[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[Voculus]

Before I begin, I searched the thread as best I could, but was unable to sift through the massive bulk of info contained therein! So I would like to ask if there is a solution to keep my surface lights from ripping off my ships when reentering Kerbin's atmosphere.

Only the tail lights are ever affected, and never lights on the wings or nose. Everything else on the plane is golden. Is there some CFG voodoo I can work on these surface lights that will prevent FAR from ravaging them? Thanks!

[tetryds]

Before I begin, I searched the thread as best I could, but was unable to sift through the massive bulk of info contained therein! So I would like to ask if there is a solution to keep my surface lights from ripping off my ships when reentering Kerbin's atmosphere.

https://4q2bdq.bn1.livefilestore.com/y2pA9DntFHTwLYqE49Yk9vI_hPwKnSXctKMqiMTGUKGdsM32Ajndo8Dtgk1A9x2NEoBVMGH5zdOdsOiNkRHPlrZ_bQrENSp5gceYNCQX2nH0cA/Aero.png?psid=1

Only the tail lights are ever affected, and never lights on the wings or nose. Everything else on the plane is golden. Is there some CFG voodoo I can work on these surface lights that will prevent FAR from ravaging them? Thanks!

I believe it's because the tail one is angled relative to the motion, so it has angle of attack, and the force on it rips it off.

That is because FAR doesn't know there is something blocking it, imagine that the wind is going through the hull straight on it.

Well, that is my guess.

I think you can disable atmospheric damage on them manually using the options you can find on the FAR menu on the KSC view.

[ferram4]

@yohuan: You go into the FerramAerospaceResearch.cfg and remove the block that reduces engine thrust by 1/2, and then you don't complain about having too much thrust ever.

@brusura: Was acknowledged as a known issue that was fixed in the dev build on the page before.

@Voculus: Solution is to keep dynamic pressure low. Other solutions are to place the lights so that they are less of a sudden protrusion into the flow, which makes them more likely to be torn off.

[mossman]

It seems like parts are experiencing far less drag than they should; I'm able to fly almost mach 1 at sea level with a basic airplane design (Mk1 fuselage, swept wings, and some tail fins) and less than 30 kN of thrust. Is that normal? It feels wrong to me.

I should also note that the drag display when right-clicking on most parts in flight shows up as 0.

Edited September 8, 2014 by mossman

[ferram4]

Well, with a plane that small, 30 kN is more than enough to get it up to Mach 1.

Could you show a picture of the drag readouts? Are you attaching lots of payload fairing parts everywhere that are shielding those parts?

[mossman]

Well, with a plane that small, 30 kN is more than enough to get it up to Mach 1.

Could you show a picture of the drag readouts? Are you attaching lots of payload fairing parts everywhere that are shielding those parts?

I'm using Kerbal Aircraft Expansion for the engine, I should mention. Shouldn't effect too much else though.

[Donziboy2]

Taverius said to poke you about this ferram4.

I think this B9 SideBody Adapter is getting a little to much drag.

[Camacha]

Ferram, did you ever implement different gasses/atmospheres? I am thinking of doing something for which that might be relevant, but I have not been around for a while. I know you were planning on doing this, but am not sure whether you ever actually did, or maybe reconsidered.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Camacha

[mossman]

Okay, doing some tests using less mods installed and drag is functioning normally so there's definitely some mod conflict thing going on that makes stuff have less aerodynamic drag.

Will update with further results...

[Jagzeplin]

Sarbian has updated the FAR plugin so that it no longer happens, BTW.

thanks! i downloaded the new version and now i can switch focus and reload and still be able to steer my spaceplane!

[Surefoot]

Made a fresh install of everything, B9, FAR, pwings etc. Latest everything.

Nothing flies properly anymore like this kind of design which used to fly without any effort:

Just drops in the water. I tried to hyperedit it at 15000m for a drop and there is basically zero control (roll, pitch, yaw, nothing) even if i go straight down and try to pull up, no go, the plane just wobbles itself to pieces. Control surfaces move properly, its just like my plane is inside a constant tornado.

I got KJR too, and ModuleManager 2.3.5.

Not sure what i am missing here ?

Edited September 8, 2014 by Surefoot

[nli2work]

what do the Aerodynamic failure numbers mean? if the part has more that force applied to it during flight it breaks off?

