REMEMBER: A KSP Collaborative Game based on Forgotten Space Program (modpack finalized (mostly))

[Barzon]

actually yes. no mods. except maybe ReStock.

[greenTurtle1134]

3 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

On the mod front, I STRONGLY suggest making this 100% stock except for instrumentation mods like KAC, RCS Build Aid, MJ, KER, etc.  For this game to really become something like the real Forgotten Space Program, it has to remain viable for several real years.  During this time, updates to the game will happen, mods will be abandoned, etc.  @Cydonian Monk has had to do beaucoup work to get over such humps.  I'd prefer to avoid that.  

My reasoning for including mods is:

1. KSP 1.7 just dropped in April. It's unlikely we'll get a major version update in the next several months, and from what I can see from the forum, the last few versions didn't break mods. (USI hasn't updated since 1.3, but still works)
2. Maybe I watch too much Matt Lowne, but I get the feeling that stock KSP is something a skilled player can blitz through in a few sittings. For example, you can get all the science you need by walking around Mun, CTT solves that pretty soundly. I was worried that the game would just be too short if we don't use mods.
3. We can just pick mods with a high chance of being in active development. Plenty of things have survived since the early days of KSP; they'll survive a few years more, especially if they have an active community that might update them even if the dev leaves.
4. Stock has no off-world construction capability, and that will be an issue if the Forgotten ever decide to beat the Kerbin cycle by setting up shop off Kerbin.
5. Dealing with outdated, glitchy mods is also a classic aspect of Forgotten Space Program
6. OPM is really cool

I don't actually have much experience with modded KSP, so if I'm wrong on any of this, please correct me.

3 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

One key thing in the original story is that ships launched in different cycles can only talk to ships launched in the same cycle, but can't talk back to Kerbin or with ships launched in different cycles.  Communications only work from face-to-face meetings.  So, ongoing missions inherited from previous players cannot transmit Science!, although returning ships can bring Science! and Kerbals back to Kerbin.  

This brings up the subject of comms networks.  I don't see a way to prevent relays launched in 1 cycle from being used in the next cycle.  So I recommend deleting all relays when the save changes hands.  After all, the ships from the previous save can't talk back to Kerbin now so those relays are really don't work anymore.  Might as well ax them.

Hmm. That might be an element we drop, just for practicality. We're not using RemoteTech then? Because otherwise we'd have to delete every antenna.

3 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

I STRONGLY recommend against life support in particular.  That would mean the Forgotten would starve to death.   How can you meet ancient Kerbals from decades before, stuck in a small shipwreck on Duna, if you play with life support?

USI Life Support doesn't kill kerbals if they starve, just puts them into hibernation. You can still talk to the Forgotten, but you have to feed them first. I think TAC or Snacks might also be reconfigurable to do this.

3 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

Furthermore, I recommend rather easy settings for the career, like 200% rewards.  Try to eliminate ALL the grind, so folks can quickly get on with populating space with stuff that will then become Forgotten, for others to find  To this end, I also recommend using Custom Barn Kit to set a constant and nominal fee (say $1000) to hire new Kerbals and greatly reduce the price of building upgrades.  

We'll have an alternate source of income from the massive flood of World's First achievements each time we contact a Forgotten  I can amp those up a little.

3 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

The more this gets talked about, the more more I want to drop my own projects and do this  

Having the Travelling Circus in this situation would be hilarious. Part of the appeal is that every cycle could have a different personality for the space program, and Traveling Circus is... distinctive. The Boffins are going to have a fit over this new universe where instead of Kerbol going supernova, Kerbin reverts in time.

Edited August 4, 2019 by greenTurtle1134

[Geschosskopf]

3 hours ago, greenTurtle1134 said:

My reasoning for including mods is:

KSP 1.7 just dropped in April. It's unlikely we'll get a major version update in the next several months, and from what I can see from the forum, the last few versions didn't break mods. (USI hasn't updated since 1.3, but still works)

There's no guarantee present trends will continue.  Should a new Unity version come out, just updating KSP to that will likely break EVERYTHING, even the stock stuff, for a while, even if the associated update does no more than update KSP to the new Unity without making any changes to game content.  

Besides, someday somebody will want to join in when KSP is at 1.99 but this save is stuck on 1.7.5 because hypothetical 1.8 broke all the mods.  And that person won't be able to play.  This is the Longest Game, a community project potentially lasting as long as this forum itself.  It should be able to accept anybody at any time in the future, regardless of their potato computer.

