probleme with parachute

Matheo G · May 14, 2018

hello, I want to make the lander Insight for ksp.
 I did the lander but I also wanted to do the module that Insight contains,
 for that so I did a parachute but I have a lot of problem (the parachute that does not slow down not enough, the parachute that has one that has problems with the aerodynamic force, the parachute that is still visible at the landing ...)
 is there anyone who could help me please?

I put you my fbx model, my cfg file and a video showing the problems

(sorry for english mistakes i am french )

mesh (fbx) http://www.mediafire.com/file/92l1gqoq3rv8pu9/inSightFairing.fbx

video :

PART
{
	name = inSight faring
	module = Part
	author = Matheo G
	MODEL
	{
		model = insight/fairing/insight_fairing
		scale = 0.4, 0.4, 0.4
	}
	scale = 0.5

	rescaleFactor = 1
	node_stack_top = 0.0, 2.7, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 2
	node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -0.6, 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 2
	node_attach =  0.0, 0.0, 1.905, 1.0, 0.0, 0.0, 2
	mass = 0.35
	// heatConductivity = 0.06 // half default
	dragModelType = default
	maximum_drag = 0.2
	minimum_drag = 0.2
	crashTolerance = 60
	buoyancyUseCubeNamed = PACKED
	breakingForce = 2000
	breakingTorque = 2000
	maxTemp = 1400
	TechRequired = advMetalworks
	entryCost = 45000
	cost = 18000
	category = Pods
	subcategory = 0
	title = insight fairing
	manufacturer = Nasa
	vesselType = Lander
	description = InSight is a robotic lander designed to study the interior of the planet Mars. The mission launched on 5 May 2018 at 11:05 UTC and is expected to land on the surface of Mars (landing site: Elysium Planitia) on 26 November 2018, where it will deploy a seismometer and burrow a heat probe. It will also perform a radio science experiment to study the internal structure of Mars.
	attachRules = 1,1,1,1,1

	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleCommand
	}
	RESOURCE
	{
		name = ElectricCharge
		amount = 200
		maxAmount = 200
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleReactionWheel
		PitchTorque = 9
		YawTorque = 9
		RollTorque = 9
		RESOURCE
		{
			name = ElectricCharge
			rate = 0.9
		}
	}
	RESOURCE
	{
		name = LiquidFuel
		amount = 500
		maxAmount = 80
	}
	RESOURCE
	{
		name = ElectricCharge
		amount = 80
		maxAmount = 80
	}
		RESOURCE
	{
		name = Oxidizer
		amount = 500	
		maxAmount = 500
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleDeployableSolarPanel
		animationName = solar
		isTracking = false
		secondaryTransformName = solar1
		pivotName = solar1
		isBreakable = false
		resourceName = ElectricCharge
		chargeRate = 2
		impactResistance = 1000000
	}

	



		MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleParachute
		semiDeployedAnimation = semiDeploy
		fullyDeployedAnimation = deploy
		invertCanopy = false
		autoCutSpeed = 0.5
		capName = cap
		canopyName = canopy
		stowedDrag = 0.22
		semiDeployedDrag = 1
		fullyDeployedDrag = 500
		minAirPressureToOpen = 0.04
		clampMinAirPressure = 0.04
		deployAltitude = 1000
		deploymentSpeed = 0.12
		semiDeploymentSpeed = 0.5
		chuteMaxTemp = 650
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleTestSubject
		useStaging = True
		useEvent = False
		situationMask = 8
		CONSTRAINT
		{
			type = ATMOSPHERE
			value = True
		}
		CONSTRAINT
		{
			type = SPEEDENV
			test = LT
			value = 200
			prestige = Trivial
		}
		CONSTRAINT
		{
			type = SPEEDENV
			test = GT
			value = 100
			prestige = Trivial
		}
		CONSTRAINT
		{
			type = SPEEDENV
			test = LT
			value = 100
			prestige = Significant
		}
		CONSTRAINT
		{
			type = SPEEDENV
			test = GT
			value = 50
			prestige = Significant
		}
		CONSTRAINT
		{
			type = SPEEDENV
			test = LT
			value = 50
			prestige = Exceptional
		}
		CONSTRAINT
		{
			type = SPEEDENV
			test = GT
			value = 20
			prestige = Exceptional
		}
		CONSTRAINT
		{
			type = DENSITY
			test = GT
			value = 0.2
			prestige = Trivial
		}
		CONSTRAINT
		{
			type = DENSITY
			test = GT
			value = 0.1
			prestige = Significant
		}
		CONSTRAINT
		{
			type = DENSITY
			test = GT
			value = 0.02
			prestige = Exceptional
		}
		CONSTRAINT
		{
			type = ALTITUDE
			test = GT
			value = 1000
		}
		CONSTRAINT
		{
			type = ALTITUDEENV
			test = GT
			value = 4000
			prestige = Trivial
		}
		CONSTRAINT
		{
			type = ALTITUDEENV
			test = LT
			value = 8000
			prestige = Trivial
		}
		CONSTRAINT
		{
			type = ALTITUDEENV
			test = GT
			value = 2000
			prestige = Significant
		}
		CONSTRAINT
		{
			type = ALTITUDEENV
			test = LT
			value = 4000
			prestige = Significant
		}
		CONSTRAINT
		{
			type = ALTITUDEENV
			test = GT
			value = 1000
			prestige = Exceptional
		}
		CONSTRAINT
		{
			type = ALTITUDEENV
			test = LT
			value = 2000
			prestige = Exceptional
		}
		CONSTRAINT
		{
			type = SPEED
			test = LT
			value = 300
			body = _Home
		}
		CONSTRAINT
		{
			type = SPEED
			test = LT
			value = 1000
			body = _NotHome
		}
		CONSTRAINT
		{
			type = REPEATABILITY
			value = ALWAYS
			prestige = Trivial
		}
		CONSTRAINT
		{
			type = REPEATABILITY
			value = BODYANDSITUATION
			prestige = Significant
		}
		CONSTRAINT
		{
			type = REPEATABILITY
			value = ONCEPERPART
			prestige = Exceptional
		}
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleDragModifier
		dragCubeName = SEMIDEPLOYED
		dragModifier = 0.67
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleDragModifier
		dragCubeName = DEPLOYED
		dragModifier = 25
	}

	
	DRAG_CUBE
	{
		cube = PACKED, 0.5892,0.6294,0.7139, 0.5892,0.6294,0.7139, 1.108,0.7804,0.6249, 1.108,0.9455,0.164, 0.5892,0.6305,0.7139, 0.5892,0.6284,0.7139, 0,0.226,0, 1.233,0.5889,1.233
		cube = SEMIDEPLOYED, 2.481,0.2866,0.7139, 2.481,0.2866,0.7139, 1.108,0.624,10.57, 1.108,0.6335,0.1685, 2.481,0.2876,0.7139, 2.481,0.2856,0.7139, 0,5.201,0, 1.233,10.54,1.233
		cube = DEPLOYED, 6.385,1.925,2.071, 6.385,1.925,2.071, 12.23,3.129,10.07, 12.23,3.08,10.58, 6.385,1.931,2.071, 6.385,1.92,2.071, 0,5.203,-5.96E-07, 3.958,10.54,3.958
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleTestSubject
		environments = 4
		useStaging = True
		useEvent = False
	}


}

Edited May 14, 2018 by MrPacmanCo

Ten Key · May 14, 2018

Hi @MrPacmanCo! I've gone ahead and moved your thread to the Add-On Discussions area of the forum. I'm afraid I don't have the technical expertise to answer your questions, but the people who frequent this area of the forum probably do. Hope you get it sorted out.

