Why are people against mods?

[Mr. Peabody]

I use only a very few mods and then only those that do not alter gameplay significantly. The reason some people rightfully consider modded craft less impressive is because they are generally less impressive than stock craft. There are a lot of mods out there that can almost be considered a game "cheat" because the parts they add are so OP.

[eddiew]

Because some people believe that games should still run on their 8 year old potato PC. KSP without mods actually does, but with mods it does not. They therefore blame the modding community for making the game unstable in order to assure themselves that they don't need to change anything and the rest of the world is wrong.

Also because some people pick out the most imbalanced mods possible and assume all mods make the game easier, rather than broader, and thus need to criticise them as if they're cheats.

Personally I love the modding community. My opinion, KSP would have fizzled a long time ago without mods to keep it fresh - and the devs apparently agree, since they have a track record of recruiting the creators of the most popular mods in order to make them stock!

[RX2000]

IMO, its good to start out KSP unmodded, to learn all the basics of how the game works. I played my first 60 hrs probably with 0 mods. Not even KER or KAC or anything.

After you've played the game for a while tho & understand everything, I dont see how you can keep playing it WITHOUT mods lol.

[Julien Kerman]

I would not be able to live without my Realism Overhaul.

[KerBlammo]

1 hour ago, RX2000 said:

IMO, its good to start out KSP unmodded, to learn all the basics of how the game works.

Agreed.  I just recently came back to KSP after a lengthy hiatus and before I installed any mods I did several stock direct ascent Mun landings just to get back up to speed with the game & I do think it would benefit a new player to stick to the stock game until they get proficient and then decide what (if any) mods would suit them.

As far as mods go, I just don't understand why sometimes people have problems with other's game play styles. If there is a spectrum from un-modded career no-reverts at one end and anything goes mods, build a cool looking space ship and hyper edit into space with a spectacular nebula sky box and get 70s SciFi book cover screen caps at the other what does it matter where on that spectrum another player is?

Personally I like to play sand box with lots of mod parts.  I set my own rules and missions.  I like to launch and land with no aids at all.  I like to dock  manually although I have the MechJeb auto pilot standing by in case I screw things up too badly.  I use the rendezvous autopilot because I suck at figuring out how to get a close approach (at some point I will have another go at learning how to do that myself, but right now I'm building a space station).  Some people no doubt pride themselves on doing a rendezvous manually and others like to automate their launches.  Good for you!  It shouldn't bother anyone that others enjoy this game in different ways.

[RX2000]

2 hours ago, KerBlammo said:

I like to dock  manually although I have the MechJeb auto pilot standing by in case I screw things up too badly.  I use the rendezvous autopilot because I suck at figuring out how to get a close approach (at some point I will have another go at learning how to do that myself, but right now I'm building a space station).

Every time I've tried to get MechJeb to do a rendevous, its had to use waaaaaaaaaay more dV to do it than what I could do it in. Doesnt seem very efficient at all to me. Same with its ascent guidance..... I can launch way more efficiently than MechJeb can. It is pretty decent at docking tho, once you are super close to the target. But I'm like you with that also; docking is too much fun to let MechJeb do it. I pretty much only use MechJeb to execute my maneuvers I have planned.

Edited November 13, 2017 by RX2000

[Tyko]

On 11/11/2017 at 8:24 PM, invision said:

if this game didnt have mods i would have stopped playing a long time  ago

Agreed. I tried the game for a while and was ready to walk away from it until I learned about KER - this one mod turned the game around for me. After that I added a bunch more, but that or MJ readouts are a must-have for me.

[OhioBob]

3 hours ago, RX2000 said:

Every time I've tried to get MechJeb to do a rendevous, its had to use waaaaaaaaaay more dV to do it than what I could do it in. Doesnt seem very efficient at all to me. Same with its ascent guidance..... I can launch way more efficiently than MechJeb can. It is pretty decent at docking tho, once you are super close to the target. But I'm like you with that also; docking is too much fun to let MechJeb do it. I pretty much only use MechJeb to execute my maneuvers I have planned.

