[1.12.x] Whirligig World Planetary System: An Absurd Homeworld In An Alien Solar System. 0.13.0: Dermun! Ice worlds! Better Scatterer!

[Ultimate Steve]

5 minutes ago, GregroxMun said:

Found here: http://www.josleys.com/show_gallery.php?galid=313

This, alongside Jacobi triaxial ellipsoids and Maclaurin oblate spheroids, is an example of a possible equilibrium shape for "whirligig" planets. It's called the Poincare Pear. It's my new favorite shape and, even though I couldn't possible do it realistically in a way that would let the surface gravity be pointing parallel to the surface everywhere, I *really* want to put one in Whirligig World. The mod's supposed to be pretty much system-complete I know but come on. It's a golly danged to hecking kraken "pear."

Imagine trying to drive a rover down that steep of a slope... You'd have to keep any base to pretty much one of 6 landing points to keep it from falling downhill! This would certainly be interesting... I think there's a decent amount of space around Gememma but if there's room I'd put it a bit closer if I were you.

[Whirligig Girl]

1 minute ago, Ultimate Steve said:

Imagine trying to drive a rover down that steep of a slope... You'd have to keep any base to pretty much one of 6 landing points to keep it from falling downhill! This would certainly be interesting... I think there's a decent amount of space around Gememma but if there's room I'd put it a bit closer if I were you.

Well remember that if it's working correctly, there will be no slope at all. The centrifugal force combined with the gravity will always even out, that's the whole point of an equilibrium shape!

 

Mesbin is not an actual equilibrium state, unfortunately, because its mass is not evenly distributed and I don't know what the shape should be if all the mass is concentrated in the center--there is not really any work done on the equilibrium forms of Kerbal planets! Mesklin was later calculated to be lens-shaped due to internal differentiation, and I've seen some more simulations of lens-shaped rapidly spinning planets with internal differentiation as well. The question is, what's the shape if there's no mass except in the core? Something lens-like, probably.

With principia, it is in principle (hah) possible to get the correct equilibrium state, since I can use j2 = oblatness to make the gravity field oblate, and use the maclaurin formula to get the correct dimensions for the rotation rate. This will not be realistic but it will at least be internally consistent and I gotta say the latter is more appealing since making it realistic would really require a few years of dedicated education and quite a bit of original research that I don't have, not yet at least. 

[Whirligig Girl]

New Jifgif.

 

[Norcalplanner]

@GregroxMun This planet pack looks great with some unique challenges. Would you say that Mesbin and nearby bodies are fairly close to their final parameters and locations at this point?  Just looking to start a new career where upgrading to whatever new hotness you come up with is an option as you continue to refine your creation.

[Whirligig Girl]

21 minutes ago, Norcalplanner said:

@GregroxMun This planet pack looks great with some unique challenges. Would you say that Mesbin and nearby bodies are fairly close to their final parameters and locations at this point?

I would say that, yes.

[Adstri]

@SQUAD Please feature this on StarMods!

Edited November 2, 2018 by Adstriduum

[Norcalplanner]

After having played with this for a few hours today, the best word I can use so far is "disorienting".  Low orbital operations around Mesbin and Statmun (which is all I've done so far) remind me of being in orbit around Lili and Tellumo, where you can't trust any visual references to orient yourself.  The delta between surface mode and orbital mode on the nav ball is significant and fraught with peril for the unwary. 

Not sure I'm going to do a long-term career with it in its current state, since it's not the most compatible with my preferred mod list, but definitely an interesting change of pace.

[Whirligig Girl]

Coming Soon to a High Orbit Near You.

Edited November 4, 2018 by GregroxMun

[Whirligig Girl]

Oh.

Oh no.

Oh no no no no.

(Ignore the exponent difference, that's because of the rescale factor)

 

I calculated every atmosphere orbiting Kaywell, as well as Mandrake and Rutherford's, with an incorrect Homeworld semi-major-axis. OhioBob's calculator doesn't actually require you use au, you just need the same units for both the homeworld and the target planet. So I was using that number for the habitable zone (specifically the distance at which you'd get the same insolation as Earth gets) and thus everything acts as if it is 1.6 times too close.