Booots · May 15, 2018

I've never modded parachutes, so I don't have the definitive answer for you, but I would look at the ModuleDragCubeModifier down near the bottom of the .cfg and/or the drag cube definitions to make sure the drag cubes match your model and that the drag cube modifiers are set correctly.

@sarbian wrote a good description of how some of these things work:

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/108665-cfg-modding-parachutes/&do=findComment&comment=1911077

Matheo G · May 15, 2018

1 hour ago, Booots said:

I've never modded parachutes, so I don't have the definitive answer for you, but I would look at the ModuleDragCubeModifier down near the bottom of the .cfg and/or the drag cube definitions to make sure the drag cubes match your model and that the drag cube modifiers are set correctly.

@sarbian wrote a good description of how some of these things work:

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/108665-cfg-modding-parachutes/&do=findComment&comment=1911077

thank you for your answer, I actually thought that the problem was the dragcube but I do not really understand how it works and I do not understand this line : 

 dragModifier = [B] [COLOR = # FF8C00] 12 [/ COLOR] [/ B]

why "COLOR"?

and i take the dragcube on mk25 parchute

Edited May 15, 2018 by MrPacmanCo

SpannerMonkey(smce) · May 15, 2018

3 minutes ago, MrPacmanCo said:



 dragModifier = [B] [COLOR = # FF8C00] 12 [/ COLOR] [/ B]

Hi, there's something very wrong there, that is not what is in a normal parachute cfg, and unless you're using something really odd to edit text files i cant see how dragModifier = 3.5 turns into what you have posted , you need to examine the stock parachute modules, and you'll see that what you have pasted is nothing like whats supposed to be there. What are you using to edit text files btw?

MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleDragModifier
		dragCubeName = DEPLOYED
		dragModifier = 3.5//<<<<<<<<<<< make this number higher to increase deployed drag 
	}

Parachutes are fairly simple , provided , they are aligned correctly , and animated correctly , and in my experience perform best when all but the canopy is at scale 1 in unity. The drag cube for any chute will be a 3 part affair , with the first section being stowed drag and the second being semi deployed and the third being fully deployed, you can view the game created drag cube in the main KSP folder by viewing the PartDatabase.cfg, and searching for example for parachuteDrogue AKA parachuteMk25 will get you this

PART
{
	url = Squad/Parts/Utility/parachuteMk25/parachuteMk25/parachuteDrogue
	DRAG_CUBE
	{
		cube = PACKED, 0.8769,0.6603,0.9837, 0.8761,0.6589,1.012, 1.522,0.7996,0.7116, 1.522,0.7965,0.2135, 1.522,0.8871,0.461, 1.522,0.829,0.6746, 0,0.226,0, 1.233,0.5889,1.233
		cube = SEMIDEPLOYED, 2.924,0.236,0.787, 2.93,0.2397,0.787, 1.522,0.6173,10.66, 1.522,0.5337,0.2106, 90.02,0.6607,0.6352, 90.02,0.6596,0.6914, 0,5.201,0, 1.233,10.54,1.233
		cube = DEPLOYED, 7.385,1.653,2.153, 7.387,1.659,2.153, 15.68,3.151,10.53, 15.68,1.98,0.2107, 93.9,3.389,2.022, 93.9,3.384,2.055, 0,5.203,-5.96E-07, 3.958,10.54,3.958
	}
}

Be aware however that each cube is generated for a specific model, if your model is correct then it should have produced it's own drag cube , that you should find in the same location . You should use that over any other parachutes cube

