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[UNOFFICIAL/FANMADE] 0.17 Discussion Thread 2

kacperrutka26

By kacperrutka26
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anaximander

anaximander

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Yeah, I think it's safe to say that docking is the next Big Thing the game really needs (of the things that haven't already been announced, that is). Launching large ships to other planets is almost definitely going to be difficult - docking would allow us to build things in orbit, saving us a huge chunk of dV. Alternatively, a Mission Planner screen that allows you to mess about with time would be nice. That way you could drag, say, the Mun to where you need it to be to slingshot off it, and it'd give you a launch window time to aim for. It'd make it much easier to pull off complex trips involving the various bodies.

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Shadownailshot

Shadownailshot

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It's not really a matter of parts. It's a matter of skill. Getting to Minmus is easier than getting to the Mun and can easily be done on stock parts.

Planets are for those who have pretty much mastered lunar flight and want a new challenge. If you are having trouble landing on the Mun or Minmus, you should concentrate on improving your skills first.

What we do need is docking, but that's a major functionality of the game, not just a matter or parts. Until then, it sill be extremely hard to handle interplanetary travel.

I'd have to agree, minmus is much easier than the mun, even when you factor in the plane change to get there, simply because the orbital maneuvers around minmus are much less fuel-intensive under the lower gravity and lower relative velocity. Landing is also very easy under this low gravity.

I would agree that, yes, interplanetary travel will be hard without docking, the ships that reach the extra-kerbin-SOI targets will be small, and coming back will be of an even greater challenge. I agree with the 2 ships approach as long as you are not adverse to leaving your lander at the destination.

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kacperrutka26

kacperrutka26

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Yeah, I think it's safe to say that docking is the next Big Thing the game really needs (of the things that haven't already been announced, that is). Launching large ships to other planets is almost definitely going to be difficult - docking would allow us to build things in orbit, saving us a huge chunk of dV. Alternatively, a Mission Planner screen that allows you to mess about with time would be nice. That way you could drag, say, the Mun to where you need it to be to slingshot off it, and it'd give you a launch window time to aim for. It'd make it much easier to pull off complex trips involving the various bodies.

Please stay on topic with 0.17 Discussion thread, not what will be implemented in the future. Thanks!

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MrMoog

MrMoog

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I'd have to agree, minmus is much easier than the mun, even when you factor in the plane change to get there, simply because the orbital maneuvers around minmus are much less fuel-intensive under the lower gravity and lower relative velocity. Landing is also very easy under this low gravity.

I would agree that, yes, interplanetary travel will be hard without docking, the ships that reach the extra-kerbin-SOI targets will be small, and coming back will be of an even greater challenge. I agree with the 2 ships approach as long as you are not adverse to leaving your lander at the destination.

I think they left docking exactly for that reason. It would be too easy to reach other planets: assemble an insane generic ship in orbit and reach any planet without problem. Without docking, we'll have a real challenge to get there, and even more to get back to Kerbin. We may have to design ship tailored to each planet, because getting to Eve will be a different challenge than reaching the third moon of Jool.

My two ships approach is really coming along nicely. I've reach the point where the same launcher vehicle is used for the two ships, that are practically the same weight and size. The plan is to leave part of the lander as a permanent base that can hold 10 kerbals in 2 crewtanks.

I'm planning a third ship based on the same design, only replacing the lander/base with a rover/MoLab and a skycrane.

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Oggula

Oggula

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My current 3 man lander has 6500 delta V left after orbit, which should be easily enough to land with parachutes and return to Kerbin on every planet/moon except Eve, which is larger and has a denser atmosphere. For Eve i'll use the two ship method, land 2 men in a 3 man pod, take off and orbit, then rendezvous with an identical return ship with 2 spaces.

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Shadownailshot

Shadownailshot

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I think they left docking exactly for that reason. It would be too easy to reach other planets: assemble an insane generic ship in orbit and reach any planet without problem. Without docking, we'll have a real challenge to get there, and even more to get back to Kerbin. We may have to design ship tailored to each planet, because getting to Eve will be a different challenge than reaching the third moon of Jool.

My two ships approach is really coming along nicely. I've reach the point where the same launcher vehicle is used for the two ships, that are practically the same weight and size. The plan is to leave part of the lander as a permanent base that can hold 10 kerbals in 2 crewtanks.

I'm planning a third ship based on the same design, only replacing the lander/base with a rover/MoLab and a skycrane.

Docking was left because it's more than just attaching things together, you have to really make 2+ ships into one ship, in orbit, outside the VAB or SPH. This requires a ton of new code.

But back on topic though, the two ships concept can be done with a crewtank, no? Then you can send fully crewed ships to other planets and bring them back without leaving anyone behind. Just load the extra guys into the crewtank on the orbital module. This way, you can have your different landers for each planet, but use the same crew-retrieval vessel, given that it has enough fuel to reach these other targets.

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MrMoog

MrMoog

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Docking was left because it's more than just attaching things together, you have to really make 2+ ships into one ship, in orbit, outside the VAB or SPH. This requires a ton of new code.

