Zmeya Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 56 minutes ago, Gameslinx said: Beyond Home 1.5.0 One of the largest updates for Beyond Home involves adding support for Parallax, a shader coded from the ground up for planet surfaces. Here are the patch notes: You MUST now install Parallax for Beyond Home 1.5.0 to work Parallax: https://github.com/Gameslinx/Tessellation/releases Update to 1.10 Moved from the Squad terrain shader to Parallax Almost all bodies have Parallax configs You no longer fall through the terrain on Fury in certain conditions Fixed installation checker Fixed a typo in Rhode.cfg where the Great Basin biome had an invalid colour Does this update work in 1.9.1 or is it 1.10 only? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gameslinx Posted September 24, 2020 Author Share Posted September 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, Zmeya said: Does this update work in 1.9.1 or is it 1.10 only? Both versions should work, but I recommend 1.10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neesh Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 Is the new Parallax released last night compatible with 1.8.1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gameslinx Posted September 24, 2020 Author Share Posted September 24, 2020 14 minutes ago, Neesh said: Is the new Parallax released last night compatible with 1.8.1? No, 1.9 and above Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebulagoodies Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 (edited) my kerbals are either sinking or floating above the terrain. im playing on 1.9. I have paralax installed. Edited September 24, 2020 by Nebulagoodies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gameslinx Posted September 24, 2020 Author Share Posted September 24, 2020 2 hours ago, Nebulagoodies said: my kerbals are either sinking or floating above the terrain. im playing on 1.9. I have paralax installed. Parallax is purely visual. It has no impact on the terrain collider, which will still be flat. This is both to massively save on performance and so that planet surfaces can still be landed on easily (otherwise good luck landing a plane on all the rocks!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkatsukiMana Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 (edited) Sorry to disturb...but I encountered some strange bugs today. I'll describe it below. I'm playing Beyond Home v1.4.2 on KSP v1.8.1, with no DLCs but lots of mods. I love this planetary mod very much. Until yesterday everything performed well, but today I found that I can't enter mapview by pressing 'M' button when I started game. I do exactly nothing to my game today, so this error appeared spontaneously. I tried to change keyboard settings and reinstall beyond home, but neither works. I also suspected other mods in my modlist, but by experiment, I found same modlist can run in stock game without this error, but after switching to beyond home the error appears. So I guess some mods may be incompatible with Beyond Home? This is my KSP.log screenshot when the error appears, always with 'KeyNotFoundException': LOG 00:39:06.198] [ApplicationLauncher] OnSceneLoadedGUIReady: scene TRACKSTATION ShouldBeVisible() True ShouldBeOnTop() False iIsPositionedAtTop False [LOG 00:39:06.201] ScaleModList: listSize 123 maxListSize 1630 [LOG 00:39:06.201] ScaleModList: listSize 164 maxListSize 1630 [LOG 00:39:06.201] ScaleModList: listSize 164 maxListSize 1630 [LOG 00:39:06.251] ScaleModList: listSize 205 maxListSize 1630 [LOG 00:39:06.285] ScaleModList: listSize 246 maxListSize 1630 [LOG 00:39:06.339] ScaleModList: listSize 287 maxListSize 1630 [LOG 00:39:06.366] ScaleModList: listSize 328 maxListSize 1630 [LOG 00:39:06.367] ScaleModList: listSize 369 maxListSize 1630 [LOG 00:39:06.367] ScaleModList: listSize 328 maxListSize 1630 [LOG 00:39:06.367] [KnowledgeBase] OnAppLauncherReady 132482 [LOG 00:39:06.376] ScaleModList: listSize 369 maxListSize 1630 [LOG 00:39:06.377] ScaleModList: