WW2 BAD-T IV BDAc AI Dogfight Tournament

[sturmhauke]

I'm having a hell of a time scoring any hits on the dummy with my heavy. I think I need a lot more control surface area.

[Pds314]

21 minutes ago, sturmhauke said:

I'm having a hell of a time scoring any hits on the dummy with my heavy. I think I need a lot more control surface area.

Pay attention to mass too. I know wings can get super heavy when they're chained off each other. Is it having trouble getting on its tail?

Best idea ever:

Get the dummy.

Replace parts with procedural parts to build a new plane the same shape as the dummy.

Give it a Wizard or Buzzer and dual 30mm.

Paint it.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Pds314

[aleksey444]

On 10/19/2018 at 1:06 PM, SuicidalInsanity said:

Alright, there's one week from today to submit an aircraft; so far I've received 1 entry. Several of you have posted development pics for aircraft, but for the lurkers in the thread, could I get a quick show of hands from those working on an entry to get an estimate of tournament roster size/how many bots will be needed and/or determine if I need to extend the deadline?

Lurker here.

I'm working on a craft.  However, I'm away from home until November 5th, so I could use more time.

If I'm the only one who needs more time, I will just submit what I have on October 26th.  But if there are others, please consider extending the deadline.

Thanks.

 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Pds314 said:

Okay... I may have built a heavy that can kill my shadowbird..

.... IF it can avoid 580 mph dives to its doom... Note the pitch. This is AI stupidity, not lack of maneuverability.

If it gets a burst on you... you're gonna lose parts. Mk108 was quoted IRL as delivering "Shattering" hits. It has excellent energy retention in a turn in comparison to literally all of my other planes except the flying wing (which the AI can't control even for 15 seconds).

Oh.

Oh.

*enters panic mode*

[Pds314]

60 m/s rover/sled with a fan:

EDIT: wrong thread.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Pds314

[sturmhauke]

LOL. Now put a howitzer on it.

[Pds314]

14 minutes ago, sturmhauke said:

LOL. Now put a howitzer on it.

woops wrong thread. xD

[sturmhauke]

I bet it could fly with...  moar boosters. 

[Pds314]

26 minutes ago, sturmhauke said:

I bet it could fly with...  moar boosters. 

Oh well it's actually derived from this stock aircraft which is more than capable of flight.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Pds314

[sturmhauke]

Looks dangerous. I'll take two.

[Pds314]

6 minutes ago, sturmhauke said:

Looks dangerous. I'll take two.

If I switch over to my FAR install I could probably make something that could compete with BAD-T props. Sadly however, while AOA% can be used as a way to have more or less constant RPM at a given altitude, there is no way that I know of to prevent the AI from assuming the prop in front of it is a piece of debris and constantly trying to dodge.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Pds314

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Pds314 said:

piece of debris and constantly trying to dodge

lolololol.

BDA AI at its finest

[sturmhauke]

Sounds like when you put a ring from a milk jug on a cat's tail.

[Pds314]

Like, I just made a fighter in stock KSP and it's faster than the dummy can go in stock KSP. The problem is that the Dummy cannot go very fast. 66 m/s. I think this may be due to stock KSP applying drag to the rotor disk though.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Pds314

[Van Disaster]

48 minutes ago, Pds314 said:

Like, I just made a fighter in stock KSP and it's faster than the dummy can go in stock KSP. The problem is that the Dummy cannot go very fast. 66 m/s. I think this may be due to stock KSP applying drag to the rotor disk though.

Or it's that stock air is still gooier than FAR.

Won't make this, been busy & didn't notice it was running again ( I'd kinda stopped visiting looking for the WW1 event :p ) - will spectate. My entry from last year is around on KerbalX still, not sure if it works as well in a current build.

[Pds314]

22 minutes ago, Van Disaster said:

Or it's that stock air is still gooier than FAR.

Won't make this, been busy & didn't notice it was running again ( I'd kinda stopped visiting looking for the WW1 event :p ) - will spectate. My entry from last year is around on KerbalX still, not sure if it works as well in a current build.

