Star Wars Episode VIII (8) the Last Jedi Discussion

[GoSlash27]

9 minutes ago, PakledHostage said:

Errmm? Where exactly was that in ANH where we first met Luke? Or in any other film for that matter (other than the "shooting wamprats" line)? If fan fiction backstories count in favor of Luke, then why be so critical of Rey in the absence of a plausible backstory first being written for her?

PackledHostage,

 That was all actually in the early drafts of the film before it got cut due to streamlining (a good thing). Not fan fiction. But in the original release, there are only a handful of references to his piloting skills. 1) Putting off going to the academy, 2) I used to bullseye womp rats in my t-16 back home 3) It'll be just like Beggar's Canyon back home.

 It wasn't expressly stated in the original release and was expounded on in the later Lucas re-releases, but Luke was actually an excellent pilot who had a knack for maneuvering low and fast and knew how to hit small targets.

Best,
-Slashy

3 minutes ago, razark said:

And does any of this really matter that much, since it's a space fantasy in which the characters are going to do no more, and no less, than the writer wants them to do, no matter what experience and power level they have?

razark,
 Yes, it matters if you want to make a good movie that keeps the audience engaged.

Best,
-Slashy

Edited December 31, 2017 by GoSlash27

[Cheif Operations Director]

3 minutes ago, GoSlash27 said:

PackledHostage,

 That was all actually in the early drafts of the film before it got cut due to streamlining (a good thing). Not fan fiction. But in the original release, there are only a handful of references to his piloting skills. 1) Putting off going to the academy, 2) I used to bullseye womp rats in my t-16 back home 3) It'll be just like Beggar's Canyon back home.

 It wasn't expressly stated in the original release and was expounded on in the later Lucas re-releases, but Luke was actually an excellent pilot who had a knack for maneuvering low and fast and knew how to hit small targets.

Best,
-Slashy

Yes it in the deleted scenes too

[GoSlash27]

Oh, another reference: In Mos Eisley when Han says "Well yeah, but who are you gonna get to fly it". Luke says "I will, I'm not a bad pilot myself".

[Cheif Operations Director]

2 minutes ago, GoSlash27 said:

Oh, another reference: In Mos Eisley when Han says "Well yeah, but who are you gonna get to fly it". Luke says "I will, I'm not a bad pilot myself".

Yep. 

Also 

what has Rey done to be a "hero" like Luke...

Make sarcastic Remarks like Alex Trebeck.

[GoSlash27]

13 minutes ago, razark said:

Other than that, do we ever see any evidence that she doesn't already have some flight experience?

Not a really pertinent question IMO. Maybe she got a Fulbright scholarship to "awesome school" at some point and nobody bothered to tell the audience, but *even if that's the case* it still makes for a crappy movie.

Best,
-Slashy

[Cheif Operations Director]

I hate Luke sky walker in the new movie he isn't worthy of being a charachter. I also mad Mark Hamill agreed to portray him. Like that.

Does anyone want a game that lets you command a fleet of capital ships.

Edited December 31, 2017 by Cheif Operations Director

[ProtoJeb21]

Just going to put this here, in case anyone’s interested...

https://www.polygon.com/2017/12/29/16830912/star-wars-last-jedi-prequels-jedi-order-evil

[tater]

LOL.

So I just watched the red letter media vids about Phantom Menace for the first time in a couple years.

All this talk about Rey being implausible for coming from nowhere. Her parents were scavengers. Would she be more plausible if they were slaves? Like Anakin's mother who found herself miraculously with child? Maybe that's where Rey came from. (who knows, or cares, but it's as plausible as anything else). Anakin (age 8?) flew a starfighter in that steaming pile of a movie with no training, right?

[Cheif Operations Director]

Just now, tater said:

LOL.

So I just watched the red letter media vids about Phantom Menace for the first time in a couple years.

All this talk about Rey being implausible for coming from nowhere. Her parents were scavengers. Would she be more plausible if they were slaves? Like Anakin's mother who found herself miraculously with child? Maybe that's where Rey came from. (who knows, or cares, but it's as plausible as anything else). Anakin (age 8?) flew a starfighter in that steaming pile of a movie with no training, right?

