Strategic Bomber Procurement (Reboot!)

[Kebab Kerman]

Well, I said a few hundred episodes, but apparently I was wrong. Here ya go!

Three different bays! Woohoo!

[sturmhauke]

27 minutes ago, Kebab Kerman said:

I unofficially call that eligible because of how COOL THAT IS

Thanks! Actually, it occurs to me I might be able to mount an eligible payload. I used the cargo bays just as a hollow fuselage structure, with the Mk 2 pieces on top carrying the fuel and most of the load. But there should be a decent amount of room left inside the bays for more bombs. Might need to lose a couple rockets to make room for more engines though.

[qzgy]

47 minutes ago, Kebab Kerman said:

Three different bays! Woohoo!

The question isn't how many bays you have, its how many bombs you hold.

looks like it'll hold quite a bit though.

[Kebab Kerman]

3 minutes ago, qzgy said:

The question isn't how many bays you have, its how many bombs you hold.

looks like it'll hold quite a bit though.

Yeah probably.

Now onto the cluster bombs

[Pds314]

"-2pts per basic jet engine, -3pts per panther, -4pts per turbojet, -10pts per RAPIER engine. Rockets carry no penalty but, remember, they may not be used for takeoff."


So let me get this straight, A Wheesley costs -2.02 points, but a Goliath costs -0.02 points?

[sturmhauke]

1 hour ago, Pds314 said:

"-2pts per basic jet engine, -3pts per panther, -4pts per turbojet, -10pts per RAPIER engine. Rockets carry no penalty but, remember, they may not be used for takeoff."


So let me get this straight, A Wheesley costs -2.02 points, but a Goliath costs -0.02 points?

I think that language is from an ancient KSP version. I'd argue that the Goliath is the same type as the Wheesley (turbofan), just larger. Also the Whiplash's internal part name is jetEngineTurbo, and is sometimes still called "the turbojet" by older players.

https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Parts/Engines

[qzgy]

MMMMkay so..... the monster flies.

Just about. Album here.

Scoring

More boom: - 264*12 = 3168

100 Convincing Arguments: +20

SPACE Bomber!: +20 (not shown, but has been tested to be possible)

Top speed at 3km of about 700 m/s: +70

Maintenance - 32 Rapiers and 4 Goliaths --> -320 (No penalty for goliaths? Ok I guess)

Also add the uhhh 740 parts: - 14.8

Did the math: +100

Fastest Heavy bomber (for now I think): +10

Gentle Giant (its anything but): +20

Service Ceiling (It's powered by rapiers. And rockets. Is it really necessary to prove?): +15

Such Stealth, very sneak: Its kinda flying wing-ish right? +2

Total score!: 3090.2 Points.

That more boom thing is very OP. Especially in the heavy bomber range, there's like no point to actually try the other challenges (although it probably could). Still, the engineering itself is a fun challenge! Especially trying to drop bombs at many 100s of meters per second......

If goliaths are penalized by 2 points, then the final score should be 3082.2.

[Kernel Kraken]

5 hours ago, sturmhauke said:

I made this other bomber a while back. It's not eligible for this challenge since the payload is wing-mounted, but you can get a look at my heavy rockets if you need an alternate payload design.

  Hide contents

 

 

5 hours ago, Kebab Kerman said:

I unofficially call that eligible because of how COOL THAT IS

Its now elegible, mabye we can work out a scoring system based on the mass/ part count of custom payloads with a separate leaderboard. I'll score later if you provide more stats/ side objectives reached and work something out. 

So, yeah. That's awesome.

2 hours ago, Pds314 said:

"-2pts per basic jet engine, -3pts per panther, -4pts per turbojet, -10pts per RAPIER engine. Rockets carry no penalty but, remember, they may not be used for takeoff."


So let me get this straight, A Wheesley costs -2.02 points, but a Goliath costs -0.02 points?

Emm.......

Yeah, this challenge was made in like .25-9.0, there's still some stuff that needs updating.

1 hour ago, qzgy said:

MMMMkay so..... the monster flies.

Just about. Album here.

