead of using a MK1 pod, used a small shuttle: X2

No fuel transfer at all: X2 

Impress me: X3

For example, if you launched a 50 part lander(parts include launcher!) and a 60 part command module, with life support, mechjeb, and asparagus staging, your score will be 45.

Leader boards

Type 1(EOR/KOR):

1. sevenperforce- 1044 points

2. DAL59- 140 points

3.

4.

5.

Type 2(LOR/MOR)

1. mk1980- 1304 points

2. sevenperforce- 316 points

3. 53miner53- 268 points

4.

5.

6.

Remember, you must launch two rockets.

Good Luck!

Edited September 6, 2017 by DAL59
More bonuses again

[53miner53]

Are procedural wings allowed?

[DAL59]

I don't see why not!  What type are you doing?

[53miner53]

  On 9/4/2017 at 9:39 PM, DAL59 said:

I don't see why not!  What type are you doing?

Expand  

The B9 style PWings from the PWings mod.

[DAL59]

I meant which architecture.  

[53miner53]

I edit shape by holding a keyboard button and dragging the mouse, if that's what you're asking. I'm not quite sure what you mean.

[DAL59]

Kerbin orbit rendezvous or Munar orbit rendezvous?

[53miner53]

  On 9/4/2017 at 9:48 PM, DAL59 said:

Kerbin orbit rendezvous or Munar orbit rendezvous?

Expand  

Oh. Munar orbit.

[linuxgurugamer]

Are other parts mods allowed, as long as they are stock alike?

[DAL59]

Sure- but nothing nuclear.  

[linuxgurugamer]

  On 9/4/2017 at 9:52 PM, DAL59 said:

Sure- but nothing nuclear.  

Expand  

Aw, shucks. You just knocked out a vessel I have in inventory which I was going to use. Massively over built,would have been more than enough to do the mission and then some.

[DAL59]

Actually, you can use it, but remember, you lose 5 points for every tech node it requires.

[linuxgurugamer]

  On 9/4/2017 at 9:57 PM, DAL59 said:

Actually, you can use it, but remember, you lose 5 points for every tech node it requires.

Expand  

I think I will do it just for giggles. Although it will probably land me at the bottom of the Heap in terms of score.

Actually, given that it's more than 300 parts, I'll be starting off in the negatives.

Edited September 4, 2017 by linuxgurugamer

[53miner53]

You might want to mention that in the OP then.

[DAL59]

If you start in the negative, the bonus multipliers won't help you 

[linuxgurugamer]

  On 9/4/2017 at 10:02 PM, DAL59 said:

If you start in the negative, the bonus multipliers won't help you 

Expand  

Of course not. Like I said, it would be for Giggles only if I use this ship

[DAL59]

I'll be gone for the rest of today.

[DAL59]

I'm back.

[sevenperforce]

I've often thought that two expendable Falcon Heavys and a rebuilt Dragon 2 could pull off a Joint Lunar Orbit Rendezvous with landing, if the Falcon 9 second stage could be equipped for extended restarts.

Anyway, the Mun in KSP is much closer, so I'll do this with two single-stick launchers.

[mk1980]

  On 9/4/2017 at 8:45 PM, DAL59 said:

Instead of using a MK1 pod, used a small shuttle: X2

Expand  

what's your definition of "small shuttle" for this challenge? simply a craft with wings & plane landing gear instead of a parachute?

can it drop part (droptanks/transfer stage) after reaching orbit?

does it have to land at KSC? (if a splashdown in the ocean is acceptable, it wouldn't even need landing gear, ie. essentially just a capsule that uses wings instead of a chute)

[53miner53]

Finished! 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0eMT8zRijNmb1oycUVYTWJqekk

edit: scoring in progress, forgot to do that

edit 2: 200-(39(shuttle)+37(lander))=124, 124+10(2stagelander)X2(shuttle)=268

Does not factor in Tech tree nodes, as I don't know what parts are in which node.

Edited September 5, 2017 by 53miner53

[sevenperforce]

All right, here you go.

