[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[John FX]

Hey, Ferram. I think I may have some issue with FAR.

It hasn't done this before I started playing again about a month ago. I am using the latest official FAR version.

The issue in the game itself is that on certain actions(I have not been able to exactly reproduce when it happens), the UI starts blinking when moving the camera, or just straight out disappears. That is only the default UI elements, stuff like MJ windows does not disappear.

When this starts happening I open the KSP Debug window, and it is spammed with these: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8iudtqx7w9ck9zw/Screenshot%202014-10-05%2010.49.19.png?dl=0

Then, thecking the output_log I found these:

(Filename:  Line: -1)

ArgumentException: Value does not fall within the expected range.
  at ferram4.FARControlSys.OnDestroy () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at ferram4.FARControlSys.OnGUI () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at (wrapper delegate-invoke) Callback:invoke_void__this__ ()

  at (wrapper delegate-invoke) Callback:invoke_void__this__ ()

  at RenderingManager.OnGUI () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

EDIT: Forgot to mention, that quicksaving and reloading fixes the issue...until it appears again.

I get this too. IIRC it is fixed in the dev version although the dev version has other issues...

[BudgetHedgehog]

IIRC it is fixed in the dev version although the dev version has other issues...

Yes, the dev build fixed this and lot of other bugs. What issues have you found with it? It's been pretty stable for me.

[spaceman1999]

My parachutes keep vanishing they will deploy for a fraction of a second but then vanish/break/go red in the staging bar. I am playing with FAR and DREC and I don't think that it is a DREC problem because I deploy my chutes after reentry.

[John FX]

Yes, the dev build fixed this and lot of other bugs. What issues have you found with it? It's been pretty stable for me.

So I just downloaded the dev version from the repo page and tried to launch a craft (solid 1st stage twr 2, 2000Dv) and my first stage got me to 12km with an an Ap of 17km at a speed of 350m/s.

This was disappointing to say the least.

I reverted to the last released version (14.1.1a) and launched the same craft and got an Ap of 62km at a speed of 1250m/s with the first stage.

Is this change meant to happen?

@John FX: Yeah, messed up on a push to the repo. I'll get that fixed quick.

This one. I am surprised nobody else has reported it. It was pretty major for me.

Very stable but nerfed my SRB in atmo.

[DaMichel]

Ferram4 uploads new code every couple of days ... that was just bad luck for you.

The version from today seems fine. I just updated and didn't notice anything out of the ordinary.

@spaceman1999: I'd still check the DRE thread. They released a new version very recently and IIRC i read something about burning up parachutes. Stuff going red in the staging bar probably means that that there is some overheating going on. What does F3 say?

Edited October 5, 2014 by DaMichel

[John FX]

Might have been fixed then although the version number seems the same as the one I had with issues (14.1.2)

I`ll see if it has been done on the sly.

Am I going to the right place for the Dev version?

https://github.com/ferram4/Ferram-Aerospace-Research

I`m downloading the .zip from there. Is that the right file? (Git still confuses me a little)

EDIT : The version of the .zip I can download from GitHub says it is 14.1.0 which is lower than the one on the OP. Not sure if I have the right file. Will check to see if it has the same issues.

EDIT 2 : It does not have the issue I was suffering from. I`ll stick with this one until I find out anything new.

Edited October 5, 2014 by John FX

[DaMichel]

Well, there is the button on the right which says "Download as ZIP". This should give you master.zip which should always contain the current repository snapshot.

[John FX]

Well, there is the button on the right which says "Download as ZIP". This should give you master.zip which should always contain the current repository snapshot.

My apologies, I was confusing myself. When I saw the numbers 14, 1, and 0 in the .version I mentally put them in that order (14.1.0, I blame firefox) when in fact I should have been seeing them as 0.14.1.x

[NathanKell]

Ferram doesn't update the version number until official release. There's been like *two months* of commits, don't think you're getting some old version from git

[John FX]

Ferram doesn't update the version number until official release. There's been like *two months* of commits, don't think you're getting some old version from git

I think I am used to the dev process of sarbian (mechjeb) where every commit has its own number (we are currently on 335) and releases get an update to the main version which is released with every KSP version (we are currently on 2.3.1)

Makes it a lot easier to see what is going on.

[taniwha]

I think I am used to the dev process of sarbian (mechjeb) where every commit has its own number (we are currently on 335) and releases get an update to the main version which is released with every KSP version (we are currently on 2.3.1)

Makes it a lot easier to see what is going on.

I do this for EL and MFT. I'm not sure what Sarbian does, but I get git to generate my version strings for me: I set a tag to something like v4.2.3, and if on that release, the version string is 4.2.3, but otherwise it's 4.2.3.commitspasttag-hash(-dirty). I then display this any windows.

[Baughn]

I've been trying to start a game with FAR and KSAEA. The latter changes the tech tree so there are no rockets at first; you start with (non-space-capable) planes and go from there.

The problem is, the only components I have in the starting node are..

- Structural fuselage and cockpit.

- Jet fuel

- Jet engine

- Intakes

- One tail fin and two varieties of winglets, one of which is the delta and thus controllable.

- Wheels.

Using these, I've had a hell of a time building a stable airplane. In practice, they always end up uncontrollable, even when they look somewhat like a real airplane; either they won't lift off at all (if I stick all the wings on the back of the plane; no prizes for guessing why), or they're aerodynamically unstable and start tumbling at the smallest excuse--and then the wings fall off. Sometimes, if I keep their speed down and never find an angle of attack larger than about five degrees, they're semi-controllable.

The explosions are fun, but I'm seeing too many of them. So, my question: Is there any way, with just those parts, to build a workable airplane?

