Why isn't my comms network working!?

[MCCreeper8890]

Yesterday, I was launching an orbital scanner around the Mun. The first time I tried, I lost control halfway through the mission. I then figured out I needed a comms network. I launched two satellites, and they're not communicating with eachother.

The satellites are named "CS-P3-B1-001" and "CS-P3-B1-002" in case that matters. That means Communications Satellite, Planet 3 (Kerbin), Band 1 (1.5Mm), ID 002 (Second launched) Each satellite has 4 Communotron 16-S antennae, and 1 Communotron 88-88 antenna.

I haven't done much with CommNet and KerbNet before, and am a complete noob to this sort of thing. What could I do to fix this?

[Snark]

Moving to Gameplay Questions.

28 minutes ago, MCCreeper8890 said:

I haven't done much with CommNet and KerbNet before, and am a complete noob to this sort of thing. What could I do to fix this?

The issue is that none of your antennas are relay antennas. They're all "direct" antennas.

That means that they're able to talk directly to KSC (or other Kerbin ground stations,  if you've got them turned on), but not to each other.

If you want a satellite to be usable as a relay (i.e. so that other craft can talk to KSC through it), then you need to have a relay antenna,  such as the HG-5, RA-2, RA-15, or RA-100.

(You can tell whether an antenna is relay capable by looking at the part description in the VAB.)

Incidentally,  putting multiple Communotron 16S antennas on a craft that already has an 88-88 on it is pretty much pointless-- the 88-88 is literally 200,000 times more powerful than a 16S (and besides, the 16S doesn't stack). So adding 16S antennas to a craft with an 88-88 would be like trying to make your Lamborghini go faster by adding a hamster running in a wheel. It's simply not even in the same league.   Did you have a particular reason for wanting to use that antenna configuration?

[RealKerbal3x]

 

@MCCreeper8890

Your problem is: you don’t have any  relay antennas aboard. You do have antennas, but they’re only for transmitting science experiments. For your relays to work, they’ll need an RA-2, RA-15 or RA-100 relay antenna.

I wish you good luck in your communications exploits!

Edit: Ninja’d by @Snark 

Edited December 26, 2018 by RealKerbal3x

[Epicdreamer]

You could state that a direct antenna is a end-of-line antenna, and a relay can redirect a signal to another antenna. 

You can use both types in any vehicle, but only the relays can be used to construct a comms network.

And mind that you will need long(er) range antennas (any) to control robotic vehicles once you get farther away from Kerbin.

Good luck building those networks! 

[swjr-swis]

6 hours ago, Snark said:

would be like trying to make your Lamborghini go faster by adding a hamster running in a wheel.

Anything that can be done with horses can be done with hamsters. It's all a matter of how many. (hint: it's a joke. Listen to Snark, he got it right.)

Having flashbacks now to my nephew's Technics Lego contraption powered by a literal hamster wheel because the battery motor had been misplaced...

(No hamsters were harmed in the operation of said contraption.)

(The hamster may have been miffed with certain larger mammals though.)

(Sorry hamster. I still laughed though. Sorry.)

Edited December 27, 2018 by swjr-swis
Warning: humor may be involved

[Snark]

1 hour ago, swjr-swis said:

Anything that can be done with horses can be done with hamsters. It's all a matter of how many.

 

Sure. That's why I specified how many. I said "a hamster", singular. So the statement stands.

I take the trouble to respond seriously, here, despite what I assume you meant primarily in jest (and somewhat off-topic?), because the math here really is relevant to the OP's question.

A Communotron 88-88 is literally 200,000 times more powerful than the weakest antennas like the Communotron-16 or Communotron-16S.  If you have a job that needs an 88-88, you'd literally have to put hundreds of thousands of the dinky antennas on a craft to give comparable transmission power. (And that's assuming you're using the Communotron-16, which stacks linearly-- unlike the 16S, which the OP is using,  and which doesn't stack at all.) No matter how beefy your computer is,  somehow I doubt KSP would be able to handle a ship with hundreds of thousands of parts on it, even if one were inclined to try to build such a thing.

So in practice... no, you can't do that. Trying to stack much-lower-tier antennas in order to get needed power is thoroughly impractical (like trying to run a Lamborghini on hamster power alone). Stacking antennas is fine if you only need 2x the power, or 4x, or even 8x... but not if you need 100x or more. And to get any benefit from stacking,  you'd need to use a stackable antenna,  which the OP isn't (he's got the 16S).