 

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Maybe I watch too much Matt Lowne, but I get the feeling that stock KSP is something a skilled player can blitz through in a few sittings. For example, you can get all the science you need by walking around Mun, CTT solves that pretty soundly. I was worried that the game would just be too short if we don't use mods.

Well, the whole point is for players to get stuff on various planets, then BOOM. all becomes Forgotten.  Then the next player has to get far enough along to discover some of this Forgotten stuff and add his own, then BOOM again.  Thus, the faster players can get at least minimum interplanetary capability, the better.  As the purpose of the game is filling space with abandoned projects and stranded Kerbals to be discovered by others, and that's what participants will be expecting to do, it's counterproductive to set things up to make reaching this point difficult.

This is why I recommend 200% rewards, cheaper building upgrades, and extremely cheap Kerbal hires.  The buffed rewards eliminate all the stupid, repetitive grinding out temperature surveys and ridiculous part tests, the cheaper buildings let folks build bigger ships (with action groups) with lower tech, so they can get out there and become Forgotten, and the cheap Kerbals allow players to skip the stupid, repetitive rescue missions and get on with leaving relics in space.

In general, I find stock to be harder than modded.  Mods often add additional ways to get Science! so you end up with more points per trip.  So, given an all-stock game, it's a REAL grind if you don't buff the rewards.

 

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We can just pick mods with a high chance of being in active development. Plenty of things have survived since the early days of KSP; they'll survive a few years more, especially if they have an active community that might update them even if the dev leaves.

Pure luck.  This is not something upon which to base a major, years-long enterprise IMHO.  Even @Cydonian Monk himself recommends no mods in this.

 

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Stock has no off-world construction capability, and that will be an issue if the Forgotten ever decide to beat the Kerbin cycle by setting up shop off Kerbin.

Sure stock does.  You can build bases and stations to your heart's content.  Besides, once you start this project, you can't ever have it end except by lack of participation.  If some player creates a solution and ends the game, everybody else waiting for their turns will be liquided.  So all attempts to beat the system have to be futile, but should also be encouraged.  Players get started, then things change and all goes for naught.  But ending the game won't even become an issue until REAL years down the road, when enough Kerbals from enough players have gotten together to figure out what's going on.

That's the real difference in this concept from a conventional game.  In a conventional game, the player sets his objectives and all things happen according to his will, competence, and luck.  In this game, the players have to do all that, building their own program up from scratch.  HOWEVER, marooned Kerbals from previous players are out there doing their own things.  Thus, an "NPC Faction" will eventually evolve.  ONLY stranded Kerbals from previous cycles/players, who get together and compare notes, will have any idea that there are cycles at all.  Everybody else will just think things are totally normal until forced to think otherwise by the appearance (and acceptance) of a Kerbal from a previous cycle.  So, the only folks who can ever work on a solution to the problem are these Forgotten Kerbals,.  Which the current player has to deal with as well as his own ignorant masses, whether just carrying them on in the background or having them interact directly with his own stuff depending on how things unfold.  Given this setting, it seems unlikely that the Forgotten will ever be able to beat the system, especially if you don't give them the means  

 

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Dealing with outdated, glitchy mods is also a classic aspect of Forgotten Space Program

Only because @Cydonian Monk is an Adept of the 13th Circle of the Black Arts and uses his powers for his own benefit.  I'm sure not in that league and I doubt many others are, either.  

 

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OPM is really cool

Oh, I TOTALLY agree.  HOWEVER, it's also TOTALLY outside the concept of this game.  It takes years, DECADES even, to get out there, and nothing launched in that direction will EVER get there if folks have to spend all their real time mucking about at 1:1 and other low warp levels just rebuilding their tech going to Mun, Minus, and Duna.  OPM is a thing unto itself.  Once you have the tech to get out there, you have to completely stop doing anything at all the stock planets including Jool.  Otherwise, your stuff heading out to the OPM planets will never get there.

Besides, ALL mod planets rely on Kopernicus, which as you might recall only recently got updated to 1.7.+.  So again, mod planets are something I strongly recommend against.

 

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I don't actually have much experience with modded KSP, so if I'm wrong on any of this, please correct me.

I hope I have

 

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Hmm. That might be an element we drop, just for practicality. We're not using RemoteTech then? Because otherwise we'd have to delete every antenna.

