Playing the same save on plural/multiple machines

[Zeiss Ikon]

I'm in process of setting up to be able to play KSP from the same save game/install on both my laptop (where this 1.3.0 version install and save originated) and my desktop (previously hosting a 1.2.2 install, which will likely remain intact).

I'm doing this in part to be able to directly compare performance between the laptop (Core i7-3520M, dual core 2.9 GHz with 3.5 GHz max turbo, 8 GB RAM, Intel graphics) and the desktop (Core2Quad 2.7 GHz, 8 GB RAM, nVidia GTx750, soon to be upgraded to AMD FX8350, 8 cores, 4.0 GHz w/ overclock capability, 16 GB RAM, same graphics), both before and after the upgrade -- and in part just to be able to play the same save comfortably, at home, on my big monitor, but still be able to play it on my laptop when I'm out.

There are probably multiple ways to do this, but the one I've chosen is to use my Google Drive, already set up at the 200 GB size to accommodate automatic  backups for my laptop as the shared storage.

Windows users could use the Google Drive app, which automatically maintains a local copy of the cloud drive and synchronizes both ways, but Google Drive for Linux doesn't exist in a usable form.  I already have both machines set up with google-drive-ocamlfuse, which makes the remote storage look and act like a local folder, but doesn't synchronize the data, instead doing all loads and saves through the network, treating the cloud storage as a network drive (NAS or similar).  This, however, seems likely to be very slow starting up KSP -- the 2+ GB for my save (with Better Burn Time as the only mod) must be loaded into RAM on every program start, and doing this through a 150 Mb/s wifi connection (likely further throttled by Starbucks when I'm there) seems likely to significantly protract the "loading hints" stage of startup.

Fortunately, there are several choices available to allow a Linux system to maintain two-way sync between two folders, local or remote.  For my setup, guided by a handy answer on askubuntu.com, I've chosen Unity, a mature and maintained free utility that, after a simple setup, will continuously sync my local KSP_Linux folder with a matching folder on the Google Drive cloud, and thence to the other machine (I routinely leave both machines running 24/7 because they also run BOINC @Home distributed computing tasks).  Unity has an easy GUI setup and controls, automatically handles empty (newly created) folders at one end of the link (meaning I needn't manually propagate the save), and is available from the same repositories used by a default Ubuntu (or other Debian) distro, so may be assumed to  be safe and reasonably reliable.

I've chosen to mirror the entire install -- there's a remote possibility of this causing issues if I set screen resolution on one machine outside the capabilities of the display or graphics system on the other, but I normally play in a window at modest resolution, so don't anticipate this being a problem.  The up side is, if I choose to install a mod (say, RSS or RP-0, which I've considered) it will automatically be present on both machines.  If I create a sub-folder so as to have saves both with and without certain mods, they'll take up extra space on the Google Drive, but my backups are currently using only 4 GB of the 200 GB I'm paying for ($2/mo as of Jan. 2018), and a base install of KSP takes up between 2 and 3 GB, so I have room for a fair amount of this if I choose, and I can use different launchers on my desktop or menu to select the different installs.  This also ensures I have matching versions of KSP itself and any installed mods -- no downloading a mod on one machine to find it's incompatible with the one installed two days before on the other, because of an update.

Sure. over the course of a year or so, a thumb drive would be cheaper, and likely would sync faster (even a low-cost thumb drive has a higher data rate than 801-N wifi, though slower than my 1 Gb/s ethernet and comparable to the 300 Mb/s of my internet service), but this solution avoids the potential of a lost or corrupted thumb drive (and Ubuntu is notorious for marking thumb drives as read-only for no apparent reason, which costs time to correct even if it's as easy as logging out of Ubuntu and back in) -- and doesn't require me to remember to bring the thumb drive with me, even if it's not actually lost.

 

[Geonovast]

I would do the thumb drive.  I think it's safest and fastest overall.  You could also carry an actual external HDD instead of a thumb, which would be less likely to die (barring dropping it, of course.)

As far as corrupting the thumb, I wouldn't worry about it too much.  Carry a backup, and I don't think you'll risk losing the save.

