Extended Stays on Venus could be possible with Tougher Transistors

[kerbiloid]

5 minutes ago, PB666 said:

Because a colony on Mercury makes more sense than Venus.

Not that "Mercury makes more sense", but "Venus makes even less sense", I believe.
A "useless burnt mordor under gas" vs a "useless burnt mordor in vacuum" (also requiring a lot of delta-V to deliver everything, including CO2). The first mordor at least has CO2 in situ.

13 minutes ago, PB666 said:

We know how to get to Mercury and land, its just a big version and big dV of the moon. We have no idea how to land on Venus and to do so would be insane.

We know how to get to Venus and land, several landers have already done it (rather than on Mercury, btw).
It's just a very hot version of 1 km deep diving for an oceanic submersible, 10 times less than in Mariana Trench. (Though, twice less hot than a typical heatshield or rocket nozzle withstands).

18 minutes ago, PB666 said:

Ground temperature is influenced by transpiration and evaporation and is keep moderate by grasses and trees.

I haven't read about lunar grasses and trees, but I had meant that, as far as I read, the Moon ground is relatively cold close to the surface.

[magnemoe]

3 hours ago, PB666 said:

Because a colony on Mercury makes more sense than Venus. For one the average surface temperature of Mercury is 100'C lower than that of Venus. 

Surface temperature in some regions much lower.
Surface pressure better
No Sulfur dioxides and trioxides in the atmosphere.
Water on surface of permanently colder areas of Mercury.
All the power you want is just a solar panel, transformer and HV extension cord away.

We know how to get to Mercury and land, its just a big version and big dV of the moon. We have no idea how to land on Venus and to do so would be insane. We know how to land on Mars but there is no power source on Mars that allows us to do the things we need to do to survive.

Earth is not Venus. Ground temperature is influenced by transpiration and evaporation and is keep moderate by grasses and trees.

This and so much. Mercury, is an very nice place compared to Venus, blocking radiation is easy mirrors block sunlight, water and other inert stuff block radiation. 
You could use water without the mirror if you have radiators on the backside, add an steam engine for power
pressure difference between vacuum and earth atmosphere is less than pressure in an car tire and an leak don't adds poison gas to the habitat. 
As you say water, not much more issues than an Moon base and better gravity, you have to design the spacesuits a bit different 

At some point you would want Mercury as its an huge resource base an place there solar power is concentrated. This is nice then you want to do stuff who require lots of power like starships. Pushing 10K ton to .20c is power intensive. teraforming Venus will probably be too  

[YNM]

8 hours ago, Tullius said:

Better insulation might extend the stay on the surface from a few hours to a few days, but you are still severely limited in time.

We don't need more than that I guess. Get down, pack some dirt, launch off.

Edited November 26, 2017 by YNM

[PB666]

7 hours ago, magnemoe said:

This and so much. Mercury, is an very nice place compared to Venus, blocking radiation is easy mirrors block sunlight, water and other inert stuff block radiation. 
You could use water without the mirror if you have radiators on the backside, add an steam engine for power
pressure difference between vacuum and earth atmosphere is less than pressure in an car tire and an leak don't adds poison gas to the habitat. 
As you say water, not much more issues than an Moon base and better gravity, you have to design the spacesuits a bit different 

At some point you would want Mercury as its an huge resource base an place there solar power is concentrated. This is nice then you want to do stuff who require lots of power like starships. Pushing 10K ton to .20c is power intensive. teraforming Venus will probably be too  

Its a great place to launch extrasystem craft because you can launch empty cans on solar ION drive ships, then fill them up with Argon, the kick each time you pass the sun at PE continuing to do so for a year or so when you get an Apo about the orbit of jupiter the next pass you use all the rest of your fuel and press for high speed. You could even use shuttles to refuel the ships each pass if you use X:1 orbit that greet Mercury each time.

While I don't recommend the use of steam in space literally at termination you put a boiler and run a bunch or radiators on the back side and you have a steam turbine. 10 to 16.2 kW per meter. Thats enough to run three homes.

[DAL59]

Don't go to the surface- go to 50 km up.  Same pressure, temperature, and gravity as Earth.  

[kerbiloid]

13 hours ago, magnemoe said:

At some point you would want Mercury as its an huge resource base an place

Can I, please, read some detailed review about the Mercury mineral deposits (except the obvious ones: Al and Fe in the regolith)?
The lead can melt there, but this doesn't mean that there are lakes of molten lead.

13 hours ago, magnemoe said:

blocking radiation is easy mirrors block sunlight,

Under easy mirrors warmed up to 350°C, surrounded by 350°C ground.  A 88 days long day.
Something says to me that the area below the mirrors will warm up to 350°C, too.
Happily, another 88 days there is night, and the temperature falls down to comfortable -170°C.
(Btw does any known material withstand the oscillations -170°C..+350°C every 3 months, and also in vacuum?)

But of course, we can just live under ground, as at 1 m depth the temperature is more or less constant, comfortable +75°C.
Not sure, though, how should we cool that +75°C down to +40°C to stop our proteins getting boiled, if an on-ground radiator should be >350°C. (there is no atmosphere, radiating more than receiving from the Sun is the only way to cool).

13 hours ago, magnemoe said:

You could use water without the mirror

Make the Mercury wet _again? Interesting, but for a while.

13 hours ago, magnemoe said:

steam engine for power

Any heat engine requires a heater and a cooler. Steampunk machines use the atmosphere as a cooler. Not so much of this has Mercury.

5 hours ago, PB666 said:

you can launch empty cans on solar ION drive ships, then fill them up with Argon

Of course, these cryogenic cans will be being heated up to +300°C every turn, and so must be at least two-layered, but let's not be hesitated with this.
Also, there is a lot of argon there, and one doesn't need stadium-sized scoops to gather it for months. Of course, ~ -170°C..+350°C every turn.

5 hours ago, PB666 said:

the kick each time

With ion drives it looks much more like kiiiiiiickk eeevryyyy seeveraaaall yeeeeaaars.
And in any case you need much higher velocity to leave the orbit, so gain almost nothing.

5 hours ago, PB666 said:

You could even use shuttles to refuel the ships each pass

If you can quickly accelerate the shuttle to the same speed, why one can need those Argonion drives?

P.S.
Maybe moderator would separate the Venus-vs-Mercury discussion into Mercury thread?

Edited November 27, 2017 by kerbiloid