[WIP] Infernal Robotics - Next

[Sebas-chan]

On 4/17/2018 at 7:49 PM, Rudolf Meier said:

can you find a configuration with stock parts that crashes and send me the craft file?

Can't seem to create one. It will crash on sub-orbital trajectory

[Rudolf Meier]

7 hours ago, Sebas-chan said:

Can't seem to create one. It will crash on sub-orbital trajectory

That's fine... tell me what to do and I'll try it... I'm not one of those guys who are saying "case closed" just because it's not easily reproducible in the first 2 minutes. But it still is needed to find some sort of reproduction.

[Sebas-chan]

1 hour ago, Rudolf Meier said:

That's fine... tell me what to do and I'll try it... I'm not one of those guys who are saying "case closed" just because it's not easily reproducible in the first 2 minutes. But it still is needed to find some sort of reproduction.

Well, I would just make a two-stage rocket with a shuttle on top of it. On the first stage, there will be 8 SRBs. The first stage will be the 5m wide and second stage will be 3.75m wide

[Colonel Cbplayer]

Im gonna try my hand in this new version and see how it goes

[BouKer]

Hi,

Sorry for my english very bad.

I have problem whit version 1.4.2

IR works in 1.3.1, but in 1.4.2 i have this error whit my craft.

I have parts in folder.

What to do  ?

Thank you in advance.

Edited April 22, 2018 by BouKer

[Rudolf Meier]

17 minutes ago, BouKer said:

Hi,

Sorry for my english very bad.

I have problem whit version 1.4.2

IR works in 1.3.1, but in 1.4.2 i have this error whit my craft.

I have parts in folder.

What to do  ?

Thank you in advance.

Pas de problème ...ce ne sont pas les pièce "_v3" ... alors, je crois que tu as construit cet appareil avec la version 2 de IR.

These are not parts "_v3" ... so I think you have built this ship with version 2 of IR.

Edited April 22, 2018 by Rudolf Meier

[BouKer]

Thanks for answering

I make whit version 1.3.1.

can it work in 1.4.2 and version 2?

[Rudolf Meier]

6 hours ago, BouKer said:

Thanks for answering

I make whit version 1.3.1.

can it work in 1.4.2 and version 2?

yes, but that's not "my" mod... and... somehow I don't recommend it... I think the new version provides more ... but I have to say that

[BouKer]

Ho no !! My craft, 20 hours in the trash :'(

The old version don't work in 1.4.2 :'(

[kcs123]

You should be happy that it is only 20 hours Better don't even ask how many hours were spend already in development and testing of this.

And you will going to have 20 hours or even more of joy when you are going to recreate your craft. You will probably spend much less time in next attempt since you are mostly know how to recreate your craft by now. And after that you can enjoy even more in creating new crafts and improving your designs.

[BouKer]

It was not the only one :'( but agree with you next will be that better

Thank again.

[Rudolf Meier]

On ‎4‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 1:36 PM, Sebas-chan said:

Well, I would just make a two-stage rocket with a shuttle on top of it. On the first stage, there will be 8 SRBs. The first stage will be the 5m wide and second stage will be 3.75m wide

confirmed

There is a bug. What I know so far is that it is related to translational parts. That it is happening because of a decoupling and that we have heavy rotations because of that. Might be that this is also somehow related to the rotations I see when no IR parts are involved, but I cannot confirm this... I can also not imagine why this should be the case. But I'm investigating it.

Edit: the non-IR part rotation is related to trimming... but I've no idea if IR can affect trimming...

Edited April 24, 2018 by Rudolf Meier

[Rudolf Meier]

my reproduction is getting better and better... try to put an extendatron to a ship (not perpendicular, but with some angle), then a radial decoupler and a little tank to the side of the ship and then decouple this tank... then everything goes wrong  

[Rallyman03]

So I'm having an interesting bug. Admittedly I'm new to infernal robotics but I'm attempting to use the rotatortrons for a vtol craft. Everything works great in the VAB/SPH. But as soon as I launch the vehicle I get a weird texture glitch where parts I'm looking straight at go transparent or use the sky texture. All infernal robotic parts do not work either. If I attempt to use them, my viewpoint launches into the sky and my altimeter shows 000000m, I then need to revert flight because I can't do anything else. If I do not attempt to activate an infernal robotics part, then I can continue the flight as normal. Any ideas? Let me know what you need to help. 

 

PS. I removed infernal robotics from my game data and the problem is gone. So I'm pretty certain it involves this mod. 

