Will Skyhook tech be available in KSP 2?

[Incarnation of Chaos]

12 minutes ago, Motokid600 said:

Ill never understand the obsession with these overly intricate alternative methods of getting to orbit. What's wrong with basic reusable rockets?

While i agree with this sentiment; imagine a world after these basic reusable rockets make the cost of accessing space virtually nothing. A world where you can launch unmanned tugs to bring asteroids back and use them for their raw materials, water etc.

Eventually you're going to want infrastructure to support these ships, and the people on them. It's just people tend to want to jump the gun, and build this infrastructure too soon.

[DStaal]

25 minutes ago, nikokespprfan said:

Unless building a skyhook is like building a colony. Once you have completed it, all the complex dynamics keeping the system operational will be neglected because you have succeded in your goal. From now on, it just works. It is, after all, a megastructure. The question is, will we be satisfied by that?

I doubt we would be.  And note that is *not* how they've said they're handling a colony: They've said they'll have a level-of-detail system in the simulation to handle large structures, but implied by that is that the structure otherwise is just another set of parts.

So... If you want to completely special case it, you basically will have a part which you can launch, and put into a 'good' orbit, and hit 'activate'.  If it's an acceptable orbit, poof: you've got a skyhook, which can hook you up if you get to a specific location X meters below that orbit, and will drop you off at X meters above that orbit.  Fairly low-impact to build, but also fairly unsatisfying to have in the game.

If you aren't going to special case it, you only really need one special part: the cable.  But you then need to model the cable for the length, and you'll have to deal with the cable being used for other things, and...

All this for a system that still requires you to be traveling Mach 12 at the edge of space to use.  (Ok - that RSS.  Scale it down to Mach 5 or 6 or something.)  I mean, it's not really saving you much on the way to orbit.  Why are we adding this, and not orbital rings, space fountains, laser launch systems, mass drivers, a bifrost bridge, etc.?

If you just want it for interplanetary actions...  Well, with some good sets of struts I bet you could build a decent 1km-long one now in KSP1.

1 minute ago, Motokid600 said:

Ill never understand the obsession with these overly intricate alternative methods of getting to orbit. What's wrong with basic reusable rockets?

This at least I can answer: Because even reusable rockets are expensive.  A Falcon 9 costs about $2,720 per payload kg to orbit.  Compare than to a Proton-M's $4,302 per payload kg to orbit and it's saving a lot of money.  Compare that to a small Lofstrom Loop's cost of $300 per payload kg to orbit and it's ridiculous.  (Now of course there's a lot of fixed costs on the latter, so that $300/kg only really happens if you're launching ~40,000 tones a year - but you can afford to.)  And there are cheaper-in-theory ways than that, or ways that have lower fixed costs but still halve or better the costs of launch over a traditional rocket.

(Notably I don't raise the skyhook here - because it doesn't actually save you much money, at least on surface to orbit.)

[Motokid600]

" And there are cheaper-in-theory ways than that" All of which require some ridiculous, border line sci-fi advances in materials science. I like to concentrate on things that could occur in my lifetime. But forgive me I suppose. This is about features in KSP2 of which will already have interstellar travel so my post is irreverent

Edited November 23, 2019 by Motokid600

[DStaal]

33 minutes ago, Motokid600 said:

" And there are cheaper-in-theory ways than that" All of which require some ridiculous, border line sci-fi advances in materials science. I like to concentrate on things that could occur in my lifetime. But forgive me I suppose. This is about features in KSP2 of which will already have interstellar travel so my post is irreverent

Actually, most of them don't.  What most of them do have is huge setup and static costs - The cost for them is the same whether you're launching 40,000 tones a year or one tone a year.  So you need a good business plan for why the space market will support your mega-launcher, when the entire market is currently launching around 2,000 tones a year or less.  Build it and they will come works to a point - but if the don't come you need to raise your prices, which makes you less attractive - especially since you are more limited in the number of orbits you can launch to...  And some of them are not only useless when turned off, they destroy themselves.

And while they're often using fairly 'standard' materials, they may have other issues: I remember seeing tests for a laser launch system probably a decade or so ago, but they were having major trouble aiming the laser past the first couple hundred meters.  The system worked fine as long as the laser hit the test projectile, but it's own output got in it's way.

