Is the MEM really this Meh?

[johnnyhandsome]

Downloaded 1.4, excited about the MEM. Yet it doesn't seem like it's much, there's not ascent and descent parts, is that correct? It's just all one piece? 

[Brotoro]

The MEM is just the core of the ascent stage (cabin, RCS, LFO tank). You have to add the engine and docking port... and the rest of the lander design is up to you. You can build a descent stage in a variety of ways, depending on how capable or realistic-looking you want it.

Edited March 18, 2018 by Brotoro
Amusing typo made less amusing

[GrandProtectorDark]

If you add in a spark engine, the MEM has 1000 m/s of delta packaged withing it(according to KER).
Which sorta-ish can be enough for pure accent needs. A decent stage needs to be assembled manually though.

[DerekL1963]

Yeah, it's that meh.  It's designed to be a (more-or-less) historically accurate core for an ascent stage.    But they messed up the design so you have to use the move tool or play around and get lucky to mount the engine in its proper place.  The RCS and COM are in weird places.  It doesn't play well with other parts so you have to play games to install a useful ladder.  Etc... etc...

Basically, it was designed to look cool and functionality was an afterthought - and then sloppily executed.

[LordFerret]

50 minutes ago, Brotoro said:

The MEM is just the core of the ascent stage (cabin, RCS, LFO tank). You have to add the engine and dicking port... and the rest of the lander design is up to you. You can build a descent stage in a variety of ways, depending on how capable or realistic-looking you want it.

Heh... I thought your avatar said "give us noses". That would have worked too.

Interesting typo. That works also.

[Raptor9]

My only complaint with the MEM is that it's dwarfed compared to the Mk3-1 capsule.  Further exacerbating the comparison is the SM-25 service module is excessively long; assembling an Apollo-style craft consisting of a Mk3-1 pod, SM-25 service module, and RE-J10 Wolfhound engine makes the MEM look quite petite compared to the real-life LEM.

But as was stated multiple times, the DLC parts weren't supposed to be replicas, but rather Kerbalized analogues inspired by their real-life counterparts.  As much as I wish the MEM was larger, I think we're probably past a model revision.  And I would hate to imagine Leti or Pablo being forced to redo another IVA that already looks good.

[Temeter]

1 minute ago, Raptor9 said:

My only complaint with the MEM is that it's dwarfed compared to the Mk3-1 capsule.  Further exacerbating the comparison is the SM-25 service module is excessively long; assembling an Apollo-style craft consisting of a Mk3-1 pod, SM-25 service module, and RE-J10 Wolfhound engine makes the MEM look quite petite compared to the real-life LEM.

But as was stated multiple times, the DLC parts weren't supposed to be replicas, but rather Kerbalized analogues inspired by their real-life counterparts.  As much as I wish the MEM was larger, I think we're probably past a model revision.  And I would hate to imagine Leti or Pablo being forced to redo another IVA that already looks good.

Interestingly enough, with the amount of fuel it wouldn't be hard to justify a MEM as big as the MK1-3.

But then again, the smaller size is fine too. Most of the time we won't build exacty replicas, but use the parts for our own purposes. So there is use in a smaller lander capsule and it makes sense to be the size it is.

[Raptor9]

11 minutes ago, Temeter said:

But then again, the smaller size is fine too. Most of the time we won't build exacty replicas, but use the parts for our own purposes. So there is use in a smaller lander capsule and it makes sense to be the size it is.

Yeah, I agree.  It's hard to justify tailoring a part to meet a precise requirement when the entire parts system is built around the Lego-style assemble-your-own-spacecraft and "Use this part for whatever you want" potential.  The comparison just throws me a little.

[Temeter]

5 minutes ago, Raptor9 said:

Yeah, I agree.  It's hard to justify tailoring a part to meet a precise requirement when the entire parts system is built around the Lego-style assemble-your-own-spacecraft and "Use this part for whatever you want" potential.  The comparison just throws me a little.

It is weird, that's true.

[Brotoro]

4 hours ago, johnnyhandsome said:

Downloaded 1.4, excited about the MEM. Yet it doesn't seem like it's much, there's not ascent and descent parts, is that correct? It's just all one piece? 

Here's a Lunar Excursion Module that I built using the Making History parts for an Apollo mission I'm working on. It has separate descent and ascent stages with Spark motors in each. The descent stage has the same shape as the real Lunar Module, and the ship contains enough propellant to land on the Mun and return to munar orbit.

Oh... it does contain more parts than is strictly necessary, just to look cool.

Edited March 17, 2018 by Brotoro

[klgraham1013]

1 hour ago, Raptor9 said:

Yeah, I agree.  It's hard to justify tailoring a part to meet a precise requirement when the entire parts system is built around the Lego-style assemble-your-own-spacecraft and "Use this part for whatever you want" potential.  The comparison just throws me a little.