First launch:

  Reveal hidden contents

36 parts on the Mun landing vehicle launcher.

Liftoff.

Turning over.

First-stage burnout.

Second stage headed for orbit. This will end up being a crasher stage.

Fairing jettison.

Completing orbital insertion.

Restart for TMI burn.

Close enough for my purposes.

Approaching cismunar space.

Orbital injection complete!

Val takes flight:

  Reveal hidden contents

16 parts on my manned stage. Threw on a probe core and a communicatron in case I have to dock from this after the landing. I probably could have figured out a way to do it without the chute but I'm not too worried.

Val doesn't seem aware that she has absolutely no LES.

First-stage burning out.

Second stage onward and upward.

Fairing jettison.

Correcting inclination during insertion burn.

Setting up intercept.

Burning for injection.

I won't actually be capturing at periapsis; I put it super low so I can intersect the lander's orbit lower.

Setting up an orbital match. Not too worried about fuel.

Intersect set up! For reasons that should be obvious, I'll switch over to the lander and complete the rendezvous from it.

Burned to match orbits.

Docking approach in the dark, which really sucks.

Docked!

Cismunar activity and landing:

  Reveal hidden contents

Transferring monoprop to the lander.

Val in the lander.

Lowered periapsis with a tiny puff.

Burning down apoapsis.

That'll do it!

Correcting inclination to make the return easier.

I won't need much fuel on my crasher stage.

Breaking free.

Deorbit burn.

Just going to burn all the way down; I've got plenty of fuel.

Easing in.

Horizontal velocity is pretty much zeroed.

Let's let the crasher stage live up to its name.

Dropping...

Kaboom!

Now to drop off the rover.

Trying not to waste too much fuel here.

Almost there...

Dropped, and off we go!

Landed.

EVA and return:

  Reveal hidden contents

Making sure the rover works.

Here's the remaining fragment of the crasher stage.

Val enjoying herself.

Going to do a little roving.

Woooooo!

I didn't test this in advance so it took a while before all the wheels were turning in the correct direction at the same time.

Getting some air. The reaction wheel in the back allows it to right itself no matter what.

Heading back to the capsule.

Gotta make sure I set these parking brakes.

Surface sample...

Eva report...

Hopping back in.

Ready to head home!

Lined up.

Liftoff!

Rolling over almost right away.

Velocity-matching.

Lining up the intercept.

Switched over to the unmanned capsule because it has more monoprop.

Closing...

Docked!

Transferring residuals to the big tank, not that it will make much difference.

Set up the return.

That's good enough!

Had twice as much fuel as I needed.

Approaching Kerbin.

Tailfirst entry, just for fun.

Burned off my fuel, heating up.

Dropped the tank.

Floating down.

Main opened.

Almost down...

Landed!

What's my score?

200 to start, minus 52 parts used, +10 for a two-stage lander, x2 for the rover. Should come to 316 points, minus whatever tech tree deductions you want to make (I'm not sure how you're doing this).

Question: the original Earth Orbit Rendezvous plan was actually EOR to Direct Ascent and would have required ten launches:

If I fly the EOR version, can I do it this way instead? This has higher dV requirements because there's no redocking in Mun orbit; you take everything down to the Mun surface with you.

Also, you should consider adding some kind of bonus for LES that would make it worth the part count.

 

[DAL59]

You can redock in mun orbit if you want.  

[DAL59]

  On 9/5/2017 at 1:04 PM, mk1980 said:

what's your definition of "small shuttle" for this challenge? simply a craft with wings & plane landing gear instead of a parachute?

can it drop part (droptanks/transfer stage) after reaching orbit?

does it have to land at KSC? (if a splashdown in the ocean is acceptable, it wouldn't even need landing gear, ie. essentially just a capsule that uses wings instead of a chute)

Expand  

Yes.  A shuttle cannot have a parachute.  There cannot be any decoupler drop tanks, but docking a booster stage is allowed.  

  On 9/5/2017 at 5:19 PM, sevenperforce said:

All right, here you go.