Scoring

More boom: - 264*12 = 3168

100 Convincing Arguments: +20

SPACE Bomber!: +20 (not shown, but has been tested to be possible)

Top speed at 3km of about 700 m/s: +70

Maintenance - 32 Rapiers and 4 Goliaths --> -320 (No penalty for goliaths? Ok I guess)

Also add the uhhh 740 parts: - 14.8

Did the math: +100

Fastest Heavy bomber (for now I think): +10

Gentle Giant (its anything but): +20

Service Ceiling (It's powered by rapiers. And rockets. Is it really necessary to prove?): +15

Such Stealth, very sneak: Its kinda flying wing-ish right? +2

Total score!: 3090.2 Points.

That more boom thing is very OP. Especially in the heavy bomber range, there's like no point to actually try the other challenges (although it probably could). Still, the engineering itself is a fun challenge! Especially trying to drop bombs at many 100s of meters per second......

If goliaths are penalized by 2 points, then the final score should be 3082.2.

My brain hurts.

On the More boom, it is significantly easier to cram hundreds of ore tanks into a bay than it is to cram FLT-400's I to a bay. I don't wanna make everyone redo their math but I'll get around to it, as well as updating the rest of the challenge, to 1.3+. 

Edited October 23, 2018 by Kernel Kraken

[panzerknoef]

I've got a little question about the "mothership" challenge thing. Does it have to be capable of carrying those extra planes on top of its full payload? Or can it carry them without the payload? 

 

also, @Laie 10:20

Edited October 23, 2018 by panzerknoef

[Kebab Kerman]

Wait

We can carry planes on planes?

This isn't a good idea I'll take like 10.

[Kernel Kraken]

4 hours ago, panzerknoef said:

I've got a little question about the "mothership" challenge thing. Does it have to be capable of carrying those extra planes on top of its full payload? Or can it carry them without the payload? 

 

also, @Laie 10:20

I feel like carrying without to make it easier, I will have to set a minimum mass or something so you can't just spam probe cores and winglets in a bomb bay for points.

[panzerknoef]

2 hours ago, Kernel Kraken said:

I feel like carrying without to make it easier, I will have to set a minimum mass or something so you can't just spam probe cores and winglets in a bomb bay for points.

Alright that seems fair! I'd say the added planes must have a pilot as well, just for the sake of challenge. A flying probe doesn't count as a fully fledged aircraft to me

Edited October 23, 2018 by panzerknoef

[qzgy]

11 hours ago, Kernel Kraken said:

My brain hurts.

On the More boom, it is significantly easier to cram hundreds of ore tanks into a bay than it is to cram FLT-400's I to a bay. I don't wanna make everyone redo their math but I'll get around to it, as well as updating the rest of the challenge, to 1.3+.  

Sorry about that?

Also, what do you mean by FLT-400s? Are those a new payload or what?

But yeah, definitely agree its not too terribly hard to cram hundreds of ore tanks into a bay.

11 hours ago, Kernel Kraken said:

mabye we can work out a scoring system based on the mass/ part count of custom payloads with a separate leaderboard.

Well... each bomb carried externally is 5 points and .875 tons, so its about 5.7 points per ton. You could just award that many points per ton of external payload and 13.7 points per ton carried internally. (dividing current point per bomb by wet mass)

[Kernel Kraken]

11 minutes ago, qzgy said:

Sorry about that?

Also, what do you mean by FLT-400s? Are those a new payload or what?

But yeah, definitely agree its not too terribly hard to cram hundreds of ore tanks into a bay.

Well... each bomb carried externally is 5 points and .875 tons, so its about 5.7 points per ton. You could just award that many points per ton of external payload and 13.7 points per ton carried internally. (dividing current point per bomb by wet mass)

In the origional incarnation, the bombs were FLT-400s. I changed it to ore tanks because they're more bomb sized.

[qzgy]

Just now, Kernel Kraken said:

In the origional incarnation, the bombs were FLT-400s. I changed it to ore tanks because they're more bomb sized.

Ohhhh ok. Yeah that does make sense.

[Kernel Kraken]

14 minutes ago, qzgy said:

Sorry about that?

Also, what do you mean by FLT-400s? Are those a new payload or what?

But yeah, definitely agree its not too terribly hard to cram hundreds of ore tanks into a bay.