Matheo G · May 15, 2018

44 minutes ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:
Hi, there's something very wrong there, that is not what is in a normal parachute cfg, and unless you're using something really odd to edit text files i cant see how dragModifier = 3.5 turns into what you have posted , you need to examine the stock parachute modules, and you'll see that what you have pasted is nothing like whats supposed to be there. What are you using to edit text files btw?
MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleDragModifier
		dragCubeName = DEPLOYED
		dragModifier = 3.5//<<<<<<<<<<< make this number higher to increase deployed drag 
	}
Parachutes are fairly simple , provided , they are aligned correctly , and animated correctly , and in my experience perform best when all but the canopy is at scale 1 in unity. The drag cube for any chute will be a 3 part affair , with the first section being stowed drag and the second being semi deployed and the third being fully deployed, you can view the game created drag cube in the main KSP folder by viewing the PartDatabase.cfg, and searching for example for parachuteDrogue AKA parachuteMk25 will get you this
PART
{
	url = Squad/Parts/Utility/parachuteMk25/parachuteMk25/parachuteDrogue
	DRAG_CUBE
	{
		cube = PACKED, 0.8769,0.6603,0.9837, 0.8761,0.6589,1.012, 1.522,0.7996,0.7116, 1.522,0.7965,0.2135, 1.522,0.8871,0.461, 1.522,0.829,0.6746, 0,0.226,0, 1.233,0.5889,1.233
		cube = SEMIDEPLOYED, 2.924,0.236,0.787, 2.93,0.2397,0.787, 1.522,0.6173,10.66, 1.522,0.5337,0.2106, 90.02,0.6607,0.6352, 90.02,0.6596,0.6914, 0,5.201,0, 1.233,10.54,1.233
		cube = DEPLOYED, 7.385,1.653,2.153, 7.387,1.659,2.153, 15.68,3.151,10.53, 15.68,1.98,0.2107, 93.9,3.389,2.022, 93.9,3.384,2.055, 0,5.203,-5.96E-07, 3.958,10.54,3.958
	}
}
Be aware however that each cube is generated for a specific model, if your model is correct then it should have produced it's own drag cube , that you should find in the same location . You should use that over any other parachutes cube

thank you for your answer, I also try with the parachute drag cube mk25 nothing changes my part probably a problem but I do not know where it is,
 I put my Unity project for download if you want to examine ( I created my mesh on cinema 4d)

http://www.mediafire.com/file/0fs7xghzzcumvx7/insight%20fairing.zip

SpannerMonkey(smce) · May 15, 2018

5 minutes ago, MrPacmanCo said:

thank you for your answer

Hi again, the FBX doesnt help much as i don't know from that how you've set it all up in unity. I found in my old bookmarks a guide to making KSP parachutes, that work , SO if you go through it all again and follow the instructions included in the post below you should end up with a working parachute.

i will say though, that i think that chute is a little small to slow that capsule, but it's been many years since i've parachuted anything vaguely to do with space.

Matheo G · May 15, 2018

it's not the drag modifier because i up the value to 500 and nothing happen ...

thanks for the guide i going to see that

in the guide it's write "add cap to you mesh" i don't understand how and what is a "cap"

Edited May 15, 2018 by MrPacmanCo

SpannerMonkey(smce) · May 15, 2018

4 hours ago, MrPacmanCo said:

in the guide it's write "add cap to you mesh" i don't understand how and what is a "cap"

I shall fire up an old unity version and grab some images, however simply put , a parachute in KSP contains only 3 parts . The base , this is the part that holds everything and is attached to the craft. Cap is the cover that protects the chute when it is stowed, this cover pops off when the chute is deployed , and the canopy

This is a chute for a kerbal , but the workings are identical for them all

Note the hierarchy it matters , making the cap a child of the base will stop it popping off , for example

Base

Cap does not normally have a collider, fitted one in order to make it more visible for image

and finally the scaled canopy inside the base and below the cap

Hope this helps.. images from a unity 4.2.2 project ,

Matheo G · May 16, 2018

thanks i going to try that i think my problem come to hierarchy... and i make canopy as en empty object, it's not important ?

Booots · May 16, 2018

On 5/15/2018 at 1:10 PM, MrPacmanCo said:

it's not the drag modifier because i up the value to 500 and nothing happen ...

thanks for the guide i going to see that

in the guide it's write "add cap to you mesh" i don't understand how and what is a "cap"

You may have to delete PartDatabase.cfg to force KSP to update the values it has cached for the DragCubes (this applies even to DragCubeModifiers).

