It was just a simple sat contract .........

[Kevin Kyle]

Yep, simple it seemed. I clicked right on it and didnt give it a second thought until I went to build it. Got to looking at things and I suddenly realize that this orbit (around the Sun) is nearly out to Neidon. Ive only just left the Kerbin system recently in this career. I am woefully ill prepared to take this mission on. Im going to have to launch some sort of communication system thats adequate to maintain a signal first. I dont think I have opened up enough tech for that yet not to mention that I got to get that sat out there too which I also havent opened up tech for. This is going to make those manned Duna trips look like a casual visit to the Mun. Dont think Im going to make any scratch on this contract or more likely Im going to lose a good bit. Right now my heads about to explode over the logistics of it all. Probably a good time to go watch some tv and think about it a bit. Im wide open to suggestions about what it takes to put a sat that far out. Any advanced tutorials or youtube vids out there that covers such a mission? Were probably beyond tutorials on this one come to think of it. I should smash my mouse clicking finger with a hammer.

[The Aziz]

Gravity assist. That will increase mission time probably but it's gonna be cheaper. Since it's near Neidon, I recommend Jool or Sarnus for gravity assist. If you have any sort of d-v reading, you can just put a maneuver node on any already existing vessel in LKO and find out needed fuel budget.

And you could probably do it with 2.5m launch vehicle and some lightweight upper stages. However, you probably need to wait for alternate methods of powering the craft since solar panels won't work there very well. When does the contract expire though?

[GearsNSuch]

"It's never a simple sat contract."

- Orville Wright, 1902

 

...

 

As far as advice goes, you could wait until you get ion engines or just decline the contract. Or build some massive rocket more expensive than fulfilling the contract.

Edited December 3, 2018 by GearsNSuch

[Xurkitree]

Decline it. No hope no hope.

[CommanderSmith]

From memory, contracts like that usually last for years and years. If you plan it right, you can do some other missions in the meantime, grind out some tech, and then launch your satellite contract. By that point, it will hopefully be easier, because you'll have the better antennae and rockets. Don't give up hope so soon! 

 

[The Aziz]

3 hours ago, GearsNSuch said:

As far as advice goes, you could wait until you get ion engines

Well, considering electricity usage of ion engine, not really, unless you want to perform the final burn for an hour, or pack tons of NUKs (and lose more d-v due to their mass). I'd say really lightweight probe, (0.625 size) with one NUK at most, using conventional LF+O mix, on top of 2.5m middle stage with poodle/nerv, all that shouldn't be too hard to carry even into solar orbit. About commnet, two strongest relays around the sun at more or less Jool altitude, launched so one of them is in front of your probe, another behind. And developed connection Web around Kerbin.

Yes, these are all guesses but I can't think of anything more complicated, and this one has the chance to work.

[Kevin Kyle]

Here is the numbers. Im going to think about this some more. I got quite pile of science points I was saving up and a science ship orbiting Minmus just full of science ready to come back home. In the end Im going to have about 3000+ science points to work with. Ya, I was going to do some research into electric power at that range, antenna power at that range and nuke options and see if I got what it takes. There is a Jool transfer coming up in a few days so that might help too.

Apo 375,144,468 km/ Peri 296,232,307 km/ 6.4 deg inclination/ Long. of Asc. 24.1/ and Arg of Peri 150.1 Needs Goo and Multispectral/ Pays 377,000 total. Thank goodness the payload is small.

Might be a while before I complete this one. Im not likely to turn it down unless I feel I cant do it.

Does anyone know where Rich Purnell can be found?

 

OK, at this point, Ive got a ship with 15K+ Dv. Not sure if I have enough electric to sustain it but I think I do. Almost surely cant relay science back on it. May have to make more changes yet. Not sure thats enough Dv either. Still researching and testing. No nukes or Ion's on this ship so far.

Edited December 3, 2018 by Kevin Kyle

[Kevin Kyle]

So, I have done some number crunching and testing. Decided to go with a RTG for power. Need to check that a bit and make sure it will do the job, but I think it will work with some batts for backup. So in the end, to reach out that far from a 75K orbit, you need an additional 6200K+ Dv to make that prbit. Not nearly as bad as I thought it would be and within my capabilities. I need to get the RTG's open to me and maybe another thing or two but I have enough Science points to do that.