I would definitely NOT use RT.  Frankly, it's both ludicrous and a total pain.  And the stock system does a better job with far less load and no mod dependencies.  I know whereof I speak, having used RT quite a few times.  Even wrote a tutorial on it.  And I'll never touch it again.

I think it's pretty easy to delete relays.  1st thing you do when you open the new save is go to the Tracking Station, set the filter to relays, and terminate them all.  Then you have to build your own network.  And always enforce the rule that no Science! can be transmitted by leftover ships.

 

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USI Life Support doesn't kill kerbals if they starve, just puts them into hibernation. You can still talk to the Forgotten, but you have to feed them first. I think TAC or Snacks might also be reconfigurable to do this.

I've used every LS mod (except Kerbalism) many times each and have come to the conclusion that regardless of the mod, they're all pointless in regular games.  All they do is add mass, part count, and cost to your ships without affecting gameplay AT ALL.  In the design phase, before you even launch, you build in enough supplies to last the trip and NEVER think about it again.  It has exactly the same zero gameplay value as re-entry heating.  Stick on a heatshield and never think about it again.

It would be even worse in the context of this idea.  If life support failure won't kill Kerbals, then why even have it?  If it does kill Kerbals, then it defeats the whole purpose of this game.  So this is absolutely the #1 thing that should not be in this game.

So, my vote is for only 2 required mods:  KAC and Custom Barn Kit.  And allow player to use purely instrumentation mods of choice (MJ, KER, RCS Build Aid, etc.), which have no impact on other players.  Otherwise, pure stock.  And especially don't include life support, mod planets, and RT  

 

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We'll have an alternate source of income from the massive flood of World's First achievements each time we contact a Forgotten  I can amp those up a little.

AFAIK, the stock World's First things only have to do with orbital maneuvers in new situations, rendezvous, docking, EVAs, getting Science!, finding stock anomalies, and returning from other places.  The only way the Forgotten play into this is docking with one of their things, and that only if that hadn't already been done at that planet.

But hey, if players can get some extra cash, that's all to the good.  Accelerate progress up to a point.  In a typical turn, you want players to be able to get out there, but not too far.  You don't want the inherited burden of dozens of ongoing, complex Jool missions from previous players keeping the current player from doing his own stuff.  Getting to Jool in a substantial way should be quite difficult, not due to slow tech advancement but because of short amounts (only a few years) of gametime per player turn.

The more I think about it, the more I think this game needs a GM to play the NPC Faction of the Forgotten, handling critical events between them.  IOW, the GM plays the game to hash out what the Forgotten are doing for a while between each player's turn, before handing the save on to the next player.  The time gap between players can be explained by an intervening cycle that ended prior to Kerbin developing spaceflight at all.

 

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Having the Travelling Circus in this situation would be hilarious. Part of the appeal is that every cycle could have a different personality for the space program, and Traveling Circus is... distinctive. The Boffins are going to have a fit over this new universe where instead of Kerbol going supernova, Kerbin reverts in time.

Well, thanks   

As to how my hypothetical turn would work, the Boffins would spring into existence assuming there'd been yet another supernova, not knowing anything that had gone before.  So they'd set out same as always.  Maybe they'd last long enough to learn something from the past but then they'd be swept away leaving whatever relics they'd managed to create.  Which would be crewed by pressganged criminals who are irate at having suffered much and whose chemical indoctrination has probably worn off from lack of maintenance after many years....   Subsequent players would do well just to shoot them on sight  

Edited August 4, 2019 by Geschosskopf

[greenTurtle1134]

39 minutes ago, Geschosskopf said:

<loud argument dismantling sound>

Hmm, you make a lot of good points. Guess we're doing this stock. I would still say add ScrapYard to the mix for the "salvaging future technology" aspect. It can also be removed from the save rather quickly if it becomes outdated.

46 minutes ago, Geschosskopf said:

Well, the whole point is for players to get stuff on various planets, then BOOM. all becomes Forgotten.  Then the next player has to get far enough along to discover some of this Forgotten stuff and add his own, then BOOM again.  Thus, the faster players can get at least minimum interplanetary capability, the better.  As the purpose of the game is filling space with abandoned projects and stranded Kerbals to be discovered by others, and that's what participants will be expecting to do, it's counterproductive to set things up to make reaching this point difficult.

I was... planning on taking this in a different direction.