I have to recalculate the atmosphere curves for every planet.

@Ultimate Steve This is why Kerbmun is too hot. I won't be moving Mesbin and the other planets after all, but I will have to recalculate all of the atmospheres. Not just the temperature curves, but the pressure curves too, since they are interdependent. Technically this is not a difficult thing to do, but it is tedious enough, and I am lazy enough, that this is gonna be a pretty big setback.

I was going to say that 0.7.0 would probably be out tomorrow. I'd probably say now mid-to-late Thursday at the earliest.

This does mean that one of the new features I have implemented has more time to get more finished than I had initially planned for this update, so it's not all bad.

[Whirligig Girl]

I have finished the atmospheres and will likely be releasing later today. 

[Ultimate Steve]

On 11/1/2018 at 1:50 PM, GregroxMun said:

 

New Jifgif.

 

Question - what did old Jifgif look like?

13 minutes ago, GregroxMun said:

I have finished the atmospheres and will likely be releasing later today. 

 Looking forward to it!

[Whirligig Girl]

Just now, Ultimate Steve said:

Question - what did old Jifgif look like?

 Looking forward to it!

You just visited the old Jifgif.

[Ultimate Steve]

19 minutes ago, GregroxMun said:

You just visited the old Jifgif.

Okay, thanks! I was only there for about 10 seconds so I was unsure if that was the new one or the old one...

[Whirligig Girl]

https://spacedock.info/mod/1805/Whirligig World

0.7.0

 

* Re-redone atmospheres, which were all too hot because I had set Kaywell's "1 au" distance too high. Kerbmun should no longer be uninhabitable.

* Add Thresomin, a minor Mesbin moon halfway between Kerbmun and Low Mesbin Orbit in terms of Delta-v, chocked full of ore.

* Add Troymin, a minor Mesbin moon in the Kerbmun Trojan point. Also ore-rich. They also have biomes, science definitions, and mod support.

* Tweaked the asteroid generator configs to generate new structures in Mesbin's "rings" and the asteroid belts around Kaywell.

* Revamped Derbin's terrain and clouds.

* Revamped Derbin's biome map.

* Revamped Jifgif, Fophie, Plaph, and Didd. They're now detailed enough to actually warrant giving them a visit!

* Added biome maps for all remaining bodies except Wolda (oops). They are still very basic, but they are at least there.

* Tweaked a few science definitions. Tyepolbynar had an incomplete definition which was fixed. Atmospheric Analysis now only shows you full composition information when flying low. You get only a basic scan when flying high.

* More detailed Kerbmun biome map.

* Remake Yawer, since the color map did not agree with the craters. It's not a perfect recreation in terms of accuracy, but it is just as good.

* Added a VacuumEngines patch in WhirligigWorld/Parts, which adds stock engine clones with their stats changed to have larger engine bells. The actual models are not updated yet, so I've disabled it. To enable this patch you will have to change the filetype from .txt to .cfg. You may be surprised how much of a difference a few percent extra thrust and specific impulse makes.

* Added a few new flags.

 

Edited November 16, 2018 by GregroxMun

[BlkBltChemie]

Decided to give this a whirl (sorry terrible pun given the context...couldn't resist) after reading through @Ultimate Steve's mission report.  Having a blast so far in career mode - definitely requires taking a new perspective on things and adjusting some old habits!

I did want to mention (as I did not see this in the known issues or mentioned in the previous pages), but the "Launch First Vessel" and "Escape the Atmosphere" contracts did not complete for me when I started career mode.  "Gathering Science" and "Orbit" did work as expected.  This is in KSP 1.5.1 (without Making History) on Linux with the following:

• Kopernicus 1.5.1-1
• Kopernicus Expansion (as bundled with WW 0.7.0)
• Modular Flight Integrator (as bundled with Kopernicus 1.5.1-1)
• WW 0.7.0

Keep up the great work and looking forward to what comes next!