So I respond at length and in earnest because I want to make sure the OP takes the correct message away from this conversation.   The humor's appreciated (and I would have loved to see a video of your hamster-Lego contraption!), but please remember that it's really easy to confuse people if they may not be familiar enough with the relevant game mechanics to be able to sort out the jokes from the serious intent.

[swjr-swis]

3 hours ago, Snark said:

please remember that it's really easy to confuse people if they may not be familiar enough with the relevant game mechanics to be able to sort out the jokes from the serious intent.

I do remember. This is why I first voted up your answer so it will be clearly marked as a valid response to the question, before I even hit Reply. And my reply was entirely in jest since I felt you had answered the question quite comprehensively and clearly... there wasn't anything to add.

Point taken though; I additionally edited my reply to more explicitly state the useless frivolity of my interjection and point the reader where to seek applicable wisdom.

[MCCreeper8890]

12 hours ago, Snark said:

Moving to Gameplay Questions.

The issue is that none of your antennas are relay antennas. They're all "direct" antennas.

That means that they're able to talk directly to KSC (or other Kerbin ground stations,  if you've got them turned on), but not to each other.

If you want a satellite to be usable as a relay (i.e. so that other craft can talk to KSC through it), then you need to have a relay antenna,  such as the HG-5, RA-2, RA-15, or RA-100.

(You can tell whether an antenna is relay capable by looking at the part description in the VAB.)

Incidentally,  putting multiple Communotron 16S antennas on a craft that already has an 88-88 on it is pretty much pointless-- the 88-88 is literally 200,000 times more powerful than a 16S (and besides, the 16S doesn't stack). So adding 16S antennas to a craft with an 88-88 would be like trying to make your Lamborghini go faster by adding a hamster running in a wheel. It's simply not even in the same league.   Did you have a particular reason for wanting to use that antenna configuration?

The funny part is, one of my prototypes had an 88-88 and 2 HG-5s. But, I didn't think that would look good in orbit. Think about it; a T-posing satellite 5 million feet above Kerbin, with an upside-down umbrella. And, in case you're wondering (probably not), my profile picture is a GPS satellite I also put in orbit. 500km Kerbin orbit, 55.0 degree inclination (yes I was very precise), there's gonna be 6 bands of 4 each, identical periods & inclination and spaced enough to avoid Kessler Syndrome. The particular sat I took the screenshot of was named PS-P3-11N (Positioning Satellite, Planet 3 - Kerbin, Band 1, Sat 1, Not tuned)

[MCCreeper8890]

A new design for the satellite:

1). Place a Probodobodyne OKTO-2
2). Add a Z-200 battery pack beneath it.
3). Set up a chemical rocket with 2 Oscar-B fuel tanks and a Spark engine.
4). Put a Communotron 88-88 antenna on top, and 2 Communotron HG-5 antennae on the probe core.
5). Attach this to an LKO launcher.

It will be called the CA-CS2+L (Creeper Aerospace, for a lack of a better name, Communications satellite, Mark II, includes launcher)
It's too late to launch it now, so I'll get to work tomorrow.

[Snark]

2 hours ago, MCCreeper8890 said:

 spaced enough to avoid Kessler Syndrome

Just to make sure you're aware, Kessler syndrome isn't really a thing in KSP; the game's mechanics don't allow it. (If you're just RPing and don't mean actual Kessler syndrome, then never mind.)

16 minutes ago, MCCreeper8890 said:

 

Put a Communotron 88-88 antenna on top, and 2 Communotron HG-5 antennae on the probe core.

That should certainly work.

Out of curiosity, though, is the 88-88 just for looks, or did you have some practical reason for it? Because including it won't really serve any useful purpose, at least not in the scenario you describe.

A more practical design would leave off the 88-88 (it's just not useful for a comsat), and instead put on a few extra HG-5s (to boost the relay range).

[MCCreeper8890]

On 12/27/2018 at 3:21 AM, Snark said:

Out of curiosity, though, is the 88-88 just for looks, or did you have some practical reason for it? Because including it won't really serve any useful purpose, at least not in the scenario you describe.

The 88-88 is just for looks, but it doesn't need to be as big. The new mod Restock and Restock+ allow a smaller version of this antenna, perfect for CubeSats.