listSize 328 maxListSize 1630 [LOG 00:39:06.377] ScaleModList: listSize 369 maxListSize 1630 [LOG 00:39:06.378] ScaleModList: listSize 328 maxListSize 1630 [LOG 00:39:06.378] [CM] Adding main icon to toolbar [LOG 00:39:06.378] ScaleModList: listSize 369 maxListSize 1630 [LOG 00:39:06.379] ScaleModList: listSize 328 maxListSize 1630 [LOG 00:39:06.379] [Kopernicus]: StarLightSwitcher: Set active star => Sun [EXC 00:39:06.451] KeyNotFoundException: The given key was not present in the dictionary. System.Collections.Generic.Dictionary`2[TKey,TValue].get_Item (TKey key) (at <ad04dee02e7e4a85a1299c7ee81c79f6>:0) MapViewFiltering.CountVessels () (at <9d71e4043e394d78a6cf9193ad011698>:0) MapViewFiltering.RefreshCounts () (at <9d71e4043e394d78a6cf9193ad011698>:0) MapViewFiltering+<RefreshInOneFrame>d__18.MoveNext () (at <9d71e4043e394d78a6cf9193ad011698>:0) UnityEngine.SetupCoroutine.InvokeMoveNext (System.Collections.IEnumerator enumerator, System.IntPtr returnValueAddress) (at <5aeafee3fea24f37abd1315553f2cfa6>:0) UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:LogException(Exception, Object) ModuleManager.UnityLogHandle.InterceptLogHandler:LogException(Exception, Object) UnityEngine.Debug:CallOverridenDebugHandler(Exception, Object) [LOG 00:39:07.180] [OD] --> OnDemandStorage.EnableBodyCBMaps loading Hydron [LOG 00:39:07.180] [OD] --> OnDemandStorage.EnableBodyCBMaps loading Hydrus [LOG 00:39:07.181] [OD] --> OnDemandStorage.EnableBodyCBMaps loading Anger [LOG 00:39:07.181] [OD] --> OnDemandStorage.EnableBodyCBMaps loading Fury [LOG 00:39:07.182] [PlanetariumCamera]: Focus: Kerbin [EXC 00:39:07.710] KeyNotFoundException: The given key was not present in the dictionary. System.Collections.Generic.Dictionary`2[TKey,TValue].get_Item (TKey key) (at <ad04dee02e7e4a85a1299c7ee81c79f6>:0) MapViewFiltering.CountVessels () (at <9d71e4043e394d78a6cf9193ad011698>:0) MapViewFiltering.RefreshCounts () (at <9d71e4043e394d78a6cf9193ad011698>:0) MapView+<Start>d__79.MoveNext () (at <9d71e4043e394d78a6cf9193ad011698>:0) UnityEngine.SetupCoroutine.InvokeMoveNext (System.Collections.IEnumerator enumerator, System.IntPtr returnValueAddress) (at <5aeafee3fea24f37abd1315553f2cfa6>:0) UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:LogException(Exception, Object) ModuleManager.UnityLogHandle.InterceptLogHandler:LogException(Exception, Object) UnityEngine.Debug:CallOverridenDebugHandler(Exception, Object) Here list my mods: Could you please help me to find out what's wrong with my game? Thank you very much!! Edited September 24, 2020 by AkatsukiMana grammar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yep That's a Cat Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 (edited) I downloaded this mod today, with all the required mods, and all the terrain around my ships disappears, leaving a big black square. Could you try and help me? Thanks. Edit: here is a picture Edited September 24, 2020 by Yep That's a Cat added screenshot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geonovast Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 (edited) I am also getting the black squares. They seem to follow me whereever I go, however they disappear when I am about 1km above the ground. Primarily have been trying in KSP 1.9.1, but I get the same result in 1.10.1. I get it in Linux and in Windows. GoG and Steam versions of the game. Tried on two different computers. i7-7700K/64GB DDR4/GTX 1070Ti and Ryzen 7-2700/32GB DDR4/GTX 1070Ti. Same result in every combination. Terrain scatters enable and turned up to 100%. I have tried it with and without Parallax, with and without EVE/Scatterer, with and without Sigma. For 1.9.1, using Kopernicus 1.9.1-1 from here. For 1.10.1, using Kopernicus BE 1101 Release 30 from here. Using Beyond Home version 1.5.1 (BTW, in case nobody else has reported it, either the 1.5.1 download on github is wrong or the version file is wrong, as it says 1.4.0.) Log File: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dNwuv0VfEHXqHeG6-_VuhYzlGw7I8iQF/view?usp=sharing