PETITION TO UTTERLY BAN POLITICS IN KSP

[Hotel26]

BE IT PROPOSED:

The first rule of KSP is that we never speak of politics.

The second rule of KSP is that our moderators kill any thread that starts with any innuendo of politics or that could conceivably or forseeably devolve into politics.

The third rule of KSP is that our moderators kill any response in a thread that agitates or provokes a political response, plus those responses.  It has to be 100% science or it disappears.

The fourth rule is that I refuse to speak specifically about politics in this thread which is a PETITION TO BAN POLITICS IN KSP.  Without speculating about why, there are those externally who may view KSP as some kind of collateral target.  We need to recognize that and have our moderators locked and loaded to repel invaders.

If you support this proposal, please chime in and make your ideas about it well-known.  Please observe Rule 1 and DO NOT EVEN START DISCUSSING POLITICS.  Just express your passion.

What I think we require is moderation that does not draw some line that can skilfully be navigated so as to leave its natural, healthy opposition caught offside.  We will be baited and we have to respond carefully and with aforethought.

If someone says something that draws your IRE, intentionally or otherwise, DO NOT RESPOND, but instantly report the post to the moderators.  Shun contact.  Let's shut down the distractors immediately they identify themselves.

I am sorry but in the case of the KSP Forum, if we cannot have "free speech" then I am totally opposed to "free" speech of any form in this forum.  I do not want to leave it to the moderators to draw some line in which an external agitateur/provacateur gets the first word and then finally, with their agency, the last word.  The intention of the poster no longer matters -- if the post offends anybody for any reason, then it doesn't belong in KSP.

Moderators: shut it down at the get-go.  Delete all traces.  The graffiti sprayed on the buildings alongside the commuter rail line at 3 am that are hastily whited over by 5:30 am soon stop.

 

Edited April 22, 2018 by Hotel26

[Geonovast]

This is already in the rules...

[Hotel26]

With egregious exceptions now extant.  The moderators do the best they can to give the benefit of doubt and I don't envy their job.  I am just one voice to encourage our moderators not to sweat it but to act decisively.  If it smells of politics or someone has complained, No Mercy.

I'm furious, actually.

Edited April 22, 2018 by Hotel26

[soulsource]

I'm against this, for a simple reason:

Who has to decide what is political and what is not? Is it political to discuss the benefits of Soviet engines over American ones? Is it political to talk about Valentina Kerman (female Kerbals were a topic of political debate...)?

[klgraham1013]

Talking about what freedoms of speech people should have is political.  I suggest this thread be locked as it has an innuendo of politics per the second rule layed forth in this thread.

[Mike Mars]

I didn't even realize this was an issue.

Why make it one?

I only click on topics I am interested in.  If I start to read something and find it is not what I thought it was, I just click away.

That mindset preserves freedom of speech and freedom of choice.

Have a good day everyone.

MM

[Hotel26]

3 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

Talking about what freedoms of speech people should have is political.

That's clever but I am not speaking about such a thing; I am speaking about KSP Forum and what is and isn't off-topic.  In my case, I come here expecting to discuss orbital mechanics and to share knowledge in common.  If someone raises another topic, I could stand that if I were free to respond fully.  The moderators very recently have made it clear that we should not respond to offensive political opinions and expect us to use some caution and judgement.  What I particularly object to is the coercive imposition of correct thought.  I won't have it.  This is not a political comment.  It's about the enjoyment of KSP.

If KSP has to be imbued with politics, then I'm in the wrong forum but while I am here, I must voice an opinion that I do NOT wish to be preached to.

[Snark]

First of all, moving this to Kerbal Network, since it's about the forum and not about KSP itself.

Second, locking the thread.  Because although it's no doubt well-intended, it's unnecessary (because politics is already not allowed), and also because there's essentially no possible way to have any discussion on this subject that won't devolve into angry arguments and cause precisely the kind of ugly kerfuffle that's why politics got banned from the forum in the first place.

Third, some content has been removed, for "backseat moderating."  Folks, do not publicly call for moderator action.  Do not say "I've reported this post".  It's not okay, and it's against forum rule 3.2.  If you need to report something, then by all means report it, but don't say publicly that you have done so.

And also do not make public statements about what you think the moderators are going to do.  That's our lookout, not yours.

Moderator decisions about moderator action are, quite rightly, a sensitive topic, which is why we don't do it out in the public view, out of respect for users' privacy.  If anyone has a concern about how the moderators are doing their job, or what choices we've made, etc., please feel free to contact any of us privately via PM.  But the public forum is not the right venue for such discussions.

 

Regarding the comments in this thread:

7 hours ago, Hotel26 said:

The first rule of KSP is that we never speak of politics.

No such petition is needed, because politics are already banned from the forum, and always have been.  From the forum guidelines:

Quote

2.2.b.  Political, ideological or religious posts unrelated to Spaceflight, or of a nature deemed likely to result in behavior banned under rule 2.2D;

So, you already have what you want. 

7 hours ago, Hotel26 said:

<various suggestions that the moderators deal with political content>

That's what we already do, thanks.

7 hours ago, soulsource said:

Who has to decide what is political and what is not?

The moderators do.

7 hours ago, soulsource said:

Is it political to discuss the benefits of Soviet engines over American ones?

On the face of it, no.  It's a simple discussion of technical details.  Of course, it could get political depending on what people choose to post there-- but then, that's true of any subject, up to and including a discussion of the relative merits of different breakfast cereals.

7 hours ago, soulsource said:

Is it political to talk about Valentina Kerman (female Kerbals were a topic of political debate...)?

Not necessarily.  She's based on a historical figure who was involved in spaceflight, nothing wrong with talking about that.  But again, though, context is anything-- any topic can be made political, if people try hard enough.

 

On the general subject of where the boundaries are, and what is or isn't okay:

Our general policy is that "less moderation is better moderation", since we want users to feel free to express themselves, as long as things don't boil over in massive flamewars that hurt everyone.  So, for the most part, we prefer to stay as hands-off as possible, until and unless things go off the rails in a thread and force us to step in-- and then we try to use the least-intrusive measure possible.  For example, we'll start by just pruning some inflammatory posts, and posting a polite request to play nice, please; and then if the thread persistently shows that there's simply no way the community can discuss the matter while behaving themselves like civil adults, then eventually we may be forced to lock the thread.

That said, there are some topics that experience has shown us simply can't be open, because they'll blow up in spectacular gouts of flame every single time.  So those, we'll go ahead and pre-emptively close, with an explanatory note such as this one.

Here's a discussion of the matter that you may find helpful:

 

6 hours ago, Mike Mars said:

I only click on topics I am interested in.  If I start to read something and find it is not what I thought it was, I just click away.

That mindset preserves freedom of speech and freedom of choice.

^ That's a pretty good (and practical!) attitude.    If everyone did that, the moderators' job would get a lot easier.  However, there are some topics that just seem to grab people in a way that they can't easily let go of, and that's what leads to forum meltdowns.  Thus the need for the no-politics rule.

Thanks to all for your understanding, and sorry that it was necessary to shut this down.