• Start computer.
• Plug in thumb, sync save from thumb to computer.
• Play KSP, all saves going to the save on the computer.
• When done, sync save from computer to thumb.

I wouldn't mirror the entire install.  A lot of unnecessary data being overwritten by identical data.  Will just slow things down, and as you pointed out, possible cause issues.  I think managing the mods would be less of a hassle than dealing with all that.

Even if the thumb dies before you play on your other computer, there will still be an intact, current save on the last computer you played on. 

Plus you'll eliminate internet dependency, which is a big thing for me.

-just how I would handle it.  I'd thought about doing it at one point, but my laptop is so crappy that it barely handles vanilla.  It would die if I tried to run the install I have on my desktop.

[RizzoTheRat]

I use Dropbox to synchronise the entire game folder between my desktop and laptop. Works fine and means I'm syncing any mods I update or install as well as just the the save files. 

[Zeiss Ikon]

With my two computers having (at present) very similar performance, I needn't worry about wanting to have more mods or higher settings on one than the other (that may change when I get the desktop machine updated, but it's the case at present).  I'm not a big mod fan, anyway, though at some point I'd like to be able to play RSS/RP-0 with Scatterer/E.V.E./etc. eye candy, just to see it look like the real world and act like real rockets (I doubt I'll ever be able to afford a computer that can handle all of that, unless I keep a 2018 version and set of mod files for five years or so, and hope it still works with whatever version of Ubuntu I wind up with in 2023) -- playing old software on a current machine is the cheapest way to have the machine that can play with high settings).

Also, I'd have to automate the two sync steps for every play session, else I'd forget to sync one way or the other.  Using sync software would eliminate the overwriting in either case -- only files that have changed get copied -- but then I'd have to wait for the sync to finish after connecting the thumb drive, and again after closing KSP before disconnecting the thumb drive.  Since I seldom spend time with my laptop in any location where I don't have wifi available, internet dependency isn't a big deal for me -- and because of the auto-sync, I'll have a complete local copy on both machines anyway, so I can still play on either machine in a dead spot, when my cable/wifi is down, etc., with problems only occurring if I want to play on the other machine before internet service is regained.

@RizzoTheRat I had originally planned to use Dropbox, but my free Dropbox isn't big enough (2 GB, already stuff in it, and my install is closer to 3 GB than 2 GB in size); to get more space, I have to pay $10/mo (albeit for 1 TB, but that's many times what I need) vs. $2/mo for Google Drive to get plenty of space for my needs.

[RizzoTheRat]

Yeah, my install is about 2.75GB.  AFAIK Dropbox, Google Drive or One Drive should all operate in a similar manner, and it works fine so go with whatevers cheapest .  I don't really notice how long it takes to sync as it's doing it in the background as soon as I start the machine up. 

[Zeiss Ikon]

3 hours ago, RizzoTheRat said:

AFAIK Dropbox, Google Drive or One Drive should all operate in a similar manner, and it works fine so go with whatevers cheapest .  I don't really notice how long it takes to sync as it's doing it in the background as soon as I start the machine up. 

Dropbox does have a Linux native app that handles auto-sync.  Don't know One Drive, but this solution (Unison plus google-drive-ocamlfuse to make my Google Drive look like a local folder) should work.  Have to use an environment variable to give a stable host name, since the laptop gets used regularly on three different wifi connections (and very occasionally on a couple others) -- probably need one for the desktop machine, too, since it has a DHCP assigned IP address, so can change without warning.

[Alpha 360]

When my computer died a couple of weeks back, I got some computer service people to extract all the data from my previous computer. Including KSP. Right now, I have removed KSP from that harddrive and put in on my computer. It still works, and nothing goes wrong. 

[SiriusRocketry]

I copied a KSP folder with the sole intention of installing Kerbal Historical Institute, booting up and letting the nostalgia flow.

[RizzoTheRat]

With a few mods installed I'm starting to get uncomfortably close to the 7.5GB limit on my Dropbox.  It appears Google Drive gives you 15GB for free so I'm giving that a go.