It is gooey but also it in the aero data that A*cD was like over 4 m^2. Compared to a fraction of a m^2 in FAR. Other Mk1 craft using throttled down thrust reversers have no such issue

Edited October 24, 2018 by Pds314

[Noir]

On 10/20/2018 at 4:06 AM, SuicidalInsanity said:

Alright, there's one week from today to submit an aircraft; so far I've received 1 entry. Several of you have posted development pics for aircraft, but for the lurkers in the thread, could I get a quick show of hands from those working on an entry to get an estimate of tournament roster size/how many bots will be needed and/or determine if I need to extend the deadline?

I'm working on a heavy fighter, which is almost complete. I don't expect much from it, but it should do better than my BAD-T II entry...

[sturmhauke]

I'll submit if I can solve my control issues...

17 hours ago, Pds314 said:

Pay attention to mass too. I know wings can get super heavy when they're chained off each other. Is it having trouble getting on its tail?

Yeah, I'm not that heavy though (dry mass around 5.5t). But I could probably stand to move more mass out of the tail structures and into the wings, along with increasing the control area.

[Pds314]

16 minutes ago, sturmhauke said:

I'll submit if I can solve my control issues...

Yeah, I'm not that heavy though (dry mass around 5.5t). But I could probably stand to move more mass out of the tail structures and into the wings, along with increasing the control area.

Hmmmmmm... can I see a pic of the plane? 5.5t dry mass should be more than competitive weightwise (especially against the dummy!)

What does the FAR pitch = 1 cM and cL graph look like?

Edited October 24, 2018 by Pds314

[SuicidalInsanity]

1 hour ago, Van Disaster said:

Won't make this, been busy & didn't notice it was running again ( I'd kinda stopped visiting looking for the WW1 event :p ) - will spectate. My entry from last year is around on KerbalX still, not sure if it works as well in a current build.

I'd need to make some minor changes to make it legal for BAD-T IV/fix B9PW weirdness when loading an older craftfile, but that shouldn't take more than a minute or 2; other than that it should be good to go. Should I include the D.A.C. Deimos X in BAD-T IV's roster?

Sturmhauke: Are the AI steer Factor/Limiter/Damping settings set to appropriate values? If they're still default, the AI's using a SteerFactor of 6, which means the AI is only using about a third of the craft's potential maneuverability.

[sturmhauke]

12 minutes ago, Pds314 said:

Hmmmmmm... can I see a pic of the plane? 5.5t dry mass should be more than competitive weightwise (especially against the dummy!)

What does the FAR pitch = 1 cM and cL graph look like?

Here it is:

Spoiler

 

9 minutes ago, SuicidalInsanity said:

Sturmhauke: Are the AI steer Factor/Limiter/Damping settings set to appropriate values? If they're still default, the AI's using a SteerFactor of 6, which means the AI is only using about a third of the craft's potential maneuverability.

I've tried messing with those, but it seems to be making things worse lol. I'll try again.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, sturmhauke said:

Here it is:

  Hide contents

 

I've tried messing with those, but it seems to be making things worse lol. I'll try again.

With those size wings, it should be pretty manuverable. Is the CoL just behind the CoM?

Also, a tip suggested by @SuicidalInsanity last year for ai tweaking, fly the airplane by hand, and adjust the max deflection until full input is the fastest you want it turning. Then, you simply max out the steer factor, and only have to tweak the damping. 

Edited October 24, 2018 by Guest

[sturmhauke]

4 minutes ago, dundun92 said:

With those size wings, it should be pretty manuverable. Is the CoL just behind the CoM?

Yeah. I'm tweaking the AI settings now, we'll see how it goes.

[Pds314]

1 hour ago, SuicidalInsanity said:

Sturmhauke: Are the AI steer Factor/Limiter/Damping settings set to appropriate values? If they're still default, the AI's using a SteerFactor of 6, which means the AI is only using about a third of the craft's potential maneuverability.

I don't think this is the case. If you have a steer factor of 0.1, but you completely disable damping and ki, the craft will still apply full pitch in every turn it tries to do. The difference is that it won't quickly slam the pitch around but act somewhat like someone pressing the alt-key.

Likewise, if you have steer factor at, say, 30.0 using unclamped adjustments, but you turn damping to 60.0, you will not get a viscous maneuverability to 1.5 times the maximum. You will get snapping in 1 frame to a steering value of about 0.5.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Pds314

[sturmhauke]

I think I've got a successful design finally! Thanks everyone for the tips. 

Spoiler