Edit: I tried aga in, fresh install of 1.10.1 with just Kopernicus, Beyond Home, and Parallax. I get this on startup: Terrain Quality is on Ultra. Beyond Home, Kopernicus, and Modular Flight Integrator are all installed. It's still working to some degree since the game loads and I'm able to launch vessels, just with those black boxes. Edited September 24, 2020 by Geonovast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephm Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 (edited) hi ! Félicitation it's very impressive, i don't play with beyond, but tested on a fresh install only scatterer and eve and Parallax i have this trouble on runway look like a mirror !! and the shader on ground have this effect on the object z position . Wheel seem under the ground ! same thing for Kerbal Tested in 4Kuhd (i play in 4k) , i have sometime 12fps , or 35 fps that depend (type of planet) but something affect the fps, put the light on kill FPS 30~35 to 12~15 fps it's a great feature shaders look amazing ! log : log beyond+parallax Edited September 24, 2020 by stephm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gameslinx Posted September 24, 2020 Author Share Posted September 24, 2020 2 hours ago, Yep That's a Cat said: I downloaded this mod today, with all the required mods, and all the terrain around my ships disappears, leaving a big black square. Could you try and help me? Thanks. 2 hours ago, Geonovast said: I am also getting the black squares. They seem to follow me whereever I go, however they disappear when I am about 1km above the ground. These black squares are caused by Parallax not loading up. Can both of you upload your KSP.log and share the link to it here? I can't help you without it! 2 hours ago, stephm said: i have this trouble on runway look like a mirror !! This is out of my control - this is an issue with Kopernicus. I am currently awaiting a fix, but I will let you all know when it's patched. Keep an eye on the Bleeding Edge forum! 2 hours ago, stephm said: Tested in 4Kuhd (i play in 4k) , i have sometime 12fps , or 35 fps Your system specs are better than mine - You should be getting 60fps at 4k with that system. Try turning down AntiAliasing in game or turning off the reflections in the graphics settings. There is also a config located in the Parallax/Config folder called "ParallaxGlobal.cfg". You can change some settings in there and lower the quality of the shader if you need to! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geonovast Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 3 minutes ago, Gameslinx said: Can both of you upload your KSP.log and share the link to it here? I can't help you without it! There's one wedged between the screenies, but here's the log from the most recent 1.10.1 install. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UdQl9SuomiRY06J6FJ6TSccNLESKQPOk/view?usp=sharing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gameslinx Posted September 24, 2020 Author Share Posted September 24, 2020 3 minutes ago, Geonovast said: There's one wedged between the screenies, but here's the log from the most recent 1.10.1 install. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UdQl9SuomiRY06J6FJ6TSccNLESKQPOk/view?usp=sharing I just had a look - It seems as the shader loader can't find the shader. It's looking for a file "Parallax-linux.unity3d" in this path: /GOG Games/KSP 1.10.1/game/KSP_Data/../GameData/Parallax/Shaders/Parallax But the actual path appears to be /GOG Games/KSP 1.10.1/game/GameData/Parallax/Shaders/Parallax Since I don't currently have time to upload a fix, you could try moving the shader files (Parallax-windows / Parallax-linux / Parallax.macosx) to the path it's trying to open? