Kerbal Express Airlines - Regional Jet Challenge (Reboot)

[NightshineRecorralis]

Just now, CrazyJebGuy said:

Oh, tweak-scale. Why didn't I remember? I used to use that mod constantly!

Oh love, it's the tail boom! Why is there not a stock version of the 2.5m tail boom? It happens to be in almost all of my entered planes. Oops.

Haha yeah, I wish there was a proper 2.5m tail in SAX, but hey, the cargo ramp seems to work just fine.

I find your designs quite interesting, in a function over form kind of way. Keep up the work! I quite like the competition you're setting up here ^^

[NightshineRecorralis]

@CrazyJebGuy

I don't know how you do your calculations but this was my way:

.69l/s x 0.264172gal/l x 250m/s x 0.000621371mi/m x 1plane/384 passengers

=0.1822787gal/s x 6.437376s/mi / 384 passengers

=0.00305572012 gppm

[CrazyJebGuy]

Just now, NightshineRecorralis said:

@CrazyJebGuy

I don't know how you do your calculations but this was my way:

.69l/s x 0.264172gal/l x 250m/s x 0.000621371mi/m x 1plane/384 passengers

=0.1822787gal/s x 6.437376s/mi / 384 passengers

=0.00305572012 gppm

I should have said, (my bad on this bit) that I just call whatever units the kerbals use for liquid gallons, some other people began doing that and gallon is a nicer name than liter. (Which, they probably use)

It is really:

gppm = (fuel capacity in standard kerbal fluid unit / passenger capacity) / (range * 0.621)

I use .621 to convert to miles because it's close enough. If it was using an actual gallon, I would have specified US or Imperial. (Imperial gallon is 10lbs of water, a US gallon is a bit smaller)

Then I lop off a few digits from the end because, they are irrelevant. 0.016 is very close to 0.01618942733.

[NightshineRecorralis]

3 minutes ago, CrazyJebGuy said:

I should have said, (my bad on this bit) that I just call whatever units the kerbals use for liquid gallons, some other people began doing that and gallon is a nicer name than liter. (Which, they probably use)

It is really:

gppm = (fuel capacity in standard kerbal fluid unit / passenger capacity) / (range * 0.621)

I use .621 to convert to miles because it's close enough. If it was using an actual gallon, I would have specified US or Imperial. (Imperial gallon is 10lbs of water, a US gallon is a bit smaller)

Then I lop off a few digits from the end because, they are irrelevant. 0.016 is very close to 0.01618942733.

Ok, cool! Never really seen this brought up elsewhere.

Perhaps I should also mention that the ranges I put in are conservative and it is certainly possible to fly farther if you tweak the speeds and altitudes the planes fly at.

So in an ideal world, the gppm would be 0.0116 or thereabouts, though it would obviously be higher in testing.

[CrazyJebGuy]

1 minute ago, NightshineRecorralis said:

Ok, cool! Never really seen this brought up elsewhere.

Perhaps I should also mention that the ranges I put in are conservative and it is certainly possible to fly farther if you tweak the speeds and altitudes the planes fly at.

So in an ideal world, the gppm would be 0.0116 or thereabouts, though it would obviously be higher in testing.

Yeah with my replacing the tail booms, I am just replacing it with some stock crap, it looks like garbage but it has a bit of extra fuel and then I'm just going to say "close enough", keep all my descriptions and such as is, even with the originals available for download.

 

By your first line, do you mean the different gallon sizes? An Imperial Gallon is 4.5liters (about) and a US one is about 3.7.

[NightshineRecorralis]

1 minute ago, CrazyJebGuy said:

Yeah with my replacing the tail booms, I am just replacing it with some stock crap, it looks like garbage but it has a bit of extra fuel and then I'm just going to say "close enough", keep all my descriptions and such as is, even with the originals available for download.

 

By your first line, do you mean the different gallon sizes? An Imperial Gallon is 4.5liters (about) and a US one is about 3.7.