Edited April 25, 2018 by Rallyman03

[Rudolf Meier]

5 hours ago, Rudolf Meier said:

my reproduction is getting better and better... try to put an extendatron to a ship (not perpendicular, but with some angle), then a radial decoupler and a little tank to the side of the ship and then decouple this tank... then everything goes wrong  

it seems, that the problem is related to extendatrons, but also to KJR (my version) ... I'm currently doing some experiments to find out which type of reinforcement it is

[Rudolf Meier]

4 hours ago, Rudolf Meier said:

it seems, that the problem is related to extendatrons, but also to KJR (my version) ... I'm currently doing some experiments to find out which type of reinforcement it is

it is related to KJR ... the problem is the v3.4.1 ... it does not happen with v3.4.1-p1... I have marked this version now as release and no longer as pre-release (it was marked like this because I'm working on a performance improvement and I wanted to release it together)

... so, in a way it was already fixed... now I can fly very stable without problems

7 hours ago, Rallyman03 said:

So I'm having an interesting bug...

I hope it's the same problem. Otherwise, if it's not solved with the new KJR (see first page for link), then send me a picutre or craft save file and I will try to get the same results on my machine

Edited April 26, 2018 by Rudolf Meier

[Freekinoutman]

11 hours ago, Rallyman03 said:

So I'm having an interesting bug...

I was having the same problem so I did a little testing myself. Tried the new KJR and still not working. I just took a 90 degree and put it on the side of a stock Mk1 pod. It seams the issues come up when changing the size of the joints. Large+, Large, and Large- work fine. Anything smaller and the part no longer moves and, if left for a few seconds, sends it into space or crashes the game. Looks as though it's trying to move but gets stuck somehow. This is really unfortunate because I'm trying to make a rover that's realistic in size (like curiosity or smaller) and without making these parts smaller the rover will be far too large to even launch.

[Rudolf Meier]

3 hours ago, Freekinoutman said:

I was having the same problem so I did a little testing myself. Tried the new KJR and still not working. I just took a 90 degree and put it on the side of a stock Mk1 pod. It seams the issues come up when changing the size of the joints. Large+, Large, and Large- work fine. Anything smaller and the part no longer moves and, if left for a few seconds, sends it into space or crashes the game. Looks as though it's trying to move but gets stuck somehow. This is really unfortunate because I'm trying to make a rover that's realistic in size (like curiosity or smaller) and without making these parts smaller the rover will be far too large to even launch.

Interesting... I will try it. Could still be KJR related... but I should find it with your description. Thanks a lot...

[Rudolf Meier]

16 hours ago, Freekinoutman said:

I was having the same problem so I did a little testing myself. Tried the new KJR and still not working. I just took a 90 degree and put it on the side of a stock Mk1 pod. It seams the issues come up when changing the size of the joints. Large+, Large, and Large- work fine. Anything smaller and the part no longer moves and, if left for a few seconds, sends it into space or crashes the game. Looks as though it's trying to move but gets stuck somehow. This is really unfortunate because I'm trying to make a rover that's realistic in size (like curiosity or smaller) and without making these parts smaller the rover will be far too large to even launch.

I can confirm this... that's a really interesting one. There is something very wrong when a joint is scaled down. I've to make some other tests to tell what it could be.

[Rodger]

I've had problems with the 180 degree hinge pivotrons (the flat one and thick one). When I extend them fully in flight, and they have weight on the end, they seem to over-extend, and the angle seems to overflow to 360 degrees or something, the joint locks up, and stuff jumps around and tends to break. If I use two 0-90 degree pivotrons attached to each other instead, there's no problems. Using beta3 p5, and KJR 3.4.1 p1, on KSP 1.3.1

It seems to be to do with inverting the axis too. This setup reproduces it. Once you extend it, you can't move the joint anymore, and you can still activate the servo until it breaks itself.

And speaking of inverted axis, when you pick up a robotic part with an inverted axis, it forgets the inverted axis state, so you need to select it again if you put it back down.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Rodger

[Critter79606]

@Rudolf Meier  I'm so glad to see that IR is being improved.  Thanks to everyone working on it!

I've got a question, and I think a minor bug report.

First the question.  The old IR used to have the parts get out of alignment between loading of saves, especially if the arm is on a station on a planet/moon (or on a rover docked to one).  Eventually I'd have to scrap the rover and build another one.  There would develop gaps between parts and get out of alignment (crooked).  Has this been addressed at all?

 

I've noticed that the limiter doesn't work if set.  I set this part to 0-90, and it would continue to the parts max, ignoring what I set.

I also checked launched, and it still went over the artificial limit.