The other part of this equation is comms. I was thinking 2 or 3 comm sats out at about Jool with a 100 meg Antenna would maybe be enough. Havent worked that out just yet. But, this looks like a contract I can complete after all. Hopefully this info might help someone else in the future if they are lucky enough to find this post. Im sure this kind of stuff has been posted in the past, hard to find such post when you need them. Not making any money on this one though but the infrastructure will aid future launches so in the end it will pay off. Too bad I cant get a comm sat contract to help pay for that part.

Will update with more info when appropriate.

[TheFlyingKerman]

For comms my solution is a large ground relay station parked at KSC. My station has 72 RA-100 dishes for 2.5T power. That should be enough to connect with your probe.

[Snark]

Moving to Gameplay Questions.

[bewing]

If you are using semi-standard CommNet settings on this game (ie. you didn't click the "no control on signal loss" button like a masochist), then you can still partially control a probe anywhere. Partial control is always good enough to fulfill a sat contract, just so long as you plan ahead. So you probably don't need to do anything special about comms.

Additionally, just because you can't complete a contract with the tech you have today doesn't mean you shouldn't accept the contract. Maybe you need to upgrade Mission Control, so that you have more slots and can keep this contract on the back burner for awhile.

 

[Kevin Kyle]

Masochist, Ya, went that route. lol I have paid dearly for that in the past so I knew what I was getting into.

So I just launched my first comm sat for this mission. It has the C5+ Relay antenna from the CommNet Antennas Extension mod on it. Biggest relay antenna I have. Im sending it out to beyond Jool's orbit at 90 million km's out. It will reach its AP in 3 yrs and 313 days for its final burn. I had 4839 Dv at a 75Km Kerbin orbit. After all burns I will have an extra 1000 Dv. So I could have had a smaller craft but I may push the orbit out farther later. It has 4 Gigantor solar panels and 6200 in batts. I think that will be good enough for anything I might do. Time will tell. I plan on launching 2 more at the appropriate time which I havent figured out yet. I am also using the OPM mod too hence the need to deal with this sat contract so far from home.

 

Next up is to determine when I should launch the sat for this contract. I will give that some thought at work today as well as doing the math for the next comm sat launch. Obviously, this one is going to take a while. :)

I was wondering if I should change the name of this post to something a bit more descriptive of its intentions so others might find this when needed. I should probably consider posting the craft files somewhere as well. They are clearly overbuilt as most of my stuff is. I didnt want to get into the tiny details and all the research to build the most efficient ship I could have built like some of our awesome builders here would do. Always amazed at what can be done with so little.

[Kevin Kyle]

I am struggling to find a way to calculate the orbital period for the comm sats I am launching to support this mission and future missions. I was intending to put 3, maybe 4 comm sats into a 90,000,000 km orbit around Kerbol. That puts them between Jool and Sarnus. My rough calcs say that it is a 17.1 year orbital period and that for 3 sats I need to launch one every 5.7 years. Is that about right? Every 4.27 years if I go with 4 comm sats. Jool has an orbital period of 11.7 years if I read right so 17 years seems about right for that orbit. Never even considered doing a contract of this length before. I think I have 19 years to complete the actual sat contract and I bet it takes half that time just to reach the contract orbit if not longer.

I think I am going to launch the contract sat right now and hope it all works out.

Oh and where might I find a good collection of formula's for such things......KSP Wiki? Im sure Ive seen a page with such things in the past.

[Kevin Kyle]

So I have decided to push the comm sat's orbit out to past Sarnus. Still have a fuel reserve after doing that. Only question is can I generate enough electricity that far out.

I launched the Sat for the contract. I think I am all good and reaching the orbit is easy enough. So the short of it is yes, you can do sat contracts out this far. The long of it is, it is going to be a really long time before this one gets there.

So, in conclusion, it isnt really worth doing in the long run except that the infrastructure needed for this contract will take care of most communication needs long into the future. The new comm sat orbit will take 9 yrs 219 days to reach its orbit and do a circularize burn to complete its journey. Obviously, the sat for the contract will be much longer reaching its orbit. Im certainly going to lose megabucks doing this project but other contracts keep the money flowing. Will I play this career out far enough to see this complete or fail? That is a good question. The way I play means that it night be a long time before I reach that point. In the end, I may have to accel time enough to get there just to find out if it all works as planned.

The vast majority or players will likely never benefit from a contract like this one. So, if your not a long term player, just skip these contracts and move on. Will be interesting to see if this one actually works though and I hope to take this one top completion. Time will tell.