From what I've seen, it seems that people agree (from the limited perspective I have) that 1 LF or OX unit is 1 liter/litre. The fact that you are using gallons (or kallons) is just new to me.

the fact that there are different gallons only reinforces my point.

[CrazyJebGuy]

Just now, NightshineRecorralis said:

From what I've seen, it seems that people agree (from the limited perspective I have) that 1 LF or OX unit is 1 liter/litre. The fact that you are using gallons (or kallons) is just new to me.

the fact that there are different gallons only reinforces my point.

What point would that be? (Not being rude, I just haven't seen something looking like a point involving gallons here) If it's that there are two confusing standards, I agree. I think they should just use the Imperial gallon. But it's too costly to change, so we're probably stuck with two conflicting units.

[NightshineRecorralis]

1 minute ago, CrazyJebGuy said:

What point would that be? (Not being rude, I just haven't seen something looking like a point involving gallons here) If it's that there are two confusing standards, I agree. I think they should just use the Imperial gallon. But it's too costly to change, so we're probably stuck with two conflicting units.

Being heavily invested in metric, I really don't see a point to using Imperial measurements even after many years of using both interchangeably. But that's just me, this information does provide another data point that's useful for reference.

[CrazyJebGuy]

Just now, NightshineRecorralis said:

Being heavily invested in metric, I really don't see a point to using Imperial measurements even after many years of using both interchangeably. But that's just me, this information does provide another data point that's useful for reference.

Oh I was taught metric in school, and then I taught myself the Imperial system, I can think in both systems. (Except for temperatures, they take longer to switch systems) I genuinely think the Imperial system is better. I work in both and when I work in Imperial I make less mistakes, because it is slightly harder, so I pay attention. In this world of $1 calculators (like this tiny 1.8" thing http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Plastic-Digits-LCD-Display-Pocket-Cartoon-Small-Travel-Mini-Portable-Calculator/182860822303?hash=item2a935ab71f:g:NL4AAOSw0exZ9Cpb)  I think a bit harder arithmetic is a price worth paying for making less dumb mistakes, having stuff be easier to visualize, (some Metric units are very un-natural. Imperial was made by people just using stuff that seemed natural, like feet) and having nicer names. (Kilometer, mile. Pound, kilogram. Centimeter, Inch, etc)

 

But reguardless of which you prefer, I recommend knowing both. (You can skip some not often used units, like fathoms and cubits) Actually, I really like Nautical miles. They are exactly 1 minute of movement on the earths surface. (6,080 ft, 800 ft more than a regular mile) Furlongs (1/8 mile) are neat too.

[Not Sure]

Say you need to bring 160+ kerbals 3/4th the way around kerbin but just turning around to fly the other 1/4 is too mainstream for you, you need the (ASEI) B-1337 "Swift Moon".

The B-1337 is the fastest, biggest, and loudest airliner you will ever come across. Mach 1 too slow for you? How about mach 2, no? 3? How about 4. Yea, we lose money if we go below Mach 4.

Nobody's quite sure whether to call this an airliner, or a supersonic plane as it likes to be both. 

Thats 2600mph for you earthlings out there. 

The B-1337 (https://kerbalx.com/Pyro_Fire/NS-B-1337-Swift-Moon) is marketed as a Jumbo Jet with a passenger capacity of 168 passengers with 4 crew. 

All of this comes at a reasonable price of 279,000,000 spesos, with a recommended speed of 1200m/s and an altitude of 20km. 

It features economy and first class seating with the first class getting the view of a lifetime in the upper crew cabins. Rumor is, this plane goes so fast you feel 60% lighter while at cruising speed. 

When it comes to range this craft can travel 4,300km in 45 min. Its fuel cost per flight is 4,800,000 spesos, making each ticket cost 28,570 spesos for a full flight. 

Spoiler

(the Swift Moon when not in phoenix mode)

 

Edited November 4, 2017 by Not Sure

[logman]

Hey, I am starting to think that this contest isn't going anywhere, the judge hasn't been on in over a week and I posted two aircraft nearly two months ago and neither has been judged. This is getting old.