See, what you wrote is what Forgotten Space Program is about. On the other hand I imagined this as a challenge to the collective whole of the forums to accomplish something under ridiculous constraints. Regular career mode, even hard difficulty, and you only have a few years to work with before a disaster strikes, a la Plan Kappa. The catch being that people have tried before, and you can both learn from their mistakes and directly profit off them. Can you build a viable Jool ship from start within 1 year? NO! Can you build a viable Jool ship by stealing bits of other people's Jool ships? YES! Are those people happy you stole their Jool ships? NO! Did you plan your designs in such a way that they're even compatible? LET'S FIND OUT! My idea was to set up a system where one person, working alone, couldn't accomplish anything of note, but multiple people, coordinating either explicitly or implicitly... might.

I wasn't even going to have any restrictions on what people RP as. This was in the name of a greater audience, as not everyone can write a consistent narrative for the world of their Kerbals. I was going to outright allow metagaming and let you pretend that the Kerbals knew about the Crash cycle from the start, if you so desired. I wanted something different from Forgotten space program. That's why it's named REMEMBER, not Forgotten: The Game - because it takes the same theme as Forgotten but runs in a different way. More idealistic, in a sense. With more cooperation than conflict (but still lots of conflict).

And I do feel that this way is more suited to a Community Game, and the other way is more suited to a story/mission report. As you said, we'll have to have a GM player, who juggles the motivation of all the Kerbals that got left behind. He'll have to interfere in between saves, write dialogues and actions for all the players. In short, he'll have to be writing Forgotten Space Program, except unlike @Cydonian Monk he has to play along with whatever characterizations the various players give their kerbals. I mean, I bet quite a few of the people here didn't even come from Forgotten Space Program.

--

But that's just my opinion, and what I set out to do when I started this project. If everyone else wants something drastically different, I'll go with that.

[Geschosskopf]

1 hour ago, greenTurtle1134 said:

I was... planning on taking this in a different direction.

See, what you wrote is what Forgotten Space Program is about. On the other hand I imagined this as a challenge to the collective whole of the forums to accomplish something under ridiculous constraints. Regular career mode, even hard difficulty, and you only have a few years to work with before a disaster strikes, a la Plan Kappa. The catch being that people have tried before, and you can both learn from their mistakes and directly profit off them. Can you build a viable Jool ship from start within 1 year? NO! Can you build a viable Jool ship by stealing bits of other people's Jool ships? YES! Are those people happy you stole their Jool ships? NO! Did you plan your designs in such a way that they're even compatible? LET'S FIND OUT! My idea was to set up a system where one person, working alone, couldn't accomplish anything of note, but multiple people, coordinating either explicitly or implicitly... might.

Well, sorry I misunderstood   Still, if the game can end on any turn, it will discourage participation as inevitably some who sign up won't get a turn.  And other player's Jool ships, if they ever take flight, will be gone beyond reach when it's the next player's turn, so there'll be nothing to steal from apart from weird circumstances such as led to the highjacking of "Memory of Tomorrow" due to a non-standard visit to Mun on the way out.  Every other Jool ship not diverted to some other planet for plot reasons would leave direct from where it was built and will become part of the NPC Forgotten faction if a cycle happens before it gets back.

 

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I wasn't even going to have any restrictions on what people RP as. This was in the name of a greater audience, as not everyone can write a consistent narrative for the world of their Kerbals

I wouldn't, either.  Culture clashes are great fodder for narratives.

 

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 I was going to outright allow metagaming and let you pretend that the Kerbals knew about the Crash cycle from the start, if you so desired. I wanted something different from Forgotten space program. That's why it's named REMEMBER, not Forgotten: The Game - because it takes the same theme as Forgotten but runs in a different way. More idealistic, in a sense. With more cooperation than conflict (but still lots of conflict).

Well, that's fine, but then you have explain how knowledge of the cycles persists when nothing else does.

 

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And I do feel that this way is more suited to a Community Game, and the other way is more suited to a story/mission report. As you said, we'll have to have a GM player, who juggles the motivation of all the Kerbals that got left behind. He'll have to interfere in between saves, write dialogues and actions for all the players. In short, he'll have to be writing Forgotten Space Program, except unlike @Cydonian Monk he has to play along with whatever characterizations the various players give their kerbals. I mean, I bet quite a few of the people here didn't even come from Forgotten Space Program.

Well, that's all part of the GM's job.  To cite an old cliché,,,,

GM:  So, you're walking down the street.  On the right is an old warehouse, on the left is----

Player:  (trying to be SmartS) "Is that a "werehouse", like a "werewolf"?