What part of he is the chosen one do you not get. He isn't a Average force user!

Rey Average from the perspective of the force.

[tater]

9 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

What part of he is the chosen one do you not get. He isn't a Average force user!

Rey Average from the perspective of the force.

Unless she has a lot of force, then the midclorians chose her. Since the BS Ep1 means that the force chooses people (I guess), then it chose her the same way it magically chose him.

You can't have it both ways. Anakin is strong for the following reason:

"because"

If anyone can be "chosen" then she can be chosen. A prophesy is just a story. If you don't grow up hearing it, it's like it doesn't exist. Perhaps she is a prophesy, but by people that the jedi don't know about. Did a remote tribe in the amazon ever have a prophesy that no one outside their tribe ever heard about?

Edited December 31, 2017 by tater

[PakledHostage]

20 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

What part of he is the chosen one do you not get. He isn't a Average force user!

Rey Average from the perspective of the force.

Wow, you really don't like Rey! Search your feelings. You will know it to be true!

[tater]

4 minutes ago, PakledHostage said:

Wow, you really don't like Rey! Search your feelings. You will know it to be true!

I don't like her as a character much at all, and I don;t like either of the new movies much. I just find the concern about her pedigree entirely bizarre, lol.

[Cheif Operations Director]

18 minutes ago, tater said:

Unless she has a lot of force, then the midclorians chose her. Since the BS Ep1 means that the force chooses people (I guess), then it chose her the same way it magically chose him.

You can't have it both ways. Anakin is strong for the following reason:

"because"

If anyone can be "chosen" then she can be chosen. A prophesy is just a story. If you don't grow up hearing it, it's like it doesn't exist. Perhaps she is a prophesy, but by people that the jedi don't know about. Did a remote tribe in the amazon ever have a prophesy that no one outside their tribe ever heard about?

Anakin wasn't chosen by the force he was made by the force. He is the Force. I really don't want to debate this until you can Spare a hour and watch the Mortis ark in the clone wars. 

 

7 minutes ago, PakledHostage said:

Wow, you really don't like Rey! Search your feelings. You will know it to be true!

I think Rey could have been a Preincess Leia like leader and a Obi-Wan Type Master. Would have made her dynamic. I mean why should we care about Rey. What has she done? Nothing she is being shoved down our throats by Disney. 

5 minutes ago, tater said:

I don't like her as a character much at all, and I don;t like either of the new movies much. I just find the concern about her pedigree entirely bizarre, lol.

I don't care about her ancestory. But I just want a reason for her power.

24 minutes ago, tater said:

Unless she has a lot of force, then the midclorians chose her. Since the BS Ep1 means that the force chooses people (I guess), then it chose her the same way it magically chose him.

You can't have it both ways. Anakin is strong for the following reason:

"because"

If anyone can be "chosen" then she can be chosen. A prophesy is just a story. If you don't grow up hearing it, it's like it doesn't exist. Perhaps she is a prophesy, but by people that the jedi don't know about. Did a remote tribe in the amazon ever have a prophesy that no one outside their tribe ever heard about?

I've even sent you the Wookiepedia Summaries! Just do you research please instead of screaming your thoughts like their fact

[razark]

11 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

But I just want a reason for her power.

Space magic.

If you're looking for anything further, you're putting too much thought into it.

[Cheif Operations Director]

1 minute ago, razark said:

Space magic.

If you're looking for anything further, you're putting too much thought into it.

Seriously this isn't some dumb sci if thing Star Wars is a Expansive universe it's supposes to be looked into. 

I, not going to just follow Disney I can be a critic I have that right!

[tater]

Just now, Cheif Operations Director said:

Anakin wasn't chosen by the force he was made by the force. He is the Force. I really don't want to debate this until you can Spare a hour and watch the Mortis ark in the clone wars. 

Which I will never, ever do, nor do I care about it. At all. The movies need to stand alone or they are utterly worthless, if it's not in a movie, it never happened, and anything not in a movie that is not explicitly denied is a possible explanation, or the writers/directors have failed.