Matheo G · May 17, 2018

19 hours ago, Booots said:

You may have to delete PartDatabase.cfg to force KSP to update the values it has cached for the DragCubes (this applies even to DragCubeModifiers).

thanks for you answer, maybe do this make the parachute work but if i share my mod it's don't going to be easy for users

Matheo G · May 17, 2018

i update the mod the parchute can move now but the drag is the same and force direction the same to

Matheo G · May 17, 2018

i delete the drag_cube in my cfg file and in partDatabase config and now the parachute don't slow anythings

SpannerMonkey(smce) · May 18, 2018

5 hours ago, MrPacmanCo said:

i delete the drag_cube in my cfg file and in partDatabase config and now the parachute don't slow anythings

You need a drag cube somewhere, either the game generated one , or a modified one in your cfg, no drag cube = no drag = splat

Once you had deleted the old drag cube/s and restarted the game, the game should have rebuilt a new one . At worst it will have defined a procedural cube, but even that is better than none. Recheck the part database.cfg to be sure what has happened.

Matheo G · May 18, 2018

16 hours ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

You need a drag cube somewhere, either the game generated one , or a modified one in your cfg, no drag cube = no drag = splat

Once you had deleted the old drag cube/s and restarted the game, the game should have rebuilt a new one . At worst it will have defined a procedural cube, but even that is better than none. Recheck the part database.cfg to be sure what has happened.

ok but how make a drag cube, what the number mean ??

wasml · May 18, 2018

Some good info scattered throughout this thread:

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/106610-drag-cubes/

SpannerMonkey(smce) · May 18, 2018

1 hour ago, MrPacmanCo said:

ok but how make a drag cube

Hi you cant really or easily make one yourself , and do read that thread linked above, but as a rough guide the drag cube is comprised of 6groups of 3 numbers in order the numbers relate to Area, Drag, and Depth.

Matheo G · May 18, 2018

I update drag cube the vessel drag is better but the parachute don't do anythings again :



	



		MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleParachute
		semiDeployedAnimation = semiDeploy
		fullyDeployedAnimation = deploy
		invertCanopy = false
		autoCutSpeed = 0.5
		capName = cap
		canopyName = canopy
		stowedDrag = 0.22
		semiDeployedDrag = 1
		fullyDeployedDrag = 500
		minAirPressureToOpen = 0.04
		clampMinAirPressure = 0.04
		deployAltitude = 1000
		deploymentSpeed = 0.12
		semiDeploymentSpeed = 0.5
		chuteMaxTemp = 650
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleTestSubject
		useStaging = True
		useEvent = False
		situationMask = 8
	
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleDragModifier
		dragCubeName = SEMIDEPLOYED
		dragModifier = 0.67
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleDragModifier
		dragCubeName = DEPLOYED
		dragModifier = 20
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleTestSubject
		environments = 4
		useStaging = True
		useEvent = False
	}
	DRAG_CUBE
	{
		procedural = True
		cube = PACKED, 0.2515,0.7794,0.7982, 0.2515,0.7805,0.4945, 0.3272,0.6346,2.566, 0.3265,0.9342,2.366, 0.9639,0.8088,0.9319, 0.9639,0.9715,0.9578, 2.98E-08,-1.006,0.1003, 0.7929,2.493,1.45
		cube = SEMIDEPLOYED, 58.19,0.2756,5.374, 58.19,0.2736,5.795, 30.92,0.896,60.72, 30.92,0.5393,58.81, 72.55,0.1988,18.59, 72.55,0.4446,19.07, -0.07179,28.13,-8.731, 6.517,60.76,20.15
		cube = DEPLOYED, 646.7,0.6772,55.35, 646.7,0.6782,56.54, 1704,0.7086,64.52, 1704,0.7031,65.62, 978.5,0.7125,54.42, 978.5,0.6767,53.03, 0.05322,27.48,-14.87, 60.63,70.11,59.11
	}

}

Edited May 18, 2018 by MrPacmanCo

Matheo G · May 20, 2018

I see the config of the parachute for dragon cargo in Laztek pack and he dont make any drag cube and he dont make a "dragmodifer" variable and his parchure work very good... WHY ?