GM:  (rolling dice and scribbling notes) "It is NOW" 

Edited August 5, 2019 by Geschosskopf

[greenTurtle1134]

12 minutes ago, Geschosskopf said:

Well, that's fine, but then you have explain how knowledge of the cycles persists when nothing else does.

See, that's the point. You can explain as much or as little as you want. You can write kerbals with no fourth wall whatsoever if you want to. Though that will just lead to a BIGGER culture clash when they come across others...

12 minutes ago, Geschosskopf said:

Well, that's all part of the GM's job.

See, that's another problem. This needs to be self-maintaining. I have enough time over the summer to write a program, but after a few weeks, school starts and I won't be able to write and play an intricate storyline for this. Someone else could, but then the entire game pretty much depends on them.

I think we can leave it at "guess what the other Kerbals would do" and leave it at that. Any confusion can be discussed on this topic.

11 minutes ago, Geschosskopf said:

Still, if the game can end on any turn, it will discourage participation as inevitably some who sign up won't get a turn.

It's not that it would end, just that a goal would exist beyond just cycling through again and again. Once we got off-Kerbin capacity, for example, we aren't back to square zero after each cycle (and we would have to appoint someone as the Base NPC, but we'll burn that bridge when we get to it)

12 minutes ago, Geschosskopf said:

And other player's Jool ships, if they ever take flight, will be gone beyond reach when it's the next player's turn

Okay, I meant their stations, near-Kerbin vessels, and stuff. The infrastructure building up to a Jool flight by doing Science around Kerbin and such.

Edited August 5, 2019 by greenTurtle1134

[Ultimate Steve]

I'm interested. This is extremely interesting.

Totally not going to cobble together an interplanetary vessel made of old space stations...

[greenTurtle1134]

Next questions:

1. What does everyone else think about including mods? @Geschosskopf is against them, I think a few won't hurt... where does everyone else stand? I know at least one person specifically asked for mods before reading the OP and editing
2. How do I reset the poll? Because now if I create a new question, none of you can vote, and that just looks stupid

[KerbalKore]

13 minutes ago, greenTurtle1134 said:

where does everyone else stand?

Mods are crucial to a good experience in the game, especially for a long term situation such as this. BDB, Tundra, and Tantares can give every cycle a unique style and set of hardware, especially if you mix and match.

[KerikBalm]

On 8/3/2019 at 10:19 AM, fulgur said:

Hi GreenTurtle, I think this is a really cool idea! @KerikBalm updated his Modification of Inner Planets mod to 1.7 and is in the process of adding BG surface features. Speaking of which, are you using the DLCs?

Actually, all the changes I've done I haven't yet updated. As I tried to explain, the planet packs don't really need updating for new versions - it is Kopernicus that needs updating when new versions come out. I only need to update for scatterer and kopernicus if they change something.

On 8/3/2019 at 6:37 PM, greenTurtle1134 said:

Huh, so that's what they're calling Rald now? Sure. I'll put that into consideration.

I don't think we should use the DLCs, because that'll close it off to anyone without the DLCs. People with DLCs are just going to have to make sure not to use those parts or something. Or is there a mod or config that can "disable" a DLC?

Well, I released Rald by itself, but I also made a few other space rocks and released them as a pack along with Rald. I wanted to add stuff to the inner solar system (so as to be compatible with OPM, you don't want two major planets crossing orbits), and I didn't want to unrealistically pack the inner solar system.

So the space rocks I added are as follows:

1) Ike to Mun sized body at Kerbin's L5 point. Based on this: hypothesis , in this case the mass that accumulated at L5 didn't grow to mars' size and remained stable (I'm still going to say that one at L4 did grow to that size, and that gave us Mun). I think its a good addition because there's essentially no transfer windows, and its a low gravity body that doesn't take so much dV to reach, and it could be a good "beyond Kerbin SOI" trainer.

2) 2 new space rocks (Vot and Pact) based on the asteroids Vesta and Pallas (the 2nd and 3rd largest asteroids). Dres gets scaled down to be a more proper Ceres analogue. Thus its more like an asteroid belt with small bodies orbiting between Duna and Jool. While these bodies are less interesting than Dres, if you want to go to somewhere between Duna and Jool, there are more options and thus its more likely a transfer window to one of them will be nearby.

3) Minmus gets moved out to keep Vot, Pact, and Dres company... Thus completing the "asteroid belt" of OPM.