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geonovast Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 /GOG Games/KSP 1.10.1/game/KSP_Data/../GameData/Parallax/Shaders/Parallax Isn't a valid directory. The ".." just refers to the parent directory of KSP_Data. If I try to navigate to that directory, I just end up in : /GOG Games/KSP 1.10.1/game/GameData/Parallax/Shaders/Parallax Anyway. Could those "Not installed" messages be from this line? [LOG 15:26:26.364] [BICH] GameData directory is /home/correy/GOG Games/KSP 1.10.1/gGameData/ Looks like it stuck an extra 'g' in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gameslinx Posted September 24, 2020 Author Share Posted September 24, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Geonovast said: /GOG Games/KSP 1.10.1/game/KSP_Data/../GameData/Parallax/Shaders/Parallax Isn't a valid directory. The ".." just refers to the parent directory of KSP_Data. If I try to navigate to that directory, I just end up in : /GOG Games/KSP 1.10.1/game/GameData/Parallax/Shaders/Parallax Anyway. Could those "Not installed" messages be from this line? [LOG 15:26:26.364] [BICH] GameData directory is /home/correy/GOG Games/KSP 1.10.1/gGameData/ Looks like it stuck an extra 'g' in there. That would cause the 'not installed' messages (of which I shall now patch), but that's alright because those warnings use a different approach to detect the file path to Parallax (and those warnings are just warnings - if you've installed Beyond Home correctly, which you have, it'll work normally) It just appears as if the shader loader I coded for Parallax can't locate the shader file, which is causing it to break in-game Edit: Found the issue. It's in this conditional statement on this line: https://github.com/Gameslinx/Tessellation/blob/930589cd72a696fe48909ee888e259ff9b350983/Loader/ParallaxSource.cs#L32 I'll get a patch for it out in around 8 hours. Alternatively, if you have the know-how, you can recompile it yourself with the changes. Sorry about that! I must have been tired when I wrote that Edited September 24, 2020 by Gameslinx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geonovast Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 32 minutes ago, Gameslinx said: I'll get a patch for it out in around 8 hours. Alternatively, if you have the know-how, you can recompile it yourself with the changes. Sorry about that! I must have been tired when I wrote that I could probably get it figured out, but I guarantee I'd break something else in the process. I'm just glad I could help. I'll wait for the patch. Take your time! I thought I had a workaround by copying the Parallax-linux.unity3d file and renaming it to just Parallax since the statement above seemed to be tripping up appending the rest of the filename, so it would just be looking for a file called Parallax. Spoiler: It didn't work. Spoiler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopixl Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 (edited) With Parallax released, I decided to take a break from the stock system. It looks amazing with KS3P, ReStock, EVE, Scatterer, Parallax (of course) etc. I love it. Great job on this @Gameslinx! Edited September 25, 2020 by lopixl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkatsukiMana Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 8 hours ago, AkatsukiMana said: Sorry to disturb...but I encountered some strange bugs today. I'll describe it below. I'm playing Beyond Home v1.4.2 on KSP v1.8.1, with no DLCs but lots of mods. I love this planetary mod very much. Until yesterday everything performed well, but today I found that I can't enter mapview by pressing 'M' button when I started game. I do exactly nothing to my game today, so this error appeared spontaneously. I tried to change keyboard settings and reinstall beyond home, but neither works. I also suspected other mods in my modlist, but by experiment, I found same modlist can run in stock game without this error, but after switching to beyond home the error appears. So I guess some mods may be incompatible with Beyond Home? This is my KSP.log screenshot when the error appears, always with 'KeyNotFoundException': LOG 00:39:06.198] [ApplicationLauncher] OnSceneLoadedGUIReady: scene TRACKSTATION ShouldBeVisible() True ShouldBeOnTop() False iIsPositionedAtTop False [LOG 00:39:06.201] ScaleModList: listSize 123 maxListSize 1630 [LOG 00:39:06.201] ScaleModList: listSize 164 maxListSize 1630 [LOG 00:39:06.201] ScaleModList: listSize 164 maxListSize 1630 [LOG 00:39:06.251] ScaleModList: listSize 205 maxListSize 1630 [LOG 00:39:06.285] ScaleModList: listSize 246 maxListSize 1630 [LOG 00:39:06.339] ScaleModList: listSize 287 maxListSize 1630 [LOG 00:39:06.366] ScaleModList: listSize 328 maxListSize 1630 [LOG 00:39:06.367] ScaleModList: listSize 369 maxListSize 1630 [LOG 00:39:06.367] ScaleModList: listSize 328 maxListSize 1630 [LOG 00:39:06.367] [KnowledgeBase] OnAppLauncherReady 132482 [LOG 00:39:06.376] ScaleModList: listSize 369 maxListSize 1630 [LOG 00:39:06.377] ScaleModList: listSize 328 maxListSize 1630 [LOG 00:39:06.377] ScaleModList: listSize 369 maxListSize 1630 [LOG 00:39:06.378] ScaleModList: listSize 328 maxListSize 1630 [LOG 00:39:06.378] [CM] Adding main icon to toolbar [LOG 00:39:06.378] ScaleModList: listSize 369 maxListSize 1630 [LOG 00:39:06.379] ScaleModList: listSize 328 maxListSize 1630 [LOG 00:39:06.379] [Kopernicus]: StarLightSwitcher: Set active star => Sun [EXC 00:39:06.451] KeyNotFoundException: The given key was not present in the dictionary. System.Collections.Generic.Dictionary`2[TKey,TValue].get_Item (TKey key) (at <ad04dee02e7e4a85a1299c7ee81c79f6>:0) MapViewFiltering.CountVessels () (at <9d71e4043e394d78a6cf9193ad011698>:0) MapViewFiltering.RefreshCounts () (at <9d71e4043e394d78a6cf9193ad011698>:0) MapViewFiltering+<RefreshInOneFrame>d__18.MoveNext () (at <9d71e4043e394d78a6cf9193ad011698>:0) UnityEngine.SetupCoroutine.InvokeMoveNext (System.Collections.IEnumerator enumerator, System.IntPtr returnValueAddress) (at <5aeafee3fea24f37abd1315553f2cfa6>:0) UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:LogException(Exception, Object) ModuleManager.UnityLogHandle.InterceptLogHandler:LogException(Exception, Object) UnityEngine.Debug:CallOverridenDebugHandler(Exception, Object) [LOG 00:39:07.180] [OD] --> OnDemandStorage.EnableBodyCBMaps loading Hydron [LOG 00:39:07.180] [OD] --> OnDemandStorage.EnableBodyCBMaps loading Hydrus [LOG 00:39:07.181] [OD] --> OnDemandStorage.EnableBodyCBMaps loading Anger [LOG 00:39:07.181] [OD] --> OnDemandStorage.EnableBodyCBMaps loading Fury [LOG 00:39:07.182] [PlanetariumCamera]: Focus: Kerbin [EXC 00:39:07.710] KeyNotFoundException: The given key was not present in the dictionary. System.Collections.Generic.Dictionary`2[TKey,TValue].get_Item (TKey key) (at <ad04dee02e7e4a85a1299c7ee81c79f6>:0) MapViewFiltering.CountVessels () (at <9d71e4043e394d78a6cf9193ad011698>:0) MapViewFiltering.RefreshCounts () (at <9d71e4043e394d78a6cf9193ad011698>:0) MapView+<Start>d__79.MoveNext () (at <9d71e4043e394d78a6cf9193ad011698>:0) UnityEngine.SetupCoroutine.InvokeMoveNext (System.Collections.IEnumerator enumerator, System.IntPtr returnValueAddress) (at <5aeafee3fea24f37abd1315553f2cfa6>:0) UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:LogException(Exception, Object) ModuleManager.UnityLogHandle.InterceptLogHandler:LogException(Exception, Object) UnityEngine.Debug:CallOverridenDebugHandler(Exception, Object) Here list my mods: Could you please help me to find out what's wrong with my game? Thank you very much!! I deleted BDB and it seems OK now...but I lose my saved game don't know how it works but still thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R-T-B Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 (edited) For those with the reflective runway issue, I have made a slight modification to the asphalt textures (removing their mipmaps) which makes the runways not reflective. You can do the same with an application like paint.net (open and resave them as a DXT5 dds without mipmaps, textures \BeyondHome\PluginData\_scatter_asphalt.dds and BeyondHome\Terrain\PluginData\Dry00.dds) Unfortunately, I can't distribute this change with Linx's license, but I have