SpannerMonkey(smce) · May 20, 2018

Hi , without seeing how the part is set up in unity, every intimate detail, part rotations and scales etc it's impossible to know. I really suspect at this point that you have something wrong in unity , probably related to the parts rotation

Every part in the game gets a drag cube, and if the game can't make one, it gives it a procedural cube( nasty things) So the chute you mention will have drag cube either in it's cfg or created by the game each time the part is loaded, and that as you know is to be found in the PartDatabase.cfg.

The reason for the no drag modifier is simply because his chute generates enough drag without one, it's not required, and in some ways the modifier is a bandaid solution to the chute being way too small for the job it's required to do .

I'm unsure what you mean by make a drag cube? we are losing meanings in translation i think. You cant really make a drag cube , you can modify already created ones, and the game generates new ones, but no , it's not something you should just make up.
The link that was posted several posts ago , includes a link to a drag cube modifying tool ( you can make things more or less draggy) though you should know about that if you've read the link post, which has some of the best info in drag cubes to be found.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

	DRAG_CUBE
	{
		procedural = True <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<THIS SHOULD NOT BE HERE
		cube = PACKED, 0.2515,0.7794,0.7982, 0.2515,0.7805,0.4945, 0.3272,0.6346,2.566, 0.3265,0.9342,2.366, 0.9639,0.8088,0.9319, 0.9639,0.9715,0.9578, 2.98E-08,-1.006,0.1003, 0.7929,2.493,1.45

Re your made up drag cube.

procedural = True

Does not belong in there, and where or how did you get that combination?

procedural = True Is what the game does when it cant work out a drag cube , and is never found complete with cube = . procedural = True only usually appears on things with multiple animations, and never as you have it there

If that is indeed a proper drag cube for the part remove the procedural = True and see what happens

Edited May 20, 2018 by SpannerMonkey(smce)

Matheo G · May 21, 2018

THE DRAG WORK !!!!!!! but the parachute descent crooked... can you see my unity project (http://www.mediafire.com/file/0fs7xghzzcumvx7/insight fairing.zip) to tell me where have wrong ?

Edited May 21, 2018 by MrPacmanCo

Matheo G · May 22, 2018

why ? ...

SpannerMonkey(smce) · May 22, 2018

1 hour ago, MrPacmanCo said:

why ? ...

Mostly your hierarchy and the weird was you've done such a simple thing out of many meshes A parachute in KSP ( as far as i'm aware) is expected to be just 3 parts , Base Cap and Canopy . Even in your model that could still be easily achieved, the base should only be the base for the chute , not the whole craft
Non of the pivots seem to bear any relation to the meshes , being somewhere in space, there are also present, all of the possible incorrect pivot rotations and hardly any of those are on any alignment that can see
I though I'd posted this before but it seems not
Read the following it precisely describes the how to of a parachute. It simply will not work any other way .

AND check those images i posted previously compare that hierarchy and the rotations to yours. the answer is there and has been for a few days

Edited May 22, 2018 by SpannerMonkey(smce)

Matheo G · May 22, 2018

here you have my hierarchy, i can convert all the base to one object but the parachute will have the same color everywhere... thanks again for you help and i'm realy sorry because i don't understand all what you say so you maybe found me strange but i do my best :wink:

in the middle it's write

- simple-cable

-multi-cable

-red part on the parachute

-white part on the parachute

(the font is very small)

Edited May 22, 2018 by MrPacmanCo

probleme with parachute

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