I haven't tried MechJeb yet.  I use KER because I want all the data it provides, but I still like flying my own ships for the most part, so I've stayed away from MechJeb.  The only flight task that I've started to get tired of (after performing hundreds of them) are launches.  Especially since I design all my rockets to the same standards, they all fly about the same.  I've started using Gravity Turn.  It may not be the most efficient the first time, but you can tweak each successive launch and dial it in.

[Spricigo]

7 hours ago, RX2000 said:

IMO, its good to start out KSP unmodded, to learn all the basics of how the game works.

I disagree. Because:

1.Cosmetic mods. No need to learn anything to know if you want a better looking game.

2.Information mods. Switching to map mode and back to check some info get old fast, like the 2nd time you do it. Same with calculations by hand. Info need to be accessible.

3.Quality of life mods. Repeating menial task over and over don't result in good game experience. 

 

[Bill Phil]

I haven't done that much with mods because I wouldn't play the game much anyways. I barely play anymore, and I know that the mods I'm interested would make me lose interest real quick.

[Cpt Kerbalkrunch]

1 hour ago, Bill Phil said:

I haven't done that much with mods because I wouldn't play the game much anyways. I barely play anymore, and I know that the mods I'm interested would make me lose interest real quick.

[invision]

4 hours ago, Spricigo said:

I disagree. Because:

 

3.Quality of life mods. Repeating menial task over and over don't result in good game experience. 

 

you sir better not EVER play an MMO because THATS ALL YOU DO EVERYDAY just to get that epic piece of armor the rest of the server wants. you feel like a god, until everyone else has it [snip]  god  dammit........... /kicks dirt

[DualDesertEagle]

19 hours ago, The Dunatian said:

I use only a very few mods and then only those that do not alter gameplay significantly. The reason some people rightfully consider modded craft less impressive is because they are generally less impressive than stock craft. There are a lot of mods out there that can almost be considered a game "cheat" because the parts they add are so OP.

That's still no reason to leave hate comments as described in the original Post.

[Spricigo]

8 hours ago, invision said:

you sir better not EVER play an MMO because 

Been there, did that. 5 years, and 4 account, at EVE Online.  Then I got a life.

Time well spent, mostly doing PVP (funded ship PvP with market PvP)

Of course I also did a lot of menial stuff in EVE and other game. That is how one get experience, from our dumb mistakes.

[Inverurie Jones]

I love mods, mainly because without them all my stations and bases would just be identical stacks of hitchhikers and MPLs. And the vanilla hiring cost system is horrible.

[Tyko]

15 hours ago, OhioBob said:

I haven't tried MechJeb yet.  I use KER because I want all the data it provides, but I still like flying my own ships for the most part, so I've stayed away from MechJeb.  The only flight task that I've started to get tired of (after performing hundreds of them) are launches.  Especially since I design all my rockets to the same standards, they all fly about the same.  I've started using Gravity Turn.  It may not be the most efficient the first time, but you can tweak each successive launch and dial it in.

I just tried Gravity Turn for the first time last night. I thought I was performing fairly efficient manual launches - usually around 3250-3300m/s to launch from Gael. With Gravity Turn it's only taking 3100     

[wumpus]

3 hours ago, DualDesertEagle said:

That's still no reason to leave hate comments as described in the original Post.

The original Post did include a case slightly different than what we've been talking about.  There are two issues with using mods.

1. Enjoying a game differently than somebody else does.  This will inevitably bring internet hate for "being wrong on the internet" and is what ".ignore" files were created.
2. Shared files to be used by others (this was OP's case).  Here you should use mods as sparingly as possible.  Because anyone who wants to use that file needs to install all the mods used by that file, regardless of how maintained they are or will be in the future, and how compatible with whatever mods a user might be using.  This still doesn't justify the hate OP saw.
3. Challenges.  I'm surprised that some of the more interesting challenges seem to have entries with arbitrary mods involved, but that shows how mod-centric KSP can be.  I'd expect challenges to be either pure stock (for an even challenge) or possibly mod-specific ("baseline RO" would be an obvious one, but I'm not sure there is a "baseline RO").
4. Shear spite thanks to buying the "wrong" (console) version and blaming everyone else for enjoying the game.  A subset of #1, but I thought I'd throw it out (this mostly comes up in other well-modded games.  Nothing like seeing Oblivion on a console and feeling sad for somebody stuck with the stock game (while KSP+mods is wildly superior to stock KSP, stock KSP is still great. Oblivion is practically broken in stock state and mods help save the amazing game underneath).
 

