Newbie Central - Micro-challenges for new comers! - Closed

[Elon Kerman Jr]

@Alpha 360oh no I haven't done a single challenge when I said I would

[4x4cheesecake]

Thats actually pretty difficult

@VelocityPolaris Is it allowed to build a launch vehicle carrying the glider which will be separated to liftoff? Like a horizontal spaceshuttle but with no engines on the 'shuttle'? Of course, TWR would be calculated for the glider without the launch vehicle.

[VelocityPolaris]

18 hours ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

Thats actually pretty difficult

@VelocityPolaris Is it allowed to build a launch vehicle carrying the glider which will be separated to liftoff? Like a horizontal spaceshuttle but with no engines on the 'shuttle'? Of course, TWR would be calculated for the glider without the launch vehicle.

It looks like you've been reading the rules and trying to find a weasel-like way to not technically break them, but just skirt around them for an advantage. I wholeheartedly approve! This is how cool new stuff gets made in real life, so go for it!

Edited May 28, 2018 by VelocityPolaris

[4x4cheesecake]

10 minutes ago, VelocityPolaris said:

It looks like you've been reading the rules and trying to find a weasel-like way to not technically break them, but just skirt around them for an advantage. I wholeheartedly approve! This is how cool new stuff gets made in real life, so go for it!

That's the way you have to choose if cannot do it properly

[VelocityPolaris]

2 minutes ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

That's the way you have to choose if cannot do it properly

Let me provide a piece of advice: If at first you don't succeed, don't try try try again. That's the definition of insanity, I think. What I mean is that if you keep frustratingly tweaking the same design that shows little promise, you'll waste a lot of time, but if you branch out and try a few different approaches, you can find one that works well enough to improve upon.

In school, we had this challenge to build a tower out of spaghetti, string, and tape, and to put a marshmallow at the top of our tower. Whichever group had the tallest tower won. Before the challenge, the teacher explained to us how kindergarteners, on average, build taller towers than middle or high school students. It's because the regular students will keep putting effort into a design fated to fall over, while the kindergarteners try a bunch of things. 

[4x4cheesecake]

Done!

Splashed down after 10.1km (10.097,3m)

Spoiler

Mass of the glider is 5.920t, so I'm allowd to use a thrust of 119.4KN. The added launch vehicle got some Aerospikes and their thrust is reduced to 118.8KN (KER readout)

Small album (with pictures in the editor + readouts): https://imgur.com/gallery/C9v5BDS

[hoioh]

Took a couple of tries to get the engine configuration right, but once you've got it, you've got it.

Mass of 3.79t = thrust of 73.9 (actual thrust: 73.6)

Race down runway, pitch up, drop engines, coast to altitude, mild pitch down at max alt. wait, wait, wait some more. tilt back up right before the end to prolong it as long as possible, then ditch in the sea.

Result: 25.8km

Proof:

Spoiler

Video proof:

Spoiler

 

 

[Scarecrow]

4 hours ago, hoioh said:

Took a couple of tries to get the engine configuration right, but once you've got it, you've got it.

Mass of 3.79t = thrust of 73.9 (actual thrust: 73.6)

Race down runway, pitch up, drop engines, coast to altitude, mild pitch down at max alt. wait, wait, wait some more. tilt back up right before the end to prolong it as long as possible, then ditch in the sea.

Result: 25.8km

Proof:

  Reveal hidden contents

Video proof:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Watching that video, you seem to have exceeded the maximum engine burn time of 5 secs by quite some margin.

Here's my own entry.

Glider mass : 6.89 tonnes

Max allowed thrust : 137.8kn

Actual thrust :@ 137.38 kn

 

Launch point showing my reference buggy off the port wing

 

F3 menu shot showing engines jettisoned at 5 secs

 

Splashdown at 4.6km to qualify

[VelocityPolaris]

5 hours ago, hoioh said:

Took a couple of tries to get the engine configuration right, but once you've got it, you've got it.

Mass of 3.79t = thrust of 73.9 (actual thrust: 73.6)

Race down runway, pitch up, drop engines, coast to altitude, mild pitch down at max alt. wait, wait, wait some more. tilt back up right before the end to prolong it as long as possible, then ditch in the sea.