Edited October 6, 2014 by Baughn

[tetryds]

I've been trying to start a game with FAR and KSAEA. The latter changes the tech tree so there are no rockets at first; you start with (non-space-capable) planes and go from there.

The problem is, the only components I have in the starting node are..

- Structural fuselage and cockpit.

- Jet fuel

- Jet engine

- Intakes

- One tail fin and two varieties of winglets, one of which is the delta and thus controllable.

- Wheels.

Using these, I've had a hell of a time building a stable airplane. In practice, they always end up uncontrollable, even when they look somewhat like a real airplane; either they won't lift off at all (if I stick all the wings on the back of the plane; no prizes for guessing why), or they're aerodynamically unstable and start tumbling at the smallest excuse--and then the wings fall off. Sometimes, if I keep their speed down and never find an angle of attack larger than about five degrees, they're semi-controllable.

The explosions are fun, but I'm seeing too many of them. So, my question: Is there any way, with just those parts, to build a workable airplane?

Please specify which winglets are available at the begin.

Yes it is pretty possible to make a plane fly only with those parts, just need to know exactly which wing parts it comes with to put one together.

[Baughn]

Please specify which winglets are available at the begin.

Yes it is pretty possible to make a plane fly only with those parts, just need to know exactly which wing parts it comes with to put one together.

The AV-T1, AV-R8 and Tail Fin.

If it's supposed to be possible, then I think something's wrong. I absolutely can't accomplish the task. Might be some other mod interfering.

[tetryds]

Here is it:

It costs 18k and flies very well.

But I guess you meant Smal Gear Bay instead of wheels, so this model is cheaper:

Since the previous one needs more wings to take off at slower speeds and not break the wheels.

This one costs a bit less than 15k.

These aircraft have a lot of flexing on the wings, but nothing that SAS can't handle.

The first model is more resistent since the wing flexing helps preventing them from getting riped off.

So if you actually have gear bays just replace the current wheels for them instead.

Edit: btw, main wing control surfaces is roll only, tail ones are pitch only and the stabilizer on the back is yaw only.

Edited October 6, 2014 by tetryds

[Baughn]

Wait, what? How did you build a wing?

EDIT: Also, that doesn't look like the Tail Fin I've got.

Edited October 6, 2014 by tetryds

[tetryds]

Wait, what? How did you build a wing?

EDIT: Also, that doesn't look like the Tail Fin I've got.

Just place one wing piece on the top of another.

You cannot place anything on the top of mobile wing parts, but you can do it on every fixed wing piece.

Well, then I will try the mod and make a plane using it, just a moment.

[S1gmoid]

I absolutely adore this plugin.

It really makes the game for me, the main thing that's been putting me off about KSP for months have been the idiotic drag model and the asparagus pancake rockets people were posting on Youtube... (Those ARE kind of hilarious, and I'm sure a lot of fun, but it just felt wrong.)

So anyway... while I have kind of grasped how to build a rocket that flies well, and am getting better and better at doing a real gravity turn, I'm really curious about learning all the cool plane design stuff about transonic and supersonic stability, and all that... and so far I haven't really found a good explanation of what all the stuff happening on the FAR gui in the SPH are. Also I'm curious if there's a generally accepted textbook or online resource to learn more about the scientific background of all this.

The FAR wiki is kind of underdeveloped at this time.

Thanks!

[Baughn]

Just place one wing piece on the top of another.

You cannot place anything on the top of mobile wing parts, but you can do it on every fixed wing piece.

Well, then I will try the mod and make a plane using it, just a moment.

Sorry, I have a lot more mods installed than just that.

I'll figure it out. Starting with FAR-only and bisecting my mod setup, if necessary.

[tetryds]

Sorry, I have a lot more mods installed than just that.

I'll figure it out. Starting with FAR-only and bisecting my mod setup, if necessary.

Well, that explains a lot then.

Anyway, I noticed that on the career you start with only 10k, so I made a plane within that budget to fly with the starting pieces of the mod:

http://i.imgur.com/B051Qp8.png

So that is the very first vehicle I launched on the career, costing 9550 Funds.

But yeah, you can stack up fixed wing parts to make bigger ones whenever needed.

[Baughn]

You may start with only 10k, but you can get advances on a lot of non-timed contracts. In practice it's more like 35k.

[Wanderfound]

Wait, what? How did you build a wing?

EDIT: Also, that doesn't look like the Tail Fin I've got.

BTW, it's also possible to do perfectly good winglet-only aircraft without stacking them:

Lifting-body fuselages do make that easier, though.

[IronicBlade]

Hi Ferram,

First of all, thank you very much for the awesome mod - definitely takes the game to a whole new level!

Previously in this thread, there are mentions of people attempting to use Infernal Robotics to vary their lifting surface geometry.

I've been using the folding wing aircraft in the below imgur album and have noted the following behavior:

• Launching the aircraft, wings set unfolded in the SPH, plane performs as expected
  
• Launching aircraft, wings set folded in SPH - if I stage away the booster and then unfold the wings, the plane behaves like the wings are still folded (much like a lawn dart)
  
• Launching aircraft, wings set folded in SPH - If I unfold the wings, then stage away the booster, the plane behaves as expected.
  

I realize that Infernal Robotics is not your mod and do not expect support for my shenanigans. Just wanted others to be aware of the workaround - configure your lifting surfaces for flight before staging away your booster.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Finally, thanks again for all the hard work!

Edited October 7, 2014 by IronicBlade

[ferram4]

Alright, v0.14.2 is up, with a ton of new features and 0.25 compatibility.

As a note, FAR will now disable itself on win64 due to the previous stability issues that have only worsened with the 0.25 update.

[AndreyATGB]

I suppose the new range simulation works with AJE? That was annoying when using it, previously MJ would give accurate burn time estimates but with AJE it was basically eye balling the fuel required.