4) As I had limited places to put Rald where it wouldn't interfere with the orbits of other planets, and it wouldn't seem unrealistic with liquid water on its surface and ice caps at the poles, I wanted it to either be a double planet with Kerbin, or a double planet with Duna. With Kerbin it looks really cool, but I wanted it to be a bit more work to get to, and that also makes it more valuable in a role play scenario as a 2nd home for Kerbals just in case something happens to kerbin (such as the L5 body being perturbed and striking kerbin, which would make enough ejecta to probably screw over Rald too if Rald was a moon of Kerbin).

 

As for the DLC, at the moment I don't know what to do. A simple text file in the same format as ROCSdef.cfg in my modpack can add and modify surface features to the stock bodies (such as geysers in Kerbins Badlands, underwater basalt formations, icebergs on Kerbin's ice shelves). Doing the same thing doesn't work for Kopernicus created planets.

If Kopernicus updates to fix this, my mod planets/moons/asteroids will get surface features. As its just 1 text file adding them, it should work fine without them.

Edited August 5, 2019 by KerikBalm

[greenTurtle1134]

Alright, due to the forum software being uncooperative I have moved the poll to a Google Form. Please vote here!

[greenTurtle1134]

Poll results so far:

1. 50/50 on modded or not
2. 75% say use life support
3. Unanimous rejection of RemoteTech
4. 50/50 on Kerbal Construction Time
5. Restock+ has most votes, with BDB, NFT, and Mk4 right behind it
6. @Ultimate Steve @Geschosskopf @Kerballing (Got Dunked On) and @Lokachop please vote on the poll.

Edited August 7, 2019 by greenTurtle1134
Add another name

[greenTurtle1134]

Not entirely sure whether notifications work if you edit them in, so I'm now stuck with sending a third message just for the poll.

@Lokachop

@Johnster_Space_Program

@Space Nerd

@ResonantWaves

@Machinique

@commierussia

The poll in the thread is NOT WORKING. Please fill out the mods survey at https://forms.gle/ZdTNPyvZRC3mgemv6. (It's basically what's in the poll)

(the reason I want more people to vote is that it's exactly tied right now)

Edited August 7, 2019 by greenTurtle1134

[Geschosskopf]

4 hours ago, greenTurtle1134 said:

please vote on the poll.

I would vote if the mod poll had a "none of the above" option  

[greenTurtle1134]

4 minutes ago, Geschosskopf said:

I would vote if the mod poll had a "none of the above" option  

It does. I actually put in an option that said "STOCK GAME"

[Geschosskopf]

18 minutes ago, greenTurtle1134 said:

It does. I actually put in an option that said "STOCK GAME"

Not in the 2nd question.

[greenTurtle1134]

25 minutes ago, Geschosskopf said:

Not in the 2nd question.

You mean "Do we use mods or not?"

Added a "I don't care" option, if that's what you meant.

[Geschosskopf]

Just now, greenTurtle1134 said:

You mean "Do we use mods or not?"

Added a "I don't care" option, if that's what you meant.

 It's not showing up.  The 1st question (planet mods) has an option for none (stock).  The 2nd question (part mods) looks like this:

 

 

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2. Which of the following rocket parts mods do you want the most?

• Bluedog Design Bureau (historical American rockets)
• Tantares (Russian rockets)
• Tundra Exploration (SpaceX)
• reDIRECT (Space Launch System and Orion)

 

• There is not a pure stock option.

 

 

 

[greenTurtle1134]

1 minute ago, Geschosskopf said:

 It's not showing up.  The 1st question (planet mods) has an option for none (stock).

Oh, the poll at the top of the topic is invalidated. I should probably remove it. I realized that you can't actually change your answer, meaning that adding new questions is useless. I'm using this google form now: https://forms.gle/ZdTNPyvZRC3mgemv6

Edited August 7, 2019 by greenTurtle1134

[Lokachop]

Voted.

[greenTurtle1134]

19 minutes ago, Lokachop said:

Voted.

See, here's the annoying thing:

It's still tied.

I'm going to use the people who said they will definitely be playing as a tiebreaker. Under that rule, the final results of the poll are:

• We will be using mods
• We will not be using life support
• We will not be using RemoteTech
• We will be using KCT
• Restock+ and Near Future Technologies tied for first place, Mk4 in second, and BDB tied with OPT for third

I'll take this into account while building the modpack.