 

[Zeiss Ikon]

Google Drive probably works fine if you're on Windows, maybe even on a Mac (for those OS, there's an app that makes it work like Dropbox with their app, doing background 2-way sync in real time).

For Linux, it appears, Google Drive is a problem, because there doesn't seem to be a way to set up bidirectional continuous auto-sync for an arbitrary folder, even though it's fairly easy to set up the Google Drive to look like a local folder.

@RizzoTheRat  You must have an older Dropbox, or something -- my free Dropbox account has a 2 GB limit.  Even a stock install won't quite fit (and I've got half a GB of other stuff already in there).

[RizzoTheRat]

Dunno if it's still the case, but when I joined Dropbox you got extra space for referrals, so I got my family and a few friends on it as well

[Zeiss Ikon]

On 2/1/2018 at 8:01 AM, RizzoTheRat said:

Dunno if it's still the case, but when I joined Dropbox you got extra space for referrals, so I got my family and a few friends on it as well

You do still get 500 MB of additional space for each referral who joins -- but I (literally) don't know anyone who uses a computer regularly who doesn't already have Dropbox.  And I'd need at least two more referrals just to have the minimum space to put my 1.3.0 save up there.

I may have solved the problem -- I found a cloud provider called hubiC (for hub-in-Cloud) who give 20 GB free.  The bad news is, their Linux client doesn't have a GUI (Mac, Windows, Android, and iOS versions do), but the good news is, it background syncs like Dropbox -- I just have to read the man page enough times to figure out how to get it to auto-start (easy), sync the correct folder (seems reasonably clear), and do it often enough not to cause confusion (also seems clear-ish) -- all from the command line, in a bash script that I can set to run on startup.  Down side is it's a French company, I see complaints on their international forum about getting notification emails in French (which I neither speak nor read, though I can eventually make some sense of the written form) -- and if I ever decide to pay for additional space, they take Euro, which will incur exchange fees on my debit card.

An alternative would be if I could find a software solution to sync folders between the two machines when the laptop is on my home wifi -- but it needs to be a background sync, because otherwise I'll forget it at the worst possible time and seriously screw something up (like, say, erase a successful Duna landing).  So far, AskUbuntu.com hasn't come up with any suggestions other than to spend $30 on software to do that.  I'm a little shocked that it doesn't seem to exist in free form.

[stibbons]

I used ownCloud for a long time, and am about to install nextCloud on my home server. They both do the same thing, act as an open source, self-hosted equivalent for dropbox and similar. Also have good free, open source clients for all the major desktop and mobile operating systems. Can confirm that the Linux client docks very nicely in the GNOME tool bar and automatically keeps required folders synced.

[RizzoTheRat]

 I'm old enough that I got to Dropbox before many people I knew were using it :-D

Do you have a NAS at home? If so a lot can can be configured for external/remote access and then just use a backup utility. Dunno about Linux but loads of windows backup software is able to link to a remote server, or script it yourself. 

Google Drive is being a bit annoying at the moment, despite me turning notifications off I'm still getting a pop up  from the windows app every time ksp autosaves and the Persistent file is overwritten. 

Edited February 3, 2018 by RizzoTheRat

[Zeiss Ikon]

@stibbonsI'll have to look at OwnCloud/NextCloud -- if it'll coexist with an in-use GUI, that may be the solution (especially after I get my desktop machine rebuilt, I'll have more RAM and more cores to spare the processing power).

@RizzoTheRat No, no NAS.  I do, however, have an old computer and will have reasonably functional (Core2Quad) hardware to install in it; hard disks are cheap(ish), so I might consider building that into a NAS.  Loading the game from a NAS directly wouldn't be prohibitive; 150 Mb/s wifi is faster than original CD-ROM, and ought to load a couple GB of game data in, what, not much over two minutes.  That still leaves an issue with remote access, though (even with sync, if the laptop isn't updated when I suspend it to leave home, I'd need to be able to load the game remotely), but OwnCloud/NextCloud may solve that problem.

BTW, I'm plenty old enough (got my first computer in 1986, first DOS machine in 1987), just didn't have a need for Dropbox until the last couple years.

I really think hubiC will do the job for me, though, once I get through the man page another couple times and get it configured.