But back on topic though, the two ships concept can be done with a crewtank, no? Then you can send fully crewed ships to other planets and bring them back without leaving anyone behind. Just load the extra guys into the crewtank on the orbital module. This way, you can have your different landers for each planet, but use the same crew-retrieval vessel, given that it has enough fuel to reach these other targets.

I know docking requires a lot of new code and testing, but the devs still took the decision to prioritize planets before it, I was only guessing one possible reason for their reasoning.

As for the 2 ships, the plan is to get everyone back. But the lander is designed to allow some to stay behind and start a permanent colony, if wanted. The ascent vehicle detaches from the lander before lift off to save weight. Something akin to the Apollo mission profile, except that the LM and the CM are sent on two separate ships, and the lower part of the LM can be be used as habitat. Crewtanks are omnipresent in my designs, it really is a useful part. :)

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dragonfree97

dragonfree97

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I spent a while learning how to make add-ons for Celestia and made on based on the information we have about 0.17's solar system. I took screenshots and uploaded. Link

I realise Minmus would look much better with a heightmap. Does anyone know of any Minmus heightmaps that are compatible with Celestia?

  • Kerbol - I had the figure 66500km in my head from somewhere.
  • Moho - Conjecture, 200km radius
  • Eve - Released, 700km radius
  • Gilly - Released, 26km radius
  • Kerbin - In game, 600km radius
  • Mún - In game, 200km radius
  • Minmus, In game, 60km radius
  • Duna - Conjecture, based on Earth:Mars ratio, 320km radius
  • Ike - Conjecture, based on Pluto:Charon ratio, 170km radius
  • Jool - Nova's old thread, 2700km radius
  • Laythe - Nova's old thread, 350km radius
  • Tylo - Conjecture, 200km radius
  • Vall - Conjecture, 175km radius
  • Bop - Conjecture, 50km radius

Edited by dragonfree97
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Shadownailshot

Shadownailshot

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Have i understand it correct:

Are you making a placeable Camera??

These arejust on the helmets on kerbals, pretty cool isn't it.

No one said this was official. Nova, so far, has only been showing us stock and mod parts. Nothing official and new.

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Polar Bear

Polar Bear

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These arejust on the helmets on kerbals, pretty cool isn't it.

If you were thinking of the pic that Novasilisko posted of the ship and the kerbal shadow, look again:

First group of stitched-together images returned by the Kerbonaut-mounted camera* on the Science-y Lander 1 (SL1) mission to Bop:

pNjjE.jpg

[highlight]*As in, I manually placed the camera in front of him[/highlight]

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Anomalous_Matter

Anomalous_Matter

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Still hoping for an inclusion of the orbit-debug thing in the debug menu in-game. Seeing as my main method of transport will be getting into a solar orbit with a chance to intersect any planet and waiting, it'd be nice to just teleport, say, a lander prototype into a 100KM orbit around the planet and test it from there.

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NovaSilisko

NovaSilisko

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Still hoping for an inclusion of the orbit-debug thing in the debug menu in-game. Seeing as my main method of transport will be getting into a solar orbit with a chance to intersect any planet and waiting, it'd be nice to just teleport, say, a lander prototype into a 100KM orbit around the planet and test it from there.

Not gonna happen. It's probably the buggiest thing in the game right now (and that's saying something :P)

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MrMoog

MrMoog

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Still hoping for an inclusion of the orbit-debug thing in the debug menu in-game. Seeing as my main method of transport will be getting into a solar orbit with a chance to intersect any planet and waiting, it'd be nice to just teleport, say, a lander prototype into a 100KM orbit around the planet and test it from there.

The closest to this right now is using the infinite fuel tool with MechJeb's auto-ascent function. Once in orbit, deactivate the infinite fuel, and you're ready to go. That's how I test upper stages and powered landers before building the launch vehicle.

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Enture

Enture

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I spent a while learning how to make add-ons for Celestia and made on based on the information we have about 0.17's solar system. I took screenshots and uploaded. Link

Wow. This idea, right there: Kerbol System rendered in Celestia... GENIUS! :D Great job, it really gives a first feeling of what we can expect!

Do you plan to upload it to the Celestia Motherlode or anything?

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CaptRobau

CaptRobau

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I know docking requires a lot of new code and testing, but the devs still took the decision to prioritize planets before it, I was only guessing one possible reason for their reasoning.

As for the 2 ships, the plan is to get everyone back. But the lander is designed to allow some to stay behind and start a permanent colony, if wanted. The ascent vehicle detaches from the lander before lift off to save weight. Something akin to the Apollo mission profile, except that the LM and the CM are sent on two separate ships, and the lower part of the LM can be be used as habitat. Crewtanks are omnipresent in my designs, it really is a useful part. :)

What's the mod with the crew tanks, can't find it anywhere.

In response to the 'how-to-easily-get-in-a-certain-orbit', there are several warp mods out there.

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dragonfree97

dragonfree97

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Wow. This idea, right there: Kerbol System rendered in Celestia... GENIUS! :D Great job, it really gives a first feeling of what we can expect!

Do you plan to upload it to the Celestia Motherlode or anything?

I'm going to now. Just want to change a few orbital parameters (namely orbital periods) and Duna's texture (it's so low res it makes me depressed)

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