Result: 25.8km

 

49 minutes ago, Scarecrow said:

Watching that video, you seem to have exceeded the maximum engine burn time of 5 secs by quite some margin.

Yeah... I'm sorry, I have to agree with scarecrow. I would have overlooked it if it were just the residual thrust from throttled-down jets or props, but that burned a bit too long past the intended 5 seconds after all wheels leave the runway. Hoioh, you've made an elegant sailplane, which is why I hope you don't mind too much if I ask you to redo that.

Edited May 28, 2018 by VelocityPolaris

[Scarecrow]

Please ignore my previous entry.  I mis-read the rules and thought it was a total burn time of 5 secs, and not a max of 5 secs after lift off.  Doh. That was 4.6km with 5secs burn from a standing start.

Having moved my buggy reference to the end of the runway, I managed a slightly more impressive distance of 15.6km.  Burning along the runway to build up speed means I needed to add a bit more fuel, but could also increase the thrust to compensate for the extra weight.

New figures for my entry :-

Mass : 8.45 tonnes

Max thrust allowed : 169 kn

Actual thrust : 165.52 kn

Distance achieved : 15.6 km

 

Edited May 28, 2018 by Scarecrow

[VelocityPolaris]

8 hours ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

Done!

Splashed down after 10.1km (10.097,3m)

  Reveal hidden contents

Mass of the glider is 5.920t, so I'm allowd to use a thrust of 119.4KN. The added launch vehicle got some Aerospikes and their thrust is reduced to 118.8KN (KER readout)

Small album (with pictures in the editor + readouts): https://imgur.com/gallery/C9v5BDS

Excellent work, m8. If there were bonus points, you'd get them for flying tailless (innovation!). Also, good 'ol visual mods.

EDIT: Ah, yes, you've certainly earned your ENCCC medal. I'll put you down for one on the challenge main page.

2 minutes ago, Scarecrow said:

Please ignore my previous entry.  I mis-read the rules and thought it was a total burn time of 5 secs, and not a max of 5 secs after lift off.  Doh.

Having moved my buggy reference to the end of the runway, I managed a slightly more impressive distance of 15.6km.  Burning along the runway to build up speed means I needed to add a bit more fuel, but could also increase the thrust to compensate for the extra weight.

New figures for my entry :-

Mass : 8.45 tonnes

Max thrust allowed : 169 kn

Actual thrust : 165.52 kn

Distance achieved : 15.6 km

 

Well, I'll take it. Excellent work on the long wings and 0.625 m tail (more innovation!), I.O.U. one medal.

Edited May 28, 2018 by VelocityPolaris

[4x4cheesecake]

1 hour ago, VelocityPolaris said:

Excellent work, m8. If there were bonus points, you'd get them for flying tailless (innovation!). Also, good 'ol visual mods.

Thanks

The first version had a tail but I was able to gain ~1km more in distance by cutting it off. Less wight seems to be more profitable then having more stability at least for this craft

Edited May 28, 2018 by 4x4cheesecake

[Lucast0909]

Quicky Clarification, if the aircraft is on top of a launch cart, (basically a barrel with a big engine and a set of wheels)

1. Does the maximum thrust of the attached engine equal 200kn per 10 tons of aircraft, or 200kn per 10t of aircraft + launch cart together?
2. Provided the wheels don't leave the runway, is the launch cart clear to go the entire length of the runway under acceleration?

[VelocityPolaris]

2 minutes ago, Lucast0909 said:

Quicky Clarification, if the aircraft is on top of a launch cart, (basically a barrel with a big engine and a set of wheels)

1. Does the maximum thrust of the attached engine equal 200kn per 10 tons of aircraft, or 200kn per 10t of aircraft + launch cart together?
2. Provided the wheels don't leave the runway, is the launch cart clear to go the entire length of the runway under acceleration?

1. 200 KN per 10t of aircraft+launchcart combined

2. Yes.

[Scarecrow]

Thought I would do a video confirming the position of my reference buggy and the 5 sec burn after take off.  I had made a slight change to the craft, removing the airbrakes which I thought would lighten the load slightly, but it seems it also massively reduced the drag, as in this configuration I managed 20.3 km.

Although the craft was a little bit lighter, at 8.35 tonnes, my thrust of 165.52 still fell within the new max permitted of 167.

