REMEMBER: A KSP Collaborative Game based on Forgotten Space Program (modpack finalized (mostly))

[Vagrant203]

1 hour ago, LittleBitMore said:

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend you.

I'm not sure "offended" is entirely accurate but I do appreciate the apology.

[LittleBitMore]

Just now, Vagrant203 said:

I'm not sure "offended" is entirely accurate but I do appreciate the apology.

Sorry, I'm just a mess today. I can't word my sentences correctly. The thing is I got a pitiful amount of homework done due to an argument with some friends at school, and I now no longer have any friends at my school. Which was an emotional event since they were my friends for some time. That's the TL;DR.

[Vagrant203]

Just now, LittleBitMore said:

...an argument with some friends at school, and I now no longer have any friends at my school. 

They don't sound like very good friends. Which is on them, not you. Small comfort, perhaps, but I suspect you did what you felt was right and tried to understand.

[LittleBitMore]

1 minute ago, Vagrant203 said:

They don't sound like very good friends. Which is on them, not you. Small comfort, perhaps, but I suspect you did what you felt was right and tried to understand.

Got it in one shot.

Anyhoo, we shouldn't let this get too far off topic of Remember.

[greenTurtle1134]

4 hours ago, LittleBitMore said:

That way instead of 99% of all Kerbals being Jeb, we could have 0 Jebs

Not gonna lie - the idea of an interplanetary flotilla crewed entirely by Jebs is kind of appealing.

4 hours ago, LittleBitMore said:

Speaking of mods, here's a list of mods I think would be great for this:

I'm keeping the modlist slim, because as @Geschosskopf pointed out, every parts mod we add is another possible thing that keeps us from version updating. My pack right now can be summarized as "everything that @Nertea has, plus some other stuff". MechJeb, Restock+, Near Future Solar, KCT, KAS, KIS, and SCANsat are already on the list and you can add whatever visual mods you want into your own install - they won't affect the FLIGHTSTATE

4 hours ago, Vagrant203 said:

Also, if you include DLC content, that immediately excludes me from playing. Rude.

We're going to be playing no-DLC for exactly this reason.

3 hours ago, LittleBitMore said:

As for science, the science should either (hopefully, ideally) be saved as is, or (probable and safer) deleted altogether.

Yeah, I think storing science as-is will work, will have to test though...

2 hours ago, Cydonian Monk said:

I experimented with giving them an "unowned" status, similar to rescue contracts, but eventually decided it was too much hassle for what I was doing. And I think the astronaut management process has changed considerably since.

If we mark them as rescues we won't be able to switch to them without further save editing, which poses a concern if for example someone's on a collision course with Eve. It's a tough problem.

[LittleBitMore]

13 minutes ago, greenTurtle1134 said:

I'm keeping the modlist slim, because as @Geschosskopf pointed out, every parts mod we add is another possible thing that keeps us from version updating.

Alrighto, good logic. But it would be heavenly if Hullcam was added.

And one other question: what's keeping us from picking a version and sticking to it? I mean, obviously newer versions are better, but older versions are generally okay. It would be easy to stick to one version until our modlist, however complicated it may be, is fully supported by the next update.

Easy, but probably just lazy too.

13 minutes ago, greenTurtle1134 said:

MechJeb, Restock+, Near Future Solar, KCT, KAS, KIS, and SCANsat are already on the list and you can add whatever visual mods you want into your own install - they won't affect the FLIGHTSTATE

Alright. I don't plan on using visual mods (okay, maybe EVE, but that's it), because they typically just add extra performance loss on bulky saves that really don't need performance losses.

13 minutes ago, greenTurtle1134 said:

We're going to be playing no-DLC for exactly this reason.

I've not looked into the topic well enough, so I'm going to ask you to see if I don't have to search around. Do you have a way to disable the DLC? I think just uninstalling them with Steam would work, but I don't really know how Steam works. I just use Steam to beta-ify back to Kopernicus-compatible versions.

13 minutes ago, greenTurtle1134 said:

If we mark them as rescues we won't be able to switch to them without further save editing, which poses a concern if for example someone's on a collision course with Eve. It's a tough problem.

If only this was a community of creative and powerful modders-- oh wait...

We could politely ask a modder to create a mod that turns craft into rescue mode, with some sort of information panel that has a "Unrescue-ify this craft" button for each craft. The buttons could be directly linked to the save file, and each button push edits the save file.