[Whirligig Girl]

6 minutes ago, BlkBltChemie said:

Decided to give this a whirl (sorry terrible pun given the context...couldn't resist) after reading through @Ultimate Steve's mission report.  Having a blast so far in career mode - definitely requires taking a new perspective on things and adjusting some old habits!

I did want to mention (as I did not see this in the known issues or mentioned in the previous pages), but the "Launch First Vessel" and "Escape the Atmosphere" contracts did not complete for me when I started career mode.  "Gathering Science" and "Orbit" did work as expected.  This is in KSP 1.5.1 (without Making History) on Linux with the following:

• Kopernicus 1.5.1-1
• Kopernicus Expansion (as bundled with WW 0.7.0)
• Modular Flight Integrator (as bundled with Kopernicus 1.5.1-1)
• WW 0.7.0

Keep up the great work and looking forward to what comes next!

Gathering Science and Orbit contracts need Kerbal crew members to work. If you were using the probe core, that might be why.

[BlkBltChemie]

That could be it, thanks.  Although now that I think about it, I did have Jeb sitting in the lander can on top of the Kaputnik for my first launch.  Anyway, I forgot to include the logs last time (it's been a long week, sorry) so here they are in case you want to look...https://www.dropbox.com/sh/u60zfm1khni5ggb/AACCBnlo2vii9SgpUerGx9uOa?dl=0. The 'Orbit' contract actually does work, but 'Escape the Atmosphere' did not - screenshots included in the Dropbox link.  I did a quick test and 'Gathering Science' was also successful without a crew but I had to manually complete 'Launch First Vessel' from the F-12 menu.

I should also have added the following to the mod list:  Module Manager 3.1.0 and a couple custom patches (full science reward, full science transmission, and fixed antenna at start).  Again, sorry for missing those.

One piece of balance feedback - I personally don't think you need to change anything because of this, but just in case it comes up from someone else.  I typically play with the setting "Signal required for control" active so the Kaputnik cannot actually be launched/staged (without including the lander can).  I restarted to regenerate the log and added my MM patch to move fixed antenna to the start node as a work around for myself so I could leave off the can.

[BlkBltChemie]

I did a little bit of testing based on your suggestion about needing a crewed vessel and no luck.  Updated the dropbox link from my previous post with new images, logs, and a savefile - see the "Troubleshooting" subfolder.  Reproduction details in spoiler below.

Spoiler

• Test 1 - Lander can (Jeb), fixed antenna, flea booster
  • Mission control - accept "Gather Science" and "Launch First Vessel"
  • Crew report on launchpad, transmitted, "Gather Science" completes
  • Stage (activates flea), "Launch First Vessel" does NOT complete
  • Use F-12 to override contract
• Test 2 - Lander can (Valentina), fixed antenna, large LFO with LV-T30, two radial Hammers on decouplers
  • Mission control - accept "Escape the Atmosphere" and "Orbit"
  • Stage (activates hammers), fly up, stage (decouple), stage (activate LV-T30), fly into orbit > 1000 km
  • "Orbit" completes, "Escape Atmosphere" (requires > 984.827 km) does NOT
  • Use F-12 to override contract
• Check mission control - potentially game breaking
  • "Launch 1st Vessel" and "Escape Atmosphere" have reappeared with 1 "Science from space"
  • Jump to Test 2, collect science and return to mission control
  • Warp 33 days (Kerbin time, not Mesbin, I don't have Kronometer installed) -> no new contracts, only "Launch 1st Vessel" and "Escape Atmosphere"

(By the way, I am having a lot of fun playing through this planet pack.  I completely understand it is a work-in-progress and am not looking for support or demanding bugfixes.  Just wanted to provide some feedback based on my experience.  Hopefully it helps, but if I am ever not helpful or you would like me to stop posting reports for whatever reason, please just let me know, I won't be offended!)