 

Just now, Cheif Operations Director said:

I think Rey could have been a Preincess Leia like leader and a Obi-Wan Type Master. Would have made her dynamic. I mean why should we care about Rey. What has she done? Nothing she is being shoved down our throats by Disney. 

Leia is a fairly useless character past her utility as a plot device (archetype princess to rescue), then a love interest. 

I don't even care about Rey, what I think is funny is that anyone cares about the specifics at all. There are movies on a scale of 1 to 10, say. Give it a rating, and move on. I have nostalgia for real star wars, and I also liked Empire. I didn't like Jedi, and I had not reason to care about the franchise past that. Then Lucas with 100% control made what is the worst of them (because that's how he rolls), and now we have these new ones, which will be hit or miss. The plot stuff is the result of a muddled, lousy setting, much of which is the fault of Lucas.

 

Yes, it's a conspiracy by Disney. They are working hard to do as bad a job as Lucas did with 100% creative control. Someday they will certainly succeed in that, but it's a tough act to follow given how abjectly awful the 3 prequels were.

[Cheif Operations Director]

1 minute ago, tater said:

Which I will never, ever do, nor do I care about it. At all. The movies need to stand alone or they are utterly worthless, if it's not in a movie, it never happened, and anything not in a movie that is not explicitly denied is a possible explanation, or the writers/directors have failed.

 

Leia is a fairly useless character past her utility as a plot device (archetype princess to rescue), then a love interest. 

I don't even care about Rey, what I think is funny is that anyone cares about the specifics at all. There are movies on a scale of 1 to 10, say. Give it a rating, and move on. I have nostalgia for real star wars, and I also liked Empire. I didn't like Jedi, and I had not reason to care about the franchise past that. Then Lucas with 100% control made what is the worst of them (because that's how he rolls), and now we have these new ones, which will be hit or miss. The plot stuff is the result of a muddled, lousy setting, much of which is the fault of Lucas.

 

It was stated in the PREQUILS. I Don't understand that you refuse to want the most crucial movie to the Rise of Darth Vader and then tell me I'm wrong about him being the chosen one.

[tater]

17 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

It was stated in the PREQUILS. I Don't understand that you refuse to want the most crucial movie to the Rise of Darth Vader and then tell me I'm wrong about him being the chosen one.

A religious story about a chosen one. So what? Most religions have a chosen one, yet none are demonstrated. Making a likely wrong belief system around something stated as real/natural doesn't mean anything at all. There are no chosen ones. Did the force get balanced by Darth Vader, yes or no? If no, then the prophesy was clearly nonsense. He's dead, 1 of 2 kids are dead. The force isn't balanced.

I won't watch any past the one I paid for and almost walked out of because Ep1 was so terrible. It was at least as bad as Interstellar (I want those hours back, too). Everyone whose opinion I respect who saw the other prequels hated them just as much as I do, so I'm fine not seeing them.

If the movie works as a stand-alone, which they all should do, then it's fine. If some throw away line in ep II or III is that critical, it needs to be restated explicitly, or they should quit movies, and make it a series with many hours to work with. Which I wouldn't watch unless it was really good, anyway.

My own personal Machete order would be 4, 5, 6, then Rogue One. That's it. Fleshing out a poorly considered universe is uninteresting to me when other SF authors have made more interesting ones in need of doing as films/TV.

Edited December 31, 2017 by tater

[razark]

36 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

Seriously this isn't some dumb sci if thing...

Seriously, it is.  It's a cobbled together series by a bunch of writers, all with different ideas at different times, and the idea that leads it all is the idea of whichever one of them is in charge at the moment.  For that reason, it's never been, nor will it ever be, a cohesive whole where every single bit fits into some place in the universe.

You have the right to make up whatever you want about it.  It's fanfiction and headcanon.  Star Wars has quite a long history of it.  There was an entire expanded universe of fanfiction at one time.

[GoSlash27]

6 hours ago, tater said:

Anakin (age 8?) flew a starfighter in that steaming pile of a movie with no training, right?

tater,

 Yep. The important phrase being "steaming pile of a movie". Anakin was also a lousy hero character.