[KerballingSmasher]

Voted (too late)

[greenTurtle1134]

Okay, I've decided what happens to kerbals that are off-Kerbin when the Crash hits:

1. Any crewed ship will be tagged with [FORGOTTEN] by the program. (All uncrewed ships are marked as debris and set uncontrollable)
2. If a craft is crewed by only Kerbals of one Cycle, it is controlled by the person who conducted that cycle. If it is crewed by more than one Cycle, it is under control of the player base as a whole via democratic vote. (They draw their members from all of our saves, after all) (I might have the program distinguish these types, by marking those Kerbals that have "found out" with [CONTINUUM] for instance)
3. The player currently'playing the save has to ignore any vessel that has been marked [FORGOTTEN] unless one of their kerbals manages to contact them. Seriously, honor system. Don't click them, don't switch to them, don't fly them, without the forum's permission. (I may mark them as debris or unknown just so they can be filtered out easily
4. The active player has the responsibility of keeping the forum informed of what situation all the Forgotten are in, and of executing to the best of their ability any maneuver that the Forgotten's player / the voice of the forum recommends. Add maneuver nodes to all your ships just to make their job a bit easier.

Additional decisions to take note of:

1. We will be using KCT and ScrapYard. These can be removed in a jiffy if they become out of date, and add an interesting aspect to the game with the possibility of salvage operations.
2. We will be using OPM. Yes, there's next to no chance we ever get to it, but it'll be interesting if we do and can be removed with little effort (just move any ships in the SOI, out)
3. Cycles will start at around a few weeks - barely enough to get into orbit - and slowly (logarithmically) increase in length to a few years, as the game goes on.

I'm starting a new form poll to decide some other things I need to know:

1. FAR or no FAR?
2. What happens to relays (I can probably just disable them, but I want your opinions first)
3. Using Oh Scrap?
4. Using Inner Planets Modification?

Please vote on the form with this link: https://forms.gle/W19Y3mSmjY7CfsMe9

[Lokachop]

Voted again.

[greenTurtle1134]

I might end up overriding the life support vote, simply because:

1. We've decided that all relays will be disabled but not destroyed when the reset hits
2. If there's kerbals on a vessel, they can just re-enable the relays
3. If the Forgotten wish to build their own relay network, they'll have to just leave one Kerbal at each relay
4. This is trivial if life support doesn't exist. I do like the image of a bunch of Kerbals with radios, sitting in high orbit alone, conversing with each other, but there should be some challenge to building the relay net. We will probably have more kerbals than relays after a while.
5. Additionally, in this particular instance, life support is NOT just dead weight. Since Kerbin is unsafe, we will almost certainly be colonizing the rest of the solar system, and life support works well with that.
6. The life support will be no-kill, as in the Kerbals will just go into hibernation once they run out, so you'll still be able to talk to long-gone Kerbals, you just need to feed and water them first.
7. This will also trim down the complexity of the Forgotten side of things, leading to each player not having to manage as many Forgotten ships, because most single-kerbal pods will just run out and go into hibernation before anything happens, basically becoming rescue contracts for the next player.
8. The life support vote is only "no" by one vote, so I won't even be overriding much

The main problem is that I'll have to find a mod that fits these requirements. The problem being:

1. TAC-LS is updated for 1.7, but is a bit too complex and only has a hibernate option for food and water - O2 and EC depletion will kill, no matter what.
2. USI-LS has a hibernation option (as the default) but was last updated for 1.6 and might be more designed towards MKS (I've already decided that I'll be doing Pathfinder, I don't want to risk the complexity of MKS, and copying over may screw up resource networks and the like)
3. Snacks! makes sense because it's made by @Angel-125 (we'll be using his mods anyway) but looking through the options, I don't think it has a "disable Kerbal for the time being and do nothing else" setting. In addition, it seems too simple (no waste resources, even)

At this point I'm either going to:

• Throw in USI and hope that it works in 1.7 and/or gets updated for any future versions
• Give up on life support

Thoughts?

---

The putative modpack at this point includes:

Spoiler

• OPM
• FAR
• KIS/KAS
• ScrapYard
• OPE Workshop
• Restock+
• Near Future Technologies
• Kerbal Atomics
• Heat Control
• Mark IV Spaceplane System
• Bluedog Design Bureau
• DMagic Orbital Science
• MOLE
• Pathfinder
• Surface Mounted Lights
• and all dependencies

I'm tiebreaking in favor of FAR.