[NightshineRecorralis]

34 minutes ago, logman said:

Hey, I am starting to think that this contest isn't going anywhere, the judge hasn't been on in over a week and I posted two aircraft nearly two months ago and neither has been judged. This is getting old.

Shh... I'm sure it's fine. The OP would probably have told us by now if he/she was no longer judging.

@Mjp1050 Could you give us a little information? Like maybe a list of planes to be judged in the main thread?

 

Anyways, here's a little teaser of what I'm currently testing.

[panzerknoef]

52 minutes ago, logman said:

Hey, I am starting to think that this contest isn't going anywhere, the judge hasn't been on in over a week and I posted two aircraft nearly two months ago and neither has been judged. This is getting old.

Yeah I've the same worries, OP is gone and judging was already miles behind anyways... It's a shame, this contest is a great one still. Maybe OP should consider taking on other test pilots, obviously people with good writing skills and an unbiased opinion ( eg someone who hasn't sent in any planes). For now we can only wait and see, hopefully OP will show up and save the day. 

[Samwise Potato]

I would honestly be willing to withdraw my aircraft from the competition and sign on as an assistant judge if needed.

Edited November 5, 2017 by Samwise Potato

[shdwlrd]

5 hours ago, logman said:

Hey, I am starting to think that this contest isn't going anywhere, the judge hasn't been on in over a week and I posted two aircraft nearly two months ago and neither has been judged. This is getting old.

I've stopped worrying about this a couple weeks in. Don't care if my crafts get judged or not. ca la vie. 

[panzerknoef]

11 hours ago, Samwise Potato said:

I would honestly be willing to withdraw my aircraft from the competition and sign on as an assistant judge if needed.

The sad thing here kinda is that that's a call for the OP to make mostly. We can ofc just take the right on our own hands and presume OP is gonna be fine with it (which I do think actually). The only thing we sadly can't do is edit the main post, but if OP ever does return he can just add everything right away and resume judging where assistants stopped. 

 

We could also just allow anyone to judge any plane that isn't theirs, but I'm kinda sceptical about that. 

Edited November 5, 2017 by panzerknoef

[qzgy]

About the hiatus of the current judge - I would not worry too much. IRL stuff get in the way sometime and its easier to let things happen rather than give flak for it. And for the idea of having multiple suggestions, I would let the OP decide that, but it might help get through the massive backlog of craft. Each person can take 1 or 2 craft that isn't theirs and help with the judging, under some premise that judging has been outsourced.

Pinging @Mjp1050. Just to check.

[panzerknoef]

6 hours ago, qzgy said:

About the hiatus of the current judge - I would not worry too much. IRL stuff get in the way sometime and its easier to let things happen rather than give flak for it. And for the idea of having multiple suggestions, I would let the OP decide that, but it might help get through the massive backlog of craft. Each person can take 1 or 2 craft that isn't theirs and help with the judging, under some premise that judging has been outsourced.

Pinging @Mjp1050. Just to check.

I do agree, having additional judges would work for catching up with the massive amount of stacked up aircraft, but once they've caught up, additional judges aren't really needed anymore. Besides, I'm sure OP will return, pretty sure he said something about having exams somewhere in the thread.

 

Anyways, after a small absence KnoefCo Aerospace has returned with new aircraft! Today we shall be introducing 4 of them, many more are in storage, but as long as there isn't any judging being done, I'll keep them there.

First of all, a set of 2 turboprop aircraft. The Bx-1 "Shoebox" and the Bx-2 "Sturdy Shoebox". Both sharing most of their design apart from the cockpit, the Bx-2 has an actual cockpit just in case the pilot isn't okay with flying blind.