First launch:

  Reveal hidden contents

36 parts on the Mun landing vehicle launcher.

Liftoff.

Turning over.

First-stage burnout.

Second stage headed for orbit. This will end up being a crasher stage.

Fairing jettison.

Completing orbital insertion.

Restart for TMI burn.

Close enough for my purposes.

Approaching cismunar space.

Orbital injection complete!

Val takes flight:

  Reveal hidden contents

16 parts on my manned stage. Threw on a probe core and a communicatron in case I have to dock from this after the landing. I probably could have figured out a way to do it without the chute but I'm not too worried.

Val doesn't seem aware that she has absolutely no LES.

First-stage burning out.

Second stage onward and upward.

Fairing jettison.

Correcting inclination during insertion burn.

Setting up intercept.

Burning for injection.

I won't actually be capturing at periapsis; I put it super low so I can intersect the lander's orbit lower.

Setting up an orbital match. Not too worried about fuel.

Intersect set up! For reasons that should be obvious, I'll switch over to the lander and complete the rendezvous from it.

Burned to match orbits.

Docking approach in the dark, which really sucks.

Docked!

Cismunar activity and landing:

  Reveal hidden contents

Transferring monoprop to the lander.

Val in the lander.

Lowered periapsis with a tiny puff.

Burning down apoapsis.

That'll do it!

Correcting inclination to make the return easier.

I won't need much fuel on my crasher stage.

Breaking free.

Deorbit burn.

Just going to burn all the way down; I've got plenty of fuel.

Easing in.

Horizontal velocity is pretty much zeroed.

Let's let the crasher stage live up to its name.

Dropping...

Kaboom!

Now to drop off the rover.

Trying not to waste too much fuel here.

Almost there...

Dropped, and off we go!

Landed.

EVA and return:

  Reveal hidden contents

Making sure the rover works.

Here's the remaining fragment of the crasher stage.

Val enjoying herself.

Going to do a little roving.

Woooooo!

I didn't test this in advance so it took a while before all the wheels were turning in the correct direction at the same time.

Getting some air. The reaction wheel in the back allows it to right itself no matter what.

Heading back to the capsule.

Gotta make sure I set these parking brakes.

Surface sample...

Eva report...

Hopping back in.

Ready to head home!

Lined up.

Liftoff!

Rolling over almost right away.

Velocity-matching.

Lining up the intercept.

Switched over to the unmanned capsule because it has more monoprop.

Closing...

Docked!

Transferring residuals to the big tank, not that it will make much difference.

Set up the return.

That's good enough!

Had twice as much fuel as I needed.

Approaching Kerbin.

Tailfirst entry, just for fun.

Burned off my fuel, heating up.

Dropped the tank.

Floating down.

Main opened.

Almost down...

Landed!

What's my score?

200 to start, minus 52 parts used, +10 for a two-stage lander, x2 for the rover. Should come to 316 points, minus whatever tech tree deductions you want to make (I'm not sure how you're doing this).

Question: the original Earth Orbit Rendezvous plan was actually EOR to Direct Ascent and would have required ten launches:

If I fly the EOR version, can I do it this way instead? This has higher dV requirements because there's no redocking in Mun orbit; you take everything down to the Mun surface with you.

Also, you should consider adding some kind of bonus for LES that would make it worth the part count.

 

Expand  

  There was also another EOR plan that involved docking a Gemini capsule to a small lander.

 

 

http://www.astronautix.com/g/geminilunargemini.html

  On 9/5/2017 at 1:04 PM, mk1980 said:

does it have to land at KSC? (if a splashdown in the ocean is acceptable, it wouldn't even need landing gear, ie. essentially just a capsule that uses wings instead of a chute

Expand  

No, but to count as a shuttle, it has to look capable of land landing.

[Human Person]

  On 9/4/2017 at 8:45 PM, DAL59 said:

Used Mechjeb during flight(OK in VAB): Divide by 2

Expand  

I use Mechjeb only for information (I don't have KER because it's redundant when you have Mechjeb). Is that acceptable without penalty?