I love this mod, and if you need help testing anything in particular, just let me know.

Thanks!

 

Edited April 27, 2018 by Critter79606

[Rudolf Meier]

4 hours ago, Critter79606 said:

First the question.  The old IR used to have the parts get out of alignment between loading of saves, especially if the arm is on a station on a planet/moon (or on a rover docked to one).  Eventually I'd have to scrap the rover and build another one.  There would develop gaps between parts and get out of alignment (crooked).  Has this been addressed at all?

Yes... that's what caused all the problems of beta3. It should not happen anymore (or, at least it should just shift as much as normal joints would also... but this should be just in the margin of rounding errors of floating point calculations... not visible at all).

 

4 hours ago, Critter79606 said:

I've noticed that the limiter doesn't work if set.  I set this part to 0-90, and it would continue to the parts max, ignoring what I set.

I also checked launched, and it still went over the artificial limit.

I thought this should work now... you cannot activate a limit if you are outside of it (at least in flight) ... but they should be respected. I'm not sure anymore if they are ignored in the VAB/SPH...

But I will try it again when I'm fixing the scaling problems.

6 hours ago, Rodger said:

I've had problems with the 180 degree hinge pivotrons (the flat one and thick one). When I extend them fully in flight, and they have weight on the end, they seem to over-extend, and the angle seems to overflow to 360 degrees or something, the joint locks up, and stuff jumps around and tends to break. If I use two 0-90 degree pivotrons attached to each other instead, there's no problems. Using beta3 p5, and KJR 3.4.1 p1, on KSP 1.3.1

It seems to be to do with inverting the axis too. This setup reproduces it. Once you extend it, you can't move the joint anymore, and you can still activate the servo until it breaks itself. 

Interesting... I know they can bend and therefor show values outside the range (because you can see the readout of current position, not of the currently commanded position... maybe I should change that?).

But still, they shouldn't get stuck because of that... I will look at it...

6 hours ago, Rodger said:

And speaking of inverted axis, when you pick up a robotic part with an inverted axis, it forgets the inverted axis state, so you need to select it again if you put it back down.

Inside the VAB? When detaching parts they reset some values. That's normal... or, lets say... I did this to solve some problems we had in the past. Maybe I don't have to reset that many things now that we have a better version. I will see if I could keep some more values set.

[Critter79606]

4 hours ago, Rudolf Meier said:

Yes... that's what caused all the problems of beta3. It should not happen anymore (or, at least it should just shift as much as normal joints would also... but this should be just in the margin of rounding errors of floating point calculations... not visible at all).

That is awesome to hear.  I had given up on IR for 1.3.x.

4 hours ago, Rudolf Meier said:

I thought this should work now... you cannot activate a limit if you are outside of it (at least in flight) ... but they should be respected. I'm not sure anymore if they are ignored in the VAB/SPH...

But I will try it again when I'm fixing the scaling problems.

Just an FYI.  I finally completed my shuttle arm at 1 am, the settings I had previously set started being honored.  I don't know if it's because I had more than one joint on the arm at that point, or if it's because I had to save and reload the ship due to some other issues that I don't think are IR related.  After finding the one joint stopping at 90, I set all the other joints and they indeed worked.  I'll try the single joint again tonight, as well as other types and see if it was just a fluke or it is repeatable.

Thanks for all the hard work!

 

[Rudolf Meier]

39 minutes ago, Critter79606 said:

That is awesome to hear.  I had given up on IR for 1.3.x.

there will also be an inverse kinematics module for those arms... and (that's already included) those arms can now activate the collisions so that you cannot move through your ships with the arm and whatever you transport with your arms

[yorshee]

When I initially landed a piece of my base (the right-hand side) and attached it to the main part (the left-hand side), those two docking ports you see at a 90 degree angle to each other connected with a hinge were actually facing one another, so if the hinge wasn't there they'd be ready to dock and so the part that's now clipping through the base was flush along the rest of the section on the left. (if this isn't making any sense I'll draw some outlines around everything to explain what's happening)

I loaded a quicksave and suddenly it's like it is in the screenshot - rotated so it's clipping through itself and no matter how I swivel the hinge, it can't get back to how it was. I think something messed up with the attachment nodes because it you look carefully, the base of the hinge is attached upside down now - you can see it pointing down-left instead of up-right.

Is this a known issue? Is there a way I can tweak the save file to fix the rotation of the hinge?

There's nothing wrong in the debug log btw, nothing is out of the ordinary, it's just like something happened to the part's rotation in the save file itself.

Edited April 28, 2018 by yorshee