Bx-1 "Shoebox"

It's about as ugly as an airplane gets, so ugly in fact that you can hardly call it an airplane. This is the absolute minimum you can have and still carry 24 passengers around with relative safety and comfort. To cut cost we've used an actual space capsule as a cockpit, this obviously has the drawback of a pilot who can't see where he's going, but hey... It was cheap! We've also opted to completely scrap roll rudders and leave that work to the reaction wheels in the pod. The Shoebox is powered by 2 Juno engines which have been taped on at the back of the plane. No worries, that's the only tape we've used, everything else is glued on. The Bx-1 can maintain a speed of 160m/s at 5000m, thanks to the good efficiency of the Juno's, and 400 units of fuel, this gives us a range of 910km. It also has a mere 23 parts! 

The total price for a fully fueled up Bx-1 "Shoebox" is a ridiculously low 6.455.000 funds.

Get yours here now: https://kerbalx.com/Panzerknoef/Bx-1-Shoebox

 

The Bx-2 "Sturdy Shoebox"

Much the same as the Bx-1, except for the fact that an actual cockpit with windows has been glued on the front here. It meant we also had to add an air intake at the back and a bigger tail. All this extra mass sadly did have an effect on the performance. The Sturdy Shoebox cruises at an identical 5000m, but only manages 150m/s. This gives it a range of 850km, 60km lower than the Bx-1. She also takes off a bit slower, 55m/s instead of the 50 the Bx-1 manages. This one counts 24 parts.

Price for a Bx-2 "Sturdy Shoebox"? Still insanely low, fully fueled up it costs 7.130.000 funds.

Get yours at: https://kerbalx.com/Panzerknoef/Bx-2-Sturdy-Shoebox

 

Now, moving on to the more serious work, time for another supersonic plane. There's one thing it has in common with the previous planes though, a very low price for its class. 

Presenting... The Dotsero

The Dotsero is a very capable supersonic plane which outdoes pretty much all the design requirements, and that at a very low price. It's also exceptionally comfortable as the engine is located all the way at the back of the plane, with it being separated from those cabins by 2 more fuel tanks which offer sound suppression. As the image shows, it's built up in 2 levels, with the fuel riding on top of the cabins. Not only does this allow the plane to be fairly short, thanks to the higher center of mass, the wings could also be placed above the windows. This allows for excellent view as the plane cruises at 20km. At its cruising altitude it can manage speeds in excess of 1200m/s, but we recommend you keep it at 1200m/s. Once this speed has been reached, you can throttle down to 2/3 which gives excellent efficiency. The 1960 units of fuel are more than enough to feed the single engine. When cruising in the recommended settings, it achieves 0.34 units a second while blasting along at 1200m/s. Combined with the 1960 units of fuel, this gives us a range of roughly 7000km (Very pessimistic estimate, with proper flying range could be over 10.000km). More than enough for every conceivable trip on Kerbin! The Dotsero carries the mandatory 40 passengers. She also has a lowish part count of 34, which combined with the single engine design should allow for easy maintenance. 

Now, the most important bit... The price! The Dotsero will set you back a mere 22.659.000 funds. Now I'm not the one to talk objectively about my this, but I think that's an absolute bargain for the capabilities it offers!

Purchase link: https://kerbalx.com/Panzerknoef/Dotsero

 

But we've also constructed an even cheaper variant of the Dotsero, the Dotsero-EC.

Just in case you thought 7000km of range was a bit overkill, we got you covered. By stripping 3 fuel tanks of the top of the standard Dotsero, and adding a cheaper air intake, we got to this, the Dotsero-EC. We've also made the airbrake optional, just in case you wanna save some more money. Just like the standard version, it carries 40 kerbals and is powered by a single ramjet engine. Cruising speed and height also remain the same, at 1200m/s and 20km respectively. The one thing that has changed a lot is obviously the range. This version only has 760 units of fuel, and while that might indeed not sound like a lot, it's plenty, really! At 20km the EC manages fuel efficiencies of 0.40 (0.40 is a very high estimate, actual consumption is likely a lot lower) and below. Just as with the standard version, just throttle down to 2/3 once at cruising speed and altitude. So even with the vastly reduced fuel supply, the Dotsero-EC still has a range of 2200km! (though more optimistic calculations, 0.3 fuel consumption, put her well in the 3000km range ballpark) She also has a reduced part count, now only 30.