[AccidentalDisassembly]

Question - I am getting a lot of this:

ArgumentException: Value does not fall within the expected range.

at ferram4.FARControlSys.OnDestroy () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at ferram4.FARControlSys.OnGUI () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at (wrapper delegate-invoke) Callback:invoke_void__this__ ()

at (wrapper delegate-invoke) Callback:invoke_void__this__ ()

at RenderingManager.OnGUI () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

(Filename: Line: -1)

... in the ol' logs, possibly has to do with the Hangar add-on and ships being eaten by it. It happens at the same time as some graphical glitches- rapid flashing of the navball, altimeter, warp meter thing, and staging control in lower left - basically everything that's not the toolbar or belongs to a mod (including the Toolbar plugin & related). Is that problematic enough that you'd like a log? Or is this something that can't possibly have to do with FAR per se?

[ferram4]

@mossman: Oh, why didn't you say it was for intakes only? That's on purpose, because those numbers go into the stock drag model.

@Camacha: Added back in 0.9, IIRC.

@Surefoot: I'll need to see the output_log.txt. Did this fly in FAR previously, or only in stock aero?

@nli2work: Aero failure numbers are forces to cause failure per unit surface area. Higher means higher force before failure.

@AccidentalDisassembly: Noted and acknowledged on the previous page that it was noted and acknowledged the page before that as a known issue that was fixed in the dev build. Read / search the topic before posting, please.

[AccidentalDisassembly]

Assuming that this was a problem with Hangar specifically, I searched for Ferram/FAR/etc. and Hangar. That produced precisely nothing useful, sorry.

[Camacha]

Forgive me if I am asking the obvious, but is a setting of more than 30 on the control surface deflection possible? I know this is typically ill advised, but in my current project it might actually help.

[Wanderfound]

Forgive me if I am asking the obvious, but is a setting of more than 30 on the control surface deflection possible? I know this is typically ill advised, but in my current project it might actually help.

Not without back-end hacking that I know of, but you could probably get the same effect by using maximum deflection flaps/spoilers and hooking them to action group toggles.

[yohuan]

@yohuan: You go into the FerramAerospaceResearch.cfg and remove the block that reduces engine thrust by 1/2, and then you don't complain about having too much thrust ever.

Thanks. But i just wanted to buff a little, thought half was abit too much so i made it 0.65.

[Morhem]

Excuse me, Im kind of a newbie, but.. In vanilla KSP, I slapped the first available career rocket: cockpit, first SRB, and a parashute, and it went 10 km straight up. After installing Ferram (only ferram, no other mods), same 3-part design shot upwars like a blazing meteor, piercing atmosphere, and stopping on, about, 400 km mark in space.

Is this normal? 0_o

[tetryds]

Excuse me, Im kind of a newbie, but.. In vanilla KSP, I slapped the first available career rocket: cockpit, first SRB, and a parashute, and it went 10 km straight up. After installing Ferram (only ferram, no other mods), same 3-part design shot upwars like a blazing meteor, piercing atmosphere, and stopping on, about, 400 km mark in space.

Is this normal? 0_o

Yep, it is normal.

[forsaken1111]

Excuse me, Im kind of a newbie, but.. In vanilla KSP, I slapped the first available career rocket: cockpit, first SRB, and a parashute, and it went 10 km straight up. After installing Ferram (only ferram, no other mods), same 3-part design shot upwars like a blazing meteor, piercing atmosphere, and stopping on, about, 400 km mark in space.

Is this normal? 0_o

Stock KSP models the atmosphere as something which could be described as a dense soup. You lose a lot of energy to air resistance. Every part on your rocket causes drag regardless of its shape or whether it is shielded (by fairings for example). This means that putting a nosecone on or something like that actually hurts your rocket performance in stock.

FAR actually models the aerodynamics much more accurately, so an aerodynamic rocket will experience much less resistance and thus lose much less energy to air resistance.

[Morhem]

I get that, but it just seem overpowered, that I can go to orbit instantly, on something resembling a firecracker.

[tetryds]

I get that, but it just seem overpowered, that I can go to orbit instantly, on something resembling a firecracker.

Because KSP rockets are overpowered, IIRC.

[forsaken1111]

That is what happens when you apply realism to only one aspect of an unrealistic game. You have a realistic aerodynamics model but not realistic rockets or planetary scale.

Use the same rocket with an earth-sized kerbin and you wouldn't get to orbit with just a single SRB.

[Motokid600]

I get that, but it just seem overpowered, that I can go to orbit instantly, on something resembling a firecracker.

Get Ferram's KIDS mod.

And then experiment with what settings you like best.