kerbiloid Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 5 hours ago, DDE said: MS-22 to be scuttled. In a lake. Or a river. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted January 11, 2023 Author Share Posted January 11, 2023 They're gonna send stuff back in it. So normal return, but they say it might get to be in the low 40° regime inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 5 minutes ago, tater said: They're gonna send stuff back in it. So normal return, but they say it might get to be in the low 40° regime inside. Yes, so with this ship's luck they will miss the desert ground and splash in a lake in the middle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soyuz_23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDE Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 2 hours ago, kerbiloid said: In a lake. Or a river. 2 hours ago, tater said: in the low 40° regime inside. Well, when you gotta chill fast... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 https://www.interfax.ru/world/880352 https://www.interfax.ru/world/880353 https://www.interfax.ru/russia/880346 https://www.interfax.ru/russia/880370 NASA is agreed with the Roscosmos conclusions. Everything tells that it's a meteoroid hit. No known meteor shower is found guilty. They continue the study. The uncrewed MS-22 will return 1..2 weeks after the MS-23 arrival. The MS-22 crew will stay on ISS for several months more than planned. The next Soyuz crew will fly in autumn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beccab Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 (edited) Obviously, if a country has enough free seats in its own ready-to-use ship, it swaps the crew schedule and uses its ship, instead of asking somebody for help, exactly for political reasons, not just because it can. Edited January 12, 2023 by kerbiloid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beccab Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 2 hours ago, kerbiloid said: ready-to-use ship lmao, that's an interesting way to call MS-22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 1 hour ago, Beccab said: lmao, that's an interesting way to call MS-22 It's a way to call MS-23, which was to fly in March, but will in February. Just accept it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDE Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 (edited) 17 hours ago, Beccab said: More importantly, it's never too late to start moving seats. I'm wondering what the docking port situation is, and whether they can arrange for both MS-22 and MS-23 to fit in. Edited January 13, 2023 by DDE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K^2 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 31 minutes ago, DDE said: I'm wondering what the docking port situation is, and whether they can arrange for both MS-22 and MS-23 to fit in. Don't the Progress cargo ships use the same docking port, meaning there's always room for a second Soyuz if needed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beccab Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 11 hours ago, kerbiloid said: It's a way to call MS-23, which was to fly in March, but will in February. Just accept it. What? I'm talking about MS-22, the only lifeboat the Russians on the ISS currently in case of an accident have because of political choices. What are you talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDE Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 1 hour ago, K^2 said: Don't the Progress cargo ships use the same docking port, meaning there's always room for a second Soyuz if needed? Exactly. But there's usually a Progress around as well to serve as a garbage bin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 1 hour ago, Beccab said: What? I'm talking about MS-22, the only lifeboat the Russians on the ISS currently in case of an accident have because of political choices. What are you talking about? Here only you are talking about something. I don't see a reason to use another one's thing when you have your own. Or should they wait until the Starship can help? The ISS will deorbit soonerr. Or should they ask for Dragon seats? But then you would flood the thread with "Wow! They need a Dragon!" by an order of magnitude more. So, they do it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K^2 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 15 hours ago, kerbiloid said: It's a way to call MS-23, which was to fly in March, but will in February. Just accept it. The Twitter post specifically talks about the seat assignment in case of emergency between now and MS-23 arrival. There was an option on the table to assign the two Russian cosmonauts to the Dragon Crew-5, as it can handle additional seats for an emergency landing. Crew Dragon is specifically rated up to 7 occupants. But Roscosmos opted instead to keep their cosmonauts assigned to MS-22. Meaning, if there is a catastrophic event in the next few weeks, and there is no time to communicate for the new orders, everyone but the two Russian cosmonauts will get into the nominally safe Crew-5, and the two Russians will head to the MS-22 and attempt to land on that. Is this likely to come up? Not at all. Does it make that an even sadder example of posturing by Roscosmos? Absolutely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve9728 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 Actually, I think the Russians could have an emergency rescue plan like the Chinese do, where they can launch a backup manned spacecraft up within a