But you wanna know what's the best of all? The price! The Dotsero-EC can be bought for 18.009.000 funds! You'd be crazy not to get one.

Buy yours here now: https://kerbalx.com/Panzerknoef/Dotsero-EC

For more pictures of all craft: https://imgur.com/a/Vl7zT

Edited November 5, 2017 by panzerknoef

[RedPandaz]

Aagh I've been delaying entry so long

I'll work on something tonight

[ItCameFromDuna]

Don't know if this has been mentioned already, but  have an idea for a variant of this challenge: A FAR version.

[RedPandaz]

I made a VTOL passenger plane, I'll enter it soon

[Steel Starling]

After much anticipation, Starling Industries brings you the SI-R-1 "Puddlejumper" series of Twin Engine Turboprop aircraft.

 

SI-R-1 "Puddlejumper"

https://imgur.com/J0Dm0M8

With a price starting at 32,861,000 funds per aircraft, the Puddlejumper is a Twin Turboprop aircraft, carrying up to 32 passengers with a small cargo section for extra storage space. The R-1 is an easy aircraft to control, able to take off and accelerate rapidly. The R-1, along with the rest of its series also features a retractable wheel attached to the tail connector used to prevent an accidental tail collision on takeoff and landing. The R-1 also has the ability to perform deadstick landings, allowing for extra flight time in an emergency. Some variations come with extra fuel in back cargo section to be used in an emergency (not factored into range calculations).

Range: ~1465km at optimal speed and altitude

Cruising Altitude: 3180m

Cruising Speed: 146-147m/s

Link: http://bit.ly/2idoEgx

 

SI-R-1a "Puddlejumper Scout"

https://imgur.com/x4X4UKP

Built for trips through the Desert and the Tundra, the Puddlejumper Scout an aircraft for short-range treks over dangerous terrain. With a price starting at 35,853,500 funds per aircraft, the R-1a is designed especially for flights to the outer frontiers of the Kerbin world. Able to land on any terrain, the R-1a can service any airport, and, despite its shorter range, the Scout comes equipped with a mining drill, converter, and more tanks, allowing for the creation of extra fuel when and where none is available, extending the theoretical range of the aircraft almost infinitely. The aircraft also has an emergency beacon and transmitter, along with fuel cells and solar panels, allowing for precious extra power in an emergency.

Range: ~1120km at optimal speed and altitude (Mining Pack extends indefinitely)

Cruising Altitude: 3180m

Cruising Speed: 130-131m/s

Link: http://bit.ly/2iUEw7f

 

SI-R-1b "Puddlejumper Extended Range"

https://imgur.com/8aHCJTR

While much slower and less maneuverable, the Puddlejumper Extended Range makes up for this by allowing for long-range treks. With a price starting at 32,975,000 funds per aircraft, the R-1b is designed especially for long-distance flights, with a maximum range roughly equivalent to half of Kerbin's equatorial circumference. The R-1b also has no extra storage capacity, as it is fully loaded with fuel.

Range: ~1822km at optimal speed and altitude

Cruising Altitude: 3180m

Cruising Speed: 116m/s

Link: http://bit.ly/2zExBsY

 

Edited November 13, 2017 by Steel Starling
Forgot the Craft Files...Sigh

[panzerknoef]

With @Mjp1050 already gone for 3 weeks, I say we might have to start considering judging the aircraft ourselves. If anyone still cares that is.

[GDJ]

I think the amount of submissions overwhelmed him. Mjp1050 probably only got a third of them done.
IF we are going to test each others planes we should call off any new entries as of today.

[panzerknoef]

2 hours ago, GDJ said:

I think the amount of submissions overwhelmed him. Mjp1050 probably only got a third of them done.
IF we are going to test each others planes we should call off any new entries as of today.

I don't even think he got a third tbh, but that's irrelevant. He did put the bar very high with his reviews. Having to do that for such a load of content is a loooot work ofc. 

We should yeah, at least until we catch up with the last submission, after that we can see again.