I don't know how hard this will be, since my KSP modding skills are less than my Minecraft modding skills (which are horrible. I once managed to replace the oak planks texture with a Mars picture. That's literally it.), and so i can't really judge the feasibility of this task.

But, to the untrained eye of me, it seems simple enough. Buttons directly connected to every craft's save file location can routinely rescue-ify and unrescue-ify those craft. It should be just commanding these buttons to edit the save file. Unless I don't know what I'm talking about, which is entirely possible.

If we are to have a modder create the Remember Assembly Manager (named that way to confuse the heck out of people who talk about RAM), who should it be?

Edited February 27, 2020 by LittleBitMore
typo

[Vagrant203]

Hullcam is more or less a visual mod, right? As in different points of view. Unless there's some equipment you have to install, but you could easily uninstall it with KIS, I think.

As for ongoing missions, maybe they should undergo an abort to stable orbit before the save file is passed on and they are filed into rescue contracts?

Another consideration is companion probecraft. Although I suppose those could simply be docked up and ship's stocks filled as though active mining had taken place in the interim, where applicable.

[LittleBitMore]

1 minute ago, Vagrant203 said:

Hullcam is more or less a visual mod, right? As in different points of view. Unless there's some equipment you have to install, but you could easily uninstall it with KIS, I think.

It contains camera parts to throw onto the hull in strategic places. They're removable, sure, but I'm 90% sure the game will freak because it doesn't know what part you're trying to take off with KIS/KAS.

1 minute ago, Vagrant203 said:

As for ongoing missions, maybe they should undergo an abort to stable orbit before the save file is passed on and they are filed into rescue contracts?

Interesting idea. This would increase safety and accessibility at the cost of mission realism.

3 minutes ago, Vagrant203 said:

Another consideration is companion probecraft. Although I suppose those could simply be docked up and ship's stocks filled as though active mining had taken place in the interim, where applicable.

I don't know exactly what you're talking about in this line, could you clarify a little?

[Vagrant203]

12 hours ago, LittleBitMore said:

I don't know exactly what you're talking about in this line, could you clarify a little?

I've been developing a series of ships intended to support itself by using an ISRU to refuel. Snacks also allows you to turn ore into meals through the science lab, and recycle "soil" back into meals at a set rate, forty percent by default.

Ship sits in orbit and sends a probe miner down to grab ore and return. Obviously moons and other low or null grav bodies are preferable. Heh, grab a big enough roid and you're set for several Cycles maybe.

Edited February 27, 2020 by Vagrant203
fixed "null grab"

[LittleBitMore]

Just now, Vagrant203 said:

I've been developing a series of ships intended to support itself by using an ISRU to refuel. Snacks also allows you to turn ore into meals through the science lab, and recycle "soil" back into meals at a set rate, forty percent by default.

Ship sits in orbit and sends a probe miner down to grab ore and return. Obviously moons and other low or null grab bodies are preferable. Heh, grab a big enough roid and you're set for several Cycles maybe.

Oh, so you're saying an eternal solution to life support while away from Kerbin, using Snacks and ISRU probes. Ah, ok. This would be cool, but I'm against life support mods as if there wasn't a Snacks ISRU probe, or if the mod didn't allow ISRU for food, then it would all go to heck.

[Vagrant203]

Drill probes, hauling a refinery up and down from orbit is an unnecessary expenditure of ∆v. And a planetary refinery is limited in location.

And Snacks DOES provide the ISRU life support, and uses stock resources with extra features. So proper planning and ISRU tech is all that's required.

Hitchhiker cans recycle soil, stock science lab converts ore.

Edited February 27, 2020 by Vagrant203

[greenTurtle1134]

26 minutes ago, LittleBitMore said:

And one other question: what's keeping us from picking a version and sticking to it? I mean, obviously newer versions are better, but older versions are generally okay. It would be easy to stick to one version until our modlist, however complicated it may be, is fully supported by the next update.

Easy, but probably just lazy too.

The concern, IIRC, is one mod getting abandoned and holding it back forever. Which would be annoying, because KSP could add something cool in later versions and we'd be stuck.

26 minutes ago, LittleBitMore said:

If we are to have a modder create the Remember Assembly Manager (named that way to confuse the heck out of people who talk about RAM), who should it be?