23 hours ago, eddiew said:

Because some people believe that games should still run on their 8 year old potato PC. KSP without mods actually does, but with mods it does not. They therefore blame the modding community for making the game unstable in order to assure themselves that they don't need to change anything and the rest of the world is wrong.

I'd assume that procedural parts are a requirement for reducing partcount on a potato PC, but haven't tried it yet (I'm using an AMD Bulldozer-based system that has one of the most miserable single thread performance in recent memory.  I'm not sure how much 1.2 helped, but I'll take anything I can get to ease the pain of the main thread).  You can also include plenty of mods on a 4GB machine (you can add just as many mods as you could back when  only 32 bit mode was available), but I'm less certain what happens with a 2GB (or less) machine.

[Urses]

11 hours ago, invision said:

god  dammit........... /kicks dirt

Best if you have a chance for a specific drop once a week, you need the item 4x and 24 players rolls on it with you....?

@howyoulearnnottoswearinaTSchannel

[janq0]

I will not answer your question because i like mods and for me it makes the game more interousting.

[regex]

1 hour ago, wumpus said:

3. Challenges.  I'm surprised that some of the more interesting challenges seem to have entries with arbitrary mods involved, but that shows how mod-centric KSP can be.  I'd expect challenges to be either pure stock (for an even challenge) or possibly mod-specific

Most of them used to be, when I cared at least. Stock or mod-centric challenges make sense in that everyone is playing on the same level and generally involve competition with a leaderboard. Challenges that allow a wide variety of mods (Jool 5, for instance) are more personal challenges that invite you to share your experience rather than outright competition.

I would say that's the dividing line between those who care about a stock experience and those who don't; whether you consider yourself in competition with other players in one way or another.

1 hour ago, wumpus said:

"baseline RO" would be an obvious one, but I'm not sure there is a "baseline RO"

The absolute baseline is what is shown in the "Dependencies" here 

 

although I personally would go with Dependencies and all the Recommendations to form the "baseline" experience from which to run a challenge. Parts in RO are just parts, real life has precisely zero "game balance" and you'd want to tailor the challenge around that fact.

[Spricigo]

2 hours ago, Urses said:

Best if you have a chance for a specific drop once a week, you need the item 4x and 24 players rolls on it with you....?

@howyoulearnnottoswearinaTSchannel

Please...That is nothing but an annoyance. Imagine that you finally get that epic gear, and is everything you dreamed about, then its lost . (and, while you don't want to admit, you are the only one to blame)

 

[eddiew]

4 hours ago, wumpus said:

I'd assume that procedural parts are a requirement for reducing partcount on a potato PC, but haven't tried it yet (I'm using an AMD Bulldozer-based system that has one of the most miserable single thread performance in recent memory.  I'm not sure how much 1.2 helped, but I'll take anything I can get to ease the pain of the main thread).  You can also include plenty of mods on a 4GB machine (you can add just as many mods as you could back when  only 32 bit mode was available), but I'm less certain what happens with a 2GB (or less) machine.

Yer, I do remember the 32 bit days... and it was hard as hell to stay under that 4gb limit. Never got to have even half of what I wanted, always choosing between visuals and parts. Soon as 64 bit stabilised, I was breaking 6gb just getting to the menu  

[John FX]

On 13/11/2017 at 4:33 PM, Julien Kerman said:

I would not be able to live without my Realism Overhaul.

I am not so drastic, I would not be able to really enjoy the game, but I would live.

When I load KSP, Module Manager implements over 46,000 patches...

[themonk]

On 11/13/2017 at 10:05 AM, eddiew said:

Because some people believe that games should still run on their 8 year old potato PC. KSP without mods actually does, but with mods it does not.

Where can I get one of these "Potato PC's"   Sounds Tasty!...

[eddiew]

9 minutes ago, themonk said:

Where can I get one of these "Potato PC's"   Sounds Tasty!...

Nah, they're just a stack of stale old chips...