week. And it wouldn't be complicated, it would just be a matter of assembling the back-up rocket and spacecraft in advance to near completion and putting them in the factory. And that back-up is the next rocket going to station. But, well, how about add some bulletproof plate-like thing on the key places on Soyuz? You see, it's reliable enough and I don't think would weigh much more if you just added a few plates. Just don't know will these plates affect the cooling system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K^2 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 16 minutes ago, steve9728 said: But, well, how about add some bulletproof plate-like thing on the key places on Soyuz? There's no such thing as "bulletproof" when the impacting bodies average ~10km/s relative. A hard metal plate will just generate more shrapnel. You want the micro-asteroids to punch through-and-through, leaving a small puncture hole that's as easy to patch up as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDE Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 1 hour ago, steve9728 said: Actually, I think the Russians could have an emergency rescue plan like the Chinese do, where they can launch a backup manned spacecraft up within a week. We don't. Or, rather, we do, and you're looking at it - MS-23's accelerated launch is the predeveloped rescue plan. 1 hour ago, steve9728 said: But, well, how about add some bulletproof plate-like thing on the key places on Soyuz? This is the version of the Soyuz with beefed-up micrometeoroid protection, developed under NASA's requirements for the rideshare program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 In case of emergency for the whole ISS they can try the MS-22, they don't need to stay in orbit for days, they need a deorbit burn. But to the moment there is no emergency, and they will happily wait for MS-23. As we can see, the Dragon-seat hype is entirely on the US side, so the political reasons seem being located erroneously. If someone can do on his own, it's a strange bad taste to start taking others' things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDE Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 22 minutes ago, kerbiloid said: As we can see, the Dragon-seat hype is entirely on the US side Indeed, it seems the US space commentariat has invented a plan it considers brilliant, and assumes that someone could only disagree with it out of pride or stupidity. More interestingly, where does the assumption that Dragon's extra seat mountings are at all compatible with Kazbek seats even come from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beccab Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 28 minutes ago, DDE said: More interestingly, where does the assumption that Dragon's extra seat mountings are at all compatible with Kazbek seats even come from? Probably from the fact that Rubio's seat is going to be relocated to Dragon until MS-23 is ready Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beccab Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 "On Thursday, Jan. 12, the International Space Station mission management team polled “go” to move NASA astronaut Frank Rubio’s Soyuz seat liner from the Soyuz MS-22 spacecraft to Dragon Endurance to provide lifeboat capabilities in the event Rubio would need to return to Earth because of an emergency evacuation from the space station. The seat liner move is scheduled to begin Tuesday, Jan. 17, with installation and configuration continuing through most of the day Wednesday, Jan. 18." I truly wonder where the idea that the two are compatible came from Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 Nobody except several persons from US had said even a word about using the Dragon, but the delta-V produced by someone's (firehurt) could already deorbit the whole ISS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDE Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 Interesting court case here. One in a spaghetti of cases concerning the head of Lavochkin and the former head of Energia was a case of abuse of power (which, may correspond to corruption when the actual bribe or grift cannot be evidenced) during their tenure in leading Energomash. The accusation is that in 2015, the defendants amended the agreement between Energomash and AmRoss LLC (the joint venture with P&W) under which it would be granted "the right to use patents and technical documentation of rocket engines manufactured in Russia for production, repair, testing, technical support and use in the United States" starting in 2022. Assessed damages for this unilateral concession are RUB 662 mln. https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/5760649?tg The timing of 2022 is amusing... but the concession itself wasn't as grave as I thought, since apparently Amross was licensed to produce RD-180s in the US to begin with, or at least they acted like they were back in 2014. That said, we may be seeing some of the behind-the-curtain dealings around the fate of Atlas V, and past efforts to ensure continuous engine supply before Vulcan was fully approved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 https://www.interfax.ru/world/880743 The MS-22 crew will return as planned in MS-23. In case of emergency, Francisco Rubio will return in Dragon (his seat is being relocated), while two Russian crewmen in MS-22. (This will also help because two men produce less heat than three). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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