I've speeded up the replay to 10x during the glide to keep the video length reasonable.

 

 

 

Edited May 28, 2018 by Scarecrow

[VelocityPolaris]

Know what's impressive? Everybody so far has made a proper water landing, nothing broken or anything! I know for a fact that whoever does insurance for the KSP is definitely impressed.

If anybody's wondering why there's nothing on that challenge leaderboard yet, it's because I've encountered some technical difficulties. When I try to edit that post, it refuses, and says "This challenge can no longer be edited. It may have been moved or deleted, or too much time may have passed since it was posted for it to be edited."

Anyone know what the deal-io is with that? I checked and I can edit posts of mine older that that, so it's not the time issue.

[Scarecrow]

I also had that problem when I tried to edit my original entry, as I was hoping to delete it, but got the same message you are getting.

[hoioh]

3 hours ago, VelocityPolaris said:

 

Yeah... I'm sorry, I have to agree with scarecrow. I would have overlooked it if it were just the residual thrust from throttled-down jets or props, but that burned a bit too long past the intended 5 seconds after all wheels leave the runway. Hoioh, you've made an elegant sailplane, which is why I hope you don't mind too much if I ask you to redo that.

7 seconds (yes I just re-watched the video and paused the video when the wheels leave the ground at 33s and when I throttle down at 40s)

I think I can do better, might even exceed the 25km mark again with 2s less thrust. (Hold my beer!)

[hoioh]

There: 3-4 seconds this time, actually beat my previous distance by slightly over 1 km! Video to follow:

Spoiler

I could very likely still do better by fuel tuning the thing, currently it lands with 75/80 fuel in the tank

and the video proof: (by my count I take off at second 33 and shut off/detach the engines at seconds 36-37

Spoiler

 

 

[hoioh]

So I thought I could better if I ditched the gear and made a better start:

Spoiler

It's a bit tight on the timing though, I count 27s to 32s:

Did make it to 30km though 

 

[VelocityPolaris]

3 hours ago, hoioh said:

So I thought I could better if I ditched the gear and made a better start:

  Hide contents

It's a bit tight on the timing though, I count 27s to 32s:

Did make it to 30km though 

 

Ehhhhh, that's cutting it close but I'll take it. You've definitely earned a medal, anyway.

[Kerbinchaser]

@Alpha 360

Consider me for your challenge builders then.  

[Lucast0909]

Universal Aeronautics Product Catalogue:

Bombino RG-10

Who needs engines? Or cockpits? Or tails? If you agree with any of this, then Universal Aeronautics's civilian aircraft division has you covered! Presenting the Bombino micro-scale flying wing handy for even the most novice of pilots! Rocket powered launch cart sold separately.

• Aircraft Weight: 2.908t
• Known Maximum Glide Range: 15.2km
• Total weight: 10.7t
• Thrust: 205kn

Take Off Configuration:

Flight Album:

Spoiler

Universal Aeronautics and by extension General Universal are not responsible for any injuries sustained using Bombino RG-10. Rocket-powered launch cart may or may not be an old oil barrel full of rocket fuel and some large stones found in Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard. Warranty void if launch cart fails to separate after takeoff. Warranty void if aircraft flips at high speeds. Warranty void if any part of the aircraft arrives damaged. Warranty void if batteries explode while charging. Warranty void if autonomous R/C unit somehow gains sentience and attempts to murder you. Warranty void if you attempt to use glider as replica stealth bomber, (we build those too, if you want one just buy one.) Warranty void if you attempt to jury-rig jet engines to glider. Warranty void if it is not already void by whatever the heck you did with this thing.

[TheGuyNamedAlan]

not really a newbie but I'm gonna attempt anyways

[VelocityPolaris]

1 hour ago, Lucast0909 said:

Universal Aeronautics Product Catalogue:

Bombino RG-10

Who needs engines? Or cockpits? Or tails? If you agree with any of this, then Universal Aeronautics's civilian aircraft division has you covered! Presenting the Bombino micro-scale flying wing handy for even the most novice of pilots! Rocket powered launch cart sold separately.

What a magnificent feat of engineering! I'd add you to the ranking chart, but somehow I still can't edit that post.