5 hours ago, tater said:

I don't like her as a character much at all, and I don;t like either of the new movies much. I just find the concern about her pedigree entirely bizarre, lol.

For me, the concern is that her back story was set up to be something bigger in Episode VII. She was bundled off to some backwater junkyard to be watched over by one of Luke's friends, and she patiently waited for her parents' return all those years.

 Either Kylo is blowing smoke up our collective asses or else this is a major continuity error. My bet is the former, and her true origin will be revealed in IX.

5 hours ago, tater said:

Yes, it's a conspiracy by Disney. They are working hard to do as bad a job as Lucas did with 100% creative control. Someday they will certainly succeed in that, but it's a tough act to follow given how abjectly awful the 3 prequels were.

Can't fault that logic

-Slashy

Edited December 31, 2017 by GoSlash27

[DDE]

13 hours ago, tater said:

I'd prefer a more obviously female Rey, myself, or were you talking about something else?

Actually, outside of her actions, Rey's starting-off point was half-decent. I mean, I still miss Bastilla Shan, but she's not a prerequisite.

11 hours ago, razark said:

Other than that, do we ever see any evidence that she doesn't already have some flight experience?

Other than being quite illogical for someone with flight experience to then be confined to a slave-like existence as a low-tech parts scavenger?

11 hours ago, razark said:

And does any of this really matter that much, since it's a space fantasy in which the characters are going to do no more, and no less, than the writer wants them to do, no matter what experience and power level they have?

Suspension of disbelief is not infinite. Do not abuse it.

11 hours ago, PakledHostage said:

If fan fiction backstories count in favor of Luke

You mean other than the justifications offered in the movie?

12 hours ago, tater said:

VII gives no sense of how the Empire gets trashed at the end of Jedi, yet somehow the rebellion looks the same. Some exposition on that would have been helpful because it's an obvious question literally everyone asked.

Bit of backstory here: the Resistance is Leia's private paramilitary after the massive downsize (90%) of the legal New Republic armed forces under Mon Mothma.

Where the First Order gets its goodies, I have no idea. And no, don't point me to the robber baron planet, the black market doesn't traffic in Starkiller Bases.

2 hours ago, GoSlash27 said:

Either Kylo is blowing smoke up our collective asses or else this is a major continuity error. My bet is the former, and her true origin will be revealed in IX.

I doubt it. TLJ takes joy in utterly tearing apart every franchise convention, such as SW being a family drama. It fits with their other actions for Rey to actually be a nobody.

Yes, in the process, they jettison every last bit of foreshadowing in TFA.

[MiffedStarfish]

My personal theory for hyperspace tracking is that they’re doing it through an implant in Finn. It makes sense as the resistance only started being tracked as Finn was aboard, while also clearing up a discrepancy in that tracking through hyperspace has been said to be impossible many times before, the only way of doing it was to attach a tracker to the ship. It also seems like implanting tech into the heads of their troops in childhood would be a very First Order thing to do. The very technology is stated in the film as a “cloaked binary beacon”, which would explain how the resistance didn’t find it while healing Finn.

[DDE]

29 minutes ago, MiffedStarfish said:

My personal theory for hyperspace tracking is that they’re doing it through an implant in Finn. It makes sense as the resistance only started being tracked as Finn was aboard, while also clearing up a discrepancy in that tracking through hyperspace has been said to be impossible many times before, the only way of doing it was to attach a tracker to the ship. It also seems like implanting tech into the heads of their troops in childhood would be a very First Order thing to do. The very technology is stated in the film as a “cloaked binary beacon”, which would explain how the resistance didn’t find it while healing Finn.

Contrived as all heck. There are easier options.

https://youtu.be/5IJF7UQhIx8?t=151

 

Plus that would throw half of TFA out the window.

[DAL59]

14 hours ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

Does anyone want a game that lets you command a fleet of capital ships.

Homeworld.  

[DarkOwl57]

Ah po(e). Snarky and cheeky as ever. Really loved the first half or so. Felt like a real Star Wars movie. Second half.. Left a real "Wtfish did I just watch?" Kind of taste in my mouth.