[MrFancyPL]

While spacehooks are much harder to implement to the code of the game and usage of them would be unimaginably hard ( large diffrences of speed, randezevous on such high velocities with manual only steering is unimaginable for me. Some living gods of this game like Marcus House or Stratenblitz would do it, but for the generic KSP player it would be unpassable border. Generally without some auto guidances it would be unusable. It would be hard to stick to the spacehook, and even harder to detatch when required direction of movement is achieved), Lofstrom loops would be better option- easier, much more predictable, easier for the coder (its bassicaly a large mid air suspended  em sled).https://youtu.be/J1MAg0UAAHg

[QuantumMatrix]

Will there be the ability to build space tethers (skyhooks) in KSP 2?  (Video for reference)

 

[Gargamel]

15 minutes ago, QuantumMatrix said:

Will there be the ability to build space tethers (skyhooks) in KSP 2?

Identical threads have been merged. 

[mattinoz]

Every time I read this I wonder why not build a big ring right around the earth equator spinning orbital velocity for it elevation then have electric trains going backwards to hold position above a spot on earth long enough to drop a hook down then pick up a payload drag it back up to the ring and up to speed in the process.

So quick google and found it is a Tesla concept.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_ring

[Incarnation of Chaos]

3 hours ago, mattinoz said:

Every time I read this I wonder why not build a big ring right around the earth equator spinning orbital velocity for it elevation then have electric trains going backwards to hold position above a spot on earth long enough to drop a hook down then pick up a payload drag it back up to the ring and up to speed in the process.

So quick google and found it is a Tesla concept.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_ring

Also, you're basically describing a launch loop.

Spoiler

 

 

[mcwaffles2003]

10 minutes ago, Incarnation of Chaos said:

Also, you're basically describing a launch loop.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

its a perfect description of an orbital ring:

Spoiler

 

A launch loop is basically a railgin originating on the ground that launches payloads to orbit with very little propellant

[Incarnation of Chaos]

4 minutes ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

its a perfect description of an orbital ring:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

A launch loop is basically a railgin originating on the ground that launches payloads to orbit with very little propellant

Right; forgot you could build a ring without a giant railgun inside........

Never let me anywhere NEAR a space program

[mattinoz]

21 hours ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

its a perfect description of an orbital ring:

  Hide contents

 

A launch loop is basically a railgin originating on the ground that launches payloads to orbit with very little propellant

Well yes that is exactly what is was thinking. Indeed now even more amazed haven't seen that well explored in Sci-fi. Maybe because once set up and running it wouldn't create much in way of political tension to drive the storyline.

So guessing now question is how to capture iron rich asteroid and extrude into a very long cable out of it to get it started.

Edited: to wonder out loud if it would technically work at any height then why couldn't you build it on the ground using a spring as the wire that could expand as it accelerated. Could be mass produced in segments then lay them out around the earth then use the solar panels on the tether nodes to start it spinning faster and faster. Each segment would only need expand 15% of it's length to get from sea level to 80km. Then you have cheap lift platform to get other parts up there to strengthen it up to take more load. Even build the next one at 80km and get to expand out to what ever the next worthwhile level is or at angles to make mesh.

 

Matt get back to work stop thinking about this.

Edited January 7, 2020 by mattinoz

[Incarnation of Chaos]

1 hour ago, mattinoz said:

Well yes that is exactly what is was thinking. Indeed now even more amazed haven't seen that well explored in Sci-fi. Maybe because once set up and running it wouldn't create much in way of political tension to drive the storyline.

So guessing now question is how to capture iron rich asteroid and extrude into a very long cable out of it to get it started.

Edited: to wonder out loud if it would technically work at any height then why couldn't you build it on the ground using a spring as the wire that could expand as it accelerated. Could be mass produced in segments then lay them out around the earth then use the solar panels on the tether nodes to start it spinning faster and faster. Each segment would only need expand 15% of it's length to get from sea level to 80km. Then you have cheap lift platform to get other parts up there to strengthen it up to take more load. Even build the next one at 80km and get to expand out to what ever the next worthwhile level is or at angles to make mesh.

 

Matt get back to work stop thinking about this.

Drag and Friction heating are a major factor; also i disagree on the "Wouldn't create much in the way of political tension". In Peacetime and War controlling major Economic Hubs is a massive boon, and often a constant source of friction for those who have them. Also all the various contractors that would be involved in making and maintaining a structure such as this would also be ruthlessly cuthroat; likely resorting to violance or intimidation to keep their contracts, deadlines and reputation.

So it's not lacking for tension; it's just lacking someone to explore it in story.