Well, if anyone sees this and knows modding, it could be very helpful, but I've been designing everything assuming no mod made specifically for this.

19 minutes ago, Vagrant203 said:

As for ongoing missions, maybe they should undergo an abort to stable orbit before the save file is passed on and they are filed into rescue contracts?

Another consideration is companion probecraft. Although I suppose those could simply be docked up and ship's stocks filled as though active mining had taken place in the interim, where applicable.

This adds some needless complexity. We now need to determine the bodies they're around, lodge them in a reasonable orbit, calculate how much they should be restocked... etc. And as I said, the entire "rescue contract" idea doesn't jibe with being forgotten.

I'd much rather it be a straight copy-paste.

20 minutes ago, LittleBitMore said:

It contains camera parts to throw onto the hull in strategic places. They're removable, sure, but I'm 90% sure the game will freak because it doesn't know what part you're trying to take off with KIS/KAS.

Hullcam is being maintained by linuxgurugamer who's been keeping a lot of mods alive for a long time so it might be safe to add, but every mod we add is another bit of RAM used and another potential point of failure with regards to conflicts and stuff. I'll think about it.

15 minutes ago, Vagrant203 said:

I've been developing a series of ships intended to support itself by using an ISRU to refuel. Snacks also allows you to turn ore into meals through the science lab, and recycle "soil" back into meals at a set rate, forty percent by default.

Ship sits in orbit and sends a probe miner down to grab ore and return. Obviously moons and other low or null grab bodies are preferable. Heh, grab a big enough roid and you're set for several Cycles maybe.

This is the kind of thing that'll break the Cycles wide open. Just plop a ship in Minmus orbit and fire a "hi there" probe at Kerbin every time it resets. The race, of course, will be to get the Science and Funds necessary to build these ships before your Cycle ends. It'll be interesting!

14 minutes ago, LittleBitMore said:

This would be cool, but I'm against life support mods as if there wasn't a Snacks ISRU probe, or if the mod didn't allow ISRU for food, then it would all go to heck.

The life support we've decided on is USI Life Support. Kerbals require Supplies, which can be recycled and possibly grown (I think). Kerbals who do not eat for 15 days go into a comatose state in which you can't control them, but they can be revived if someone delivers them some Supplies. Orange suits are immune to this state and will eat if possible but can function without Supplies.

Not sure if it has Ore-to-Supplies processing as it's really designed for use with MKS/OKS (which we're not using because 1. overcomplication and 2. background processing may make save copying harder), but we'll see.

-

"Park a ship around Minmus" has me thinking. As a compromise between "science in previous saves invalidated" and "science in previous saves works", maybe we can have only science from the Kerbin system invalidated? Thus, data collected on Kerbin, Mun, or Minmus would be of no value in a later cycle. You could store data across Crashes, but it would have to be from another planet, so easy "put a base on Mun with a thermometer" solutions don't work. It's easy enough to explain that the process of Kerbin resetting also changes the properties of the moons or something.

[Vagrant203]

19 minutes ago, greenTurtle1134 said:

This is the kind of thing that'll break the Cycles wide open. Just plop a ship in Minmus orbit and fire a "hi there" probe at Kerbin every time it resets. The race, of course, will be to get the Science and Funds necessary to build these ships before your Cycle ends. It'll be interesting!

Some avenues of research would likely be passed over, and there will be certain peculiarities that would mean such an idea wouldn't be implemented by MY Kerbals. I could say much more but I want to preserve the process of discovery. I will say that LSVs will not be easy to reach. [EDIT:] And also that the asteroid idea opens up a LOT of possibilities.

Edited February 27, 2020 by Vagrant203
Scheming schemes

[Vagrant203]

I always read the fine print. Reviewing the documentation for USI-LS, I'll definitely have to start a new save to get used to it. Fair bit more complex than Snacks.

[greenTurtle1134]

24 minutes ago, Vagrant203 said:

I always read the fine print. Reviewing the documentation for USI-LS, I'll definitely have to start a new save to get used to it. Fair bit more complex than Snacks.

We're going to be taking out the habitation system, that'll make leaving things in space too hard.

[Vagrant203]

3 hours ago, greenTurtle1134 said:

We're going to be taking out the habitation system, that'll make leaving things in space too hard.