I never saw the MEM as being Lego style.  There's to much going on in it's design.  I'd lump it in with the Goliath and Mk3 wings as more model kit than lego.

[Wallygator]

Just now trying it all out.  The MEM seems to be basically a redesigned tuna can with a few extra features.  A bit narrower so it might fit inside a more tapered fairing. I like that it has no magical reaction wheel - Finally!

I''m ok with it all for the most part.

I bought the DLC for these kinds of parts. Glad I did.  Yet also glad that I did not get all hyped for the other non-part bits of the DLC.

Jury is still out though...  

[katateochi]

3 hours ago, Raptor9 said:

It's hard to justify tailoring a part to meet a precise requirement when the entire parts system is built around the Lego-style assemble-your-own-spacecraft and "Use this part for whatever you want" potential.  The comparison just throws me a little.

yes, I agree. It seems very un-Kerbal to have a pre-built part. I hope it doesn't suggest a new direction for future KSP parts. It's a part that I'm very unlikely to use.

[Zeiss Ikon]

I don't see the MEM being smaller than the LEM ascent stage as a bad thing.  Kerbals are smaller than humans (a bit).  The Mun is smaller than Luna, with, what, 1/3 the orbital velocity?

MEM fits the smaller scale of the game (if anything, the Mk. 1-2 and Mk. 1-3 command pods are a bigger than they need to be; we should be able to fit three Kerbals into a 1.75 m capsule, like a Mk. 2 with a "back seat" as was once proposed for Gemini).

Yes, the COM is off center.  Take a look at the original LEM layout; there was a lot of compromise in that spacecraft to get it to fit inside the fairing between the 3rd stage and the SM, and the ascent stage was, I've read, pretty cranky to fly.

I don't even mind having the RCS and two Round 8 (or whatever they call them now) tanks premounted.  Makes a good starting point and helps keep parts count down (presuming the thing counts as one part).

[Temeter]

3 hours ago, Brotoro said:

Here's a Lunar Excursion Module that I built using the Making History parts for an Apollo mission I'm working on. It has separate descent and ascent stages with Spark motors in each. The descent stage has the same shape as the real Lunar Module, and the ship contains enough propellant to land on the Mun and return to munar orbit.

Oh... it does contain more parts than is strictly necessary, just to look cool.

Yep, I always assumed those yellow panels where there to build a MEM.

What botheres me a bit is that there is no soyuz part at all. Vostok is more fun to use than I ever expected, though.

[Snark]

Moving to Making History Discussion.

[tater]

The CM of the MEM is too low, so the RCS is useless, sadly.

Also, the amount of fuel seems to be pretty excessive compared to comparable parts. It hold more crew, AND has loads of props, and it's the same size as the Mk1 lander can.

[Delbrutis]

1 hour ago, tater said:

The CM of the MEM is too low, so the RCS is useless, sadly.

Also, the amount of fuel seems to be pretty excessive compared to comparable parts. It hold more crew, AND has loads of props, and it's the same size as the Mk1 lander can.

There is a module manager patch for the LEM's Com although I have not got a chance to try it yet.

I was really hopping with this update and the DLC we would get a career rebalance or at least some sort of historical career play through. I think the mission editor is Meh. I'll have to see if the fan made missions make it redeemable? Squad's are not that fun to me. And I really don't see myself wasting any time making missions to share.I would have rather seen a stock tech tree update and some better career progression. "You Know Squad A Actual Finished Base Game" I like the Vostock but they really seem to have shafted the Russian side of the part list. US gets New tank size W/fairings and Saturn style thrust-mount one Service module  3 new engine's  two new capsule's and a lander. In contrast the Russian/Soviet faction gets one capsule ( yes I know their are three variants "but come on Squad same capsule same texture" And on top of that in a game where you introduce model and texture switching as a thing 3 capsule's same model and texture junking up my parts menu what? "Am I the only one who noticed this right off the bat?" Rant over) So one capsule a airlock a solid booster and a engine. I could give the other tank size to the Russian's but seeing and how they have soviet green textures and Saturn style B&W and the large tanks lack the soviet textures I won't. MK1 can with one man would make good Soviet lander but It's way to heavy.

 

[Delbrutis]

4 hours ago, Temeter said:

Yep, I always assumed those yellow panels where there to build a MEM.

What botheres me a bit is that there is no soyuz part at all. Vostok is more fun to use than I ever expected, though.

HGR is a very old mod. But if you get it  patched up everything works great . And I still think it's the best Stock Alike Soyuz mod. And looks great with new part's. You could probably pull out the Radish and a couple of the engine's because they just repeat the Stock squad part's