Well... each bomb carried externally is 5 points and .875 tons, so its about 5.7 points per ton. You could just award that many points per ton of external payload and 13.7 points per ton carried internally. (dividing current point per bomb by wet mass)

I changed it to 6pts per internal bomb and 3 per external- seems a bit more balanced and I think finding the weight of only the bombs would be a tad tedious.

On custom payloads- do tall think I should judge by mass of the individual bombs or part count of the individual bombs?

Edited October 23, 2018 by Kernel Kraken

[qzgy]

Just now, Kernel Kraken said:

I changed it to 6pts per internal bomb and 3 per external- seems a bit more balanced and I think finding the weight of only the bombs would be a tad tedious.

noooo my calculations.......

Yeah probably would be, I was just suggesting it for those entries where custom bombs were made. For the ore tanks though, if you're counting the number it's just an extra step of multiplication (multiply by the bomb weight which for a radial ore tank is 0.875 tons)

5 minutes ago, Kernel Kraken said:

On custom payloads- do tall think I should judge by mass of the individual bombs or part count of the individual bombs?

I think mass. Part count isn't really as much a factor as mass until you get into a stupid number of bombs.

[panzerknoef]

10 minutes ago, Kernel Kraken said:

I changed it to 6pts per internal bomb and 3 per external- seems a bit more balanced and I think finding the weight of only the bombs would be a tad tedious.

On custom payloads- do tall think I should judge by mass of the individual bombs or part count of the individual bombs?

I'd go for mass, going with pure part count pretty much limits the top of the leaderboard to the people with the most powerful computers. Judging on mass allows more people to score high I think 

[sturmhauke]

I'll post the specs on my bomber when I get a chance, for reference.

[Laie]

1 hour ago, Kernel Kraken said:

In the origional incarnation, the bombs were FLT-400s. I changed it to ore tanks because they're more bomb sized.

For the sake of part count, I think it would be reasonable to allow bigger bombs. Ore tanks come in several sizes, after all. On my few attempts at building something bigger, the payload has given me: integration issues, wobbliness, kraken strikes, and a low frame rate. Getting a large number of small bombs into (and out of) the bay is a task of its own. Not sure if it really makes the challenge better.

[Kernel Kraken]

1 hour ago, Laie said:

For the sake of part count, I think it would be reasonable to allow bigger bombs. Ore tanks come in several sizes, after all. On my few attempts at building something bigger, the payload has given me: integration issues, wobbliness, kraken strikes, and a low frame rate. Getting a large number of small bombs into (and out of) the bay is a task of its own. Not sure if it really makes the challenge better.

Hmm... I'll just set up something like a points per ton thing, and with that system people can make their own payloads.

2 hours ago, qzgy said:

Sorry about that?

Also, what do you mean by FLT-400s? Are those a new payload or what?

But yeah, definitely agree its not too terribly hard to cram hundreds of ore tanks into a bay.

Well... each bomb carried externally is 5 points and .875 tons, so its about 5.7 points per ton. You could just award that many points per ton of external payload and 13.7 points per ton carried internally. (dividing current point per bomb by wet mass)

I'll round it- 6points per ton carried externally, 14 per ton carried internally.

Y'all can keep your current scores, unless you want to make a new submission or anything.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Kernel Kraken

[Kernel Kraken]

21 hours ago, Kebab Kerman said:

Well, I said a few hundred episodes, but apparently I was wrong. Here ya go!

Three different bays! Woohoo!

I'm guessing this is for the mod leaderboard...?

What mod are those props from? I can't get any props to keep something more than half a ton in the air.

[Kebab Kerman]

5 minutes ago, Kernel Kraken said:

I'm guessing this is for the mod leaderboard...?

What mod are those props from? I can't get any props to keep something more than half a ton in the air.

It's from SXT, and it's the NK-12. It's also powered by 7 Goliath engines and 4 wheesleys too, though, and even then it can barely take off. I don't even know if it can land, much less carry any bombs. If you want a good, efficient propeller engine, try NearFuture Aeronautics. It has my personal favorite engine in it!

[Kebab Kerman]

Cluster bomb test was a failure, as all the tanks stayed on their decouplers instead of detaching into individual parts

[Joseph Kerman]

Not a strategic bomber, but should do.