Update 1:  All my testing so far has been on Linux so I switched over to my Windows installation (same KSP and mod setup) and was able to successfully reproduce this issue.  I also checked the stock Kerbin system to see if it was a general problem in KSP 1.5.1 but everything completed normally there.

Update 2:  A second thought was that maybe (somehow) the contracts were linked to using the Mk1 Pod so I moved it back to the Start node in the Whirligig tech tree, but the "Launch 1st Vessel" contract still did not complete (didn't check "Escape the Atmosphere) so no luck there.

Update 3:  Had a couple more ideas to try. 

• First, started a new save and ignored the "Launch 1st Vessel" and "Escape the Atmosphere" to see if just those two contracts were the problem, but same results.
• Second, went ahead and flew-by Statmun to see if that would give new contracts.  Received "Science from Space at Statmun" and "Science from Surface" but after completing those, nothing new.
• Last, I landed and recovered the craft from orbit.  Time warped ahead, but same results again.

Anyway, out of ideas to try for tonight.  If there is anything you might like me test, I would be happy to help!  I think for the time being I'll switch over to Science mode and just enjoy exploring the new system and all of its challenges!

(Side note:  Just "warped to next morning" for the first time and thought to myself, "Wow that went really fast."  Then I remembered, "Oh, yeah, only a 28 minute rotational period!"  It is the little things like that which are making this planet pack such a blast to play through!)

Edited November 18, 2018 by BlkBltChemie

[BlkBltChemie]

Aha, I think I may have something.  I started working backwards through the Whirligig World releases launching a basic ship to test the "Launch 1st Vessel" contract.  All in KSP 1.5.1 with Kopernicus 1.5.1-1 and the other dependencies mentioned above.

• WW 0.7.0 -> no contract completion
• WW 0.6.0 -> no contract completion
• WW 0.5.0 -> completion!  Further testing and "Escape the Atmosphere" completed as well.  Images added to Dropbox link in subfolder "050 Test Images"

It looks like @Ultimate Stevestarted the "Conquering Whirligig" series in 0.4.0 when I went back to check so that may explain why this did not come up earlier.  It appears that something between 0.5.0 and 0.6.0 changed and caused this behavior with the early contracts, but the only things that really stood out to me in the 0.6.0 changelog were:

Quote

• Mesbin Space Center has been moved and its terrain recolored.
• Mesbin's north pole has a deep basin with a thin atmosphere at the bottom. 1 atmosphere of hydrogen.

Anyway, I hope this helps.  I think at this point I am out of my depth - I'm pretty decent at testing, but I will leave identifying and solving the problem to the pros!

(Another random observation:  I noticed in 0.7.0 that the velocity on the Navball does NOT automatically switch from "Surface" to "Orbital."  Maybe there is some sort of connection here because it DID automatically switch in 0.5.0.)

Edited November 19, 2018 by BlkBltChemie

[Whirligig Girl]

12 hours ago, BlkBltChemie said:

Aha, I think I may have something.  I started working backwards through the Whirligig World releases launching a basic ship to test the "Launch 1st Vessel" contract.  All in KSP 1.5.1 with Kopernicus 1.5.1-1 and the other dependencies mentioned above.

• WW 0.7.0 -> no contract completion
• WW 0.6.0 -> no contract completion
• WW 0.5.0 -> completion!  Further testing and "Escape the Atmosphere" completed as well.  Images added to Dropbox link in subfolder "050 Test Images"

It looks like @Ultimate Stevestarted the "Conquering Whirligig" series in 0.4.0 when I went back to check so that may explain why this did not come up earlier.  It appears that something between 0.5.0 and 0.6.0 changed and caused this behavior with the early contracts, but the only things that really stood out to me in the 0.6.0 changelog were:

Anyway, I hope this helps.  I think at this point I am out of my depth - I'm pretty decent at testing, but I will leave identifying and solving the problem to the pros!

(Another random observation:  I noticed in 0.7.0 that the velocity on the Navball does NOT automatically switch from "Surface" to "Orbital."  Maybe there is some sort of connection here because it DID automatically switch in 0.5.0.)