That's good. I did think up a workaround for that, and the concept is still solid on its own.

[Vagrant203]

12 hours ago, LittleBitMore said:

 solution to life support while away from Kerbin, using ... ISRU probes.

... if the mod didn't allow ISRU for food, then it would all go to heck.

 

11 hours ago, greenTurtle1134 said:

The life support we've decided on is USI Life Support. Kerbals require Supplies, which can be recycled and possibly grown (I think).

Not sure if it has Ore-to-Supplies processing 

Having dug into the wiki and had some sleep, I can address concerns and uncertainty.

Ore can be converted to Fertilizer, and Kerbals produce Mulch as a waste product. One unit of Mulch is produced per unit of Supplies consumed. Greenhouses combine Mulch and Fertilizer to get Supplies in the following ratio; ten units of Mulch plus one unit of Fertilizer plus time results in eleven units of Supplies.

In conclusion, isolated survival is indeed quite possible, and even has some advantages over the Snacks methodology, balanced by added mass and complexity required for self-sufficiency.

[Dirkidirk]

27 minutes ago, Vagrant203 said:

Kerbals produce Mulch as a waste product.

how? kerbals aren't plants

[Vagrant203]

38 minutes ago, Dirkidirk said:

how? kerbals aren't plants

You sure about that? I think they might have evolved from cave fungi. 

Also, can't just outright call it poop the mod author is entitled to some artistic license. 

[Dirkidirk]

27 minutes ago, Vagrant203 said:

can't just outright call it poop

I call it "waste". 

28 minutes ago, Vagrant203 said:

You sure about that? I think they might have evolved from cave fungi. 

cave fungi "like" organisms. remember, these kerbals aren't from earth.

Spoiler

if the kerbals' domain is more similar to fungi and plants than to animals (or somewhere inbetween), than it would explain their ability to survive high G's, high temperatures, and impacts at speeds of over 30 m/s, and still smile afterwards.

 

[Vagrant203]

41 minutes ago, Dirkidirk said:

I call it "waste". 

cave fungi "like" organisms. 

From the USI-LS page, original post, quote:

Design side note:

So 'Mulch'.

Waste was used, and too generic. And I wanted something that showed that the stuff was kinda useful, not edible, and felt more 'kerbal' (and less like poo!) if that makes sense.

End quote.

As for fungi or fungi equivalents:

Spoiler

Yes, you are right, they are not Earth cave fungi, they are a race whose ancestors followed an evolutionary path that in part was analogous to Earth cave fungi, close enough in life cycle to cave fungi that they were functionally identical.

Boi do not play semantics games with me. I could have written a whole essay about their hypothetical evolution, but because that is WAY off topic I simplified it to two words that carried my meaning perfectly and efficiently.

 

[greenTurtle1134]

43 minutes ago, Dirkidirk said:

if the kerbals' domain is more similar to fungi and plants than to animals (or somewhere inbetween), than it would explain their ability to survive high G's, high temperatures, and impacts at speeds of over 30 m/s, and still smile afterwards.

also why they can survive indefinitely without food and turn into a poof of dust (spores?) upon death

@Geschosskopf ran with this idea in the Traveling Circus series.

 

[Dirkidirk]

6 minutes ago, Vagrant203 said:

Yes, you are right, they are not Earth cave fungi, they are a race whose ancestors followed an evolutionary path that in part was analogous to Earth cave fungi, close enough in life cycle to cave fungi that they were functionally identical.

Boi do not play semantics games with me. I could have written a whole essay about their hypothetical evolution, but because that is WAY off topic I simplified it to two words that carried my meaning perfectly and efficiently.

Move and breath like animals, green like plant, indestructible like tardigrade (yes I know that they are animals, Shut Up) and weird/resilient like fungi. So they are some weird combination of all 3 and a half!

Spoiler

Boi, someone can make a thread based of this!

 

[LittleBitMore]

Just now, Dirkidirk said:

Boi, someone can make a thread based of this!

Which would be a great idea since we're cluttering up this thread.

[greenTurtle1134]

Alright, I just installed the full modpack. Place your bets on how long it takes to load...

CPU stats: Intel Core i5-8250U @ 1.60Ghz with 8.00 GB RAM, x64 bit

 

Edited February 27, 2020 by greenTurtle1134