contacted him informing him of the fix and I expect it will be fixed shortly. Proof: Also, the latest Kopernicus Bleeding edge has some important fixes for properly supporting Parallax with Ultra shader disabled (we don't need to run both, afterall). You may want to download it. It will be pushed to stable 1.9.1 soon. Parallax itself will need to update to support these changes, though. Edited September 25, 2020 by R-T-B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateDaBeast Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 (edited) Kopernicus updated in the last hour and it appears to have messed with Beyond Home because for me now it just loads stock KSP EDIT: I tried it with the Kopernicus release right before the latest update and it works fine so its definitely gotta be something with the new release. Also does anyone get lower FPS when near say Ash or Lua, but other planets FPS drop isn't as bad. Edited September 25, 2020 by NateDaBeast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R-T-B Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, NateDaBeast said: Kopernicus updated in the last hour and it appears to have messed with Beyond Home because for me now it just loads stock KSP EDIT: I tried it with the Kopernicus release right before the latest update and it works fine so its definitely gotta be something with the new release. Also does anyone get lower FPS when near say Ash or Lua, but other planets FPS drop isn't as bad. Can you tell me what version/branch you are using? KSP version as well, of course. Also make sure you completely replace the Kopernicus folder each time. Files like config files often change. Edited September 25, 2020 by R-T-B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gameslinx Posted September 25, 2020 Author Share Posted September 25, 2020 1 hour ago, NateDaBeast said: Kopernicus updated in the last hour and it appears to have messed with Beyond Home because for me now it just loads stock KSP EDIT: I tried it with the Kopernicus release right before the latest update and it works fine so its definitely gotta be something with the new release. Also does anyone get lower FPS when near say Ash or Lua, but other planets FPS drop isn't as bad. The latest Kopernicus works fine for us. Make sure you're on Bleeding Edge: https://github.com/R-T-B/kopernicus/releases Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R-T-B Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Gameslinx said: The latest Kopernicus works fine for us. Make sure you're on Bleeding Edge: https://github.com/R-T-B/kopernicus/releases Stable SHOULD work fine too. If it doesn't, let me know please. EDIT: It doesn't. I'm pushing a fix for a typo to CKAN Now. Edited September 25, 2020 by R-T-B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gameslinx Posted September 25, 2020 Author Share Posted September 25, 2020 8 hours ago, Geonovast said: I could probably get it figured out, but I guarantee I'd break something else in the process. I'm just glad I could help. I'll wait for the patch. Take your time! I thought I had a workaround by copying the Parallax-linux.unity3d file and renaming it to just Parallax since the statement above seemed to be tripping up appending the rest of the filename, so it would just be looking for a file called Parallax. Spoiler: It didn't work. Reveal hidden contents I just uploaded an update to Parallax https://github.com/Gameslinx/Tessellation/releases/tag/1.0.1 Hopefully this works Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateDaBeast Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 7 minutes ago, Gameslinx said: The latest Kopernicus works fine for us. Make sure you're on Bleeding Edge: https://github.com/R-T-B/kopernicus/releases Ah, I believe the issue is I downloaded from the kopernicus link on the front page of this mod instead of bleeding edge. Could've sworn I didn't though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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