Thanks for the testing data. And that random observation may very well be the key to the puzzle. Or perhaps not.

Edited November 19, 2018 by GregroxMun

[BlkBltChemie]

3 hours ago, GregroxMun said:

Thanks for the testing data. And that random observation may very well be the key to the puzzle. Or perhaps not.

Absolutely!  It was quite fun and a nice change of pace trying to solve the puzzle.  Good luck tracking it down the rest of the way!

[Whirligig Girl]

Working on a few new minor bodies for WW 0.8. If anyone has any feature requests not on the to-do list, now's the time to voice them.

[Ultimate Steve]

1 hour ago, GregroxMun said:

Working on a few new minor bodies for WW 0.8. If anyone has any feature requests not on the to-do list, now's the time to voice them.

Well, make Diddmun an on-rails body. Then, make a subsubsubmoon called Diddmunmun, maybe 5 meters in diameter with a 15 meter SOI. Then give it a subsubsubsubmoon called Diddmunmunmun, 1 meter in diameter with a 2 meter SOI. Then add a contract to put a satellite in orbit of Diddmunmunmun so I can put a small probe called Diddmunmunmunmun in orbit of Diddmunmunmun. And then I'll stick a kerbal in a command chair of this probe and name him Diddmunmunmunmunmun Kerman and spin the craft so Diddmunmunmunmunmun is orbiting Diddmunmunmunmun is orbiting Diddmunmunmun is orbiting Diddmunmun is orbiting Diddmun is orbiting Didd is orbiting Manonam is orbiting Valyr is orbiting Kaywell. 8 layers of satellites!

Joking aside... I rather liked the idea of Fasteroid, making a body you could only attempt to travel to once in a save. I've never seen anyone make an object on an escape trajectory from the sun.

A moon of Shol would be interesting, maybe with very little solid land, to give a reason to go there.

[Whirligig Girl]

8 hours ago, Ultimate Steve said:

Well, make Diddmun an on-rails body. Then, make a subsubsubmoon called Diddmunmun, maybe 5 meters in diameter with a 15 meter SOI. Then give it a subsubsubsubmoon called Diddmunmunmun, 1 meter in diameter with a 2 meter SOI. Then add a contract to put a satellite in orbit of Diddmunmunmun so I can put a small probe called Diddmunmunmunmun in orbit of Diddmunmunmun. And then I'll stick a kerbal in a command chair of this probe and name him Diddmunmunmunmunmun Kerman and spin the craft so Diddmunmunmunmunmun is orbiting Diddmunmunmunmun is orbiting Diddmunmunmun is orbiting Diddmunmun is orbiting Diddmun is orbiting Didd is orbiting Manonam is orbiting Valyr is orbiting Kaywell. 8 layers of satellites!

Joking aside... I rather liked the idea of Fasteroid, making a body you could only attempt to travel to once in a save. I've never seen anyone make an object on an escape trajectory from the sun.

A moon of Shol would be interesting, maybe with very little solid land, to give a reason to go there.

Thanks for your suggestions.

• Alas, Diddmun can not be on-rails, since you can only have one PQS active at a time, and the scaledspace mesh would be so small and close that it'd be inside the camera (sometimes small bodies do have this unfortunate clipping effect, Statmun gets it sometimes for example). However, consider a gas giant orbiting far out from one member of a binary star system. It has a distant binary companion of its own, and around that there is an earth-like moon, with a moon-like subsatellite orbiting that. Around that subsatellite is of course yet another small satellite, just barely big enough and distant enough that a little boulder circles around it... that might be doable for some future planet pack. 
• Fasteroid shall never return, and yet I think this suggestion will be fulfilled nonetheless.  
• Shol does not have any stable orbits for satellites, although trojan companions are not out of the question.

[Adstri]

Perhaps and intermediate sized object orbiting in Shol's L4 point?

Possibly the size of Mercury (/10 of course.)

Or perhaps you can reuse the old Lito as some boring ice moon/dwarf planet.