[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[Wanderfound]

Okay, I just pushed stuff to the dev build that makes it not broken. Should be fine now.

Much better; thanks.

I'd become frustrated to the point that I gave up and tried flying in stock air; that lasted about five minutes before I shut the game off in disgust. Can't fly without Ferram.

[Jovus]

Silly question. How does one download the dev version, since there's no GitHub release?

[Wanderfound]

Silly question. How does one download the dev version, since there's no GitHub release?

See post #6130

BTW, happy Wanderfound again:

Been hanging out to have a proper go with the new parts ever since .25 dropped. Still not flying quite as smooth as before, but that's probably just a matter of adapting to the new wings.

[Captain Woof]

When I install FAR (and no other mods), the mass of my space planes somehow increase and the thrust of my jets decrease. I wouldn't mind that much if it were a little bit, but my work in progress space plane, the RhiNOX, weights 88 tonnes without FAR, and 274 tonnes with it! Anybody know which config file I need to edit or mess around with or how to fix it? I think my spaceplane would work great with FAR, but sadly I cant use it... For those who want a little sneak peak of what I made with the new parts:

[BudgetHedgehog]

Yes, FAR tweaks the mass of the wings (you're using wings as structural elements...) to make them more realistic and also lowers the thrust of the engines because they're originally designed to fly through something similar to syrup - with actual air, they don't need to be as powerful.

The config file you need to edit is FerramAerospaceResearch.cfg. Have fun

[Wanderfound]

When I install FAR (and no other mods), the mass of my space planes somehow increase and the thrust of my jets decrease. I wouldn't mind that much if it were a little bit, but my work in progress space plane, the RhiNOX, weights 88 tonnes without FAR, and 274 tonnes with it! Anybody know which config file I need to edit or mess around with or how to fix it? I think my spaceplane would work great with FAR, but sadly I cant use it... For those who want a little sneak peak of what I made with the new parts:

http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s675/Captain_Woof/screenshot6_zpsf89c5fd4.png

FAR halves the power of jet engines and increases the default mass of wings (tweakable down to 1/100th of default at the price of a corresponding loss in strength, in the latest dev builds that should hit the official release soon-ish).

But, even if it weren't for that, your plane ain't gonna fly in FAR. Using wing pieces as body panels generally doesn't work in realistic aero; the aerodynamic properties of your plane are going to be all over the place.

It's not that big a ship, though; you should be able to replicate the same basic size and shape using fuselage pieces and cargo bays if you want to.

[endl]

hi all, so im trying to adapt my knowledge of SSTO design to far and im getting stability problems i normally dont get when building these things. i.e. i have the correct COL/COM alignment decent TWR and a good wing surface area. if anyone can offer some advice on how to design more far friendly configurations id appreciate it.

[Captain Woof]

Thanks for the reply! The plane is actually quite a bit bigger than it looks. The body is about the same size as the 5M parts and there are actually ~300 wings, but I just really like making planes out of the wings because they look sooooo much cooler! Besides, now I can store rovers in the hull.

Anyways, I better go back to messing about and breaking the game! XD

[Wanderfound]

hi all, so im trying to adapt my knowledge of SSTO design to far and im getting stability problems i normally dont get when building these things. i.e. i have the correct COL/COM alignment decent TWR and a good wing surface area. if anyone can offer some advice on how to design more far friendly configurations id appreciate it.

http://i.imgur.com/UT1QxOF.jpg

1) Make sure you're using the latest dev build (look to post #6130 for where to find it), there have been some bugs to sort out that caused some craft to fly poorly.

2) See my building guide at http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/90747-Kerbodyne-SSTO-Division-Omnibus-Thread?p=1353891&viewfull=1#post1353891

BTW, have you tested to make sure that those lateral RAPIERs aren't going to melt your wings off when they switch to rocket mode? I know you can get away with sticking a linear RCS port in the middle of one, but I'd be worried about gimballed thrust hitting the wings.

[gardocki]

Anyone else having problems with control surfaces not moving at all? I've tried the official release as well as the latest dev build and nothing's working. Granted I have about a million mods installed so it might be playing poorly with one of them, but if I remove FAR everything works fine.

EDIT: Stock install with just FAR has the same problem.

Edited October 15, 2014 by gardocki

[Wanderfound]

Anyone else having problems with control surfaces not moving at all? I've tried the official release as well as the latest dev build and nothing's working. Granted I have about a million mods installed so it might be playing poorly with one of them, but if I remove FAR everything works fine.

First suspect: is one of your mods Kerbpaint? It has an antique copy of Module Manager hidden in a subfolder that messes with FAR.

[gardocki]

Okay just tried it on a stock install. Same problem, control surfaces won't move.

[gardocki]

First suspect: is one of your mods Kerbpaint? It has an antique copy of Module Manager hidden in a subfolder that messes with FAR.

No. I tried it stock with just the Module Manager 2.5.0 that is included in FAR and still have the same problem. NEAR does the same thing.

[blowfish]

I'm still having the issue of inline parts creating drag as if they are blunt surfaces. A fuel tank near the back of my plane is creating more drag than the nose

Also, I'm not sure if this is a Ferram of PWings issue, but is it normal for the CoL to not shift as the wingtip is moved backward?

Both on the dev version downloaded just a few minutes ago.

[ferram4]

@gardocki: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/92229-How-To-Get-Support-%28READ-FIRST%29

@blowfish: The part-tinting feature is quite weird; I'm not sure exactly how good it is for what I'm trying to do. You should check and see if the tinting actually lines up with the Cl / Cd values of the parts.

I'd also suspect that pWings is the cause there. pWings is what is supposed to send messages when it changes shape.

And version 0.14.3 is out. All the details in the changelog, as always.

[gardocki]

@gardocki: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/92229-How-To-Get-Support-%28READ-FIRST%29

Thanks. I realized that the FAQ now says the build is disabled in x64, so I assume that's my problem. Is that new? I don't remember having that issue with 0.24x.

[ferram4]

0.25's win64 is much more unstable than 0.24. This has been discussed multiple times throughout the thread.

[blowfish]

@blowfish: The part-tinting feature is quite weird; I'm not sure exactly how good it is for what I'm trying to do. You should check and see if the tinting actually lines up with the Cl / Cd values of the parts.

I'm monitoring the part drag force display as I take off. The fuel tank in question is creating dozens of kN of drag before I even leave the runway.

[JMFricks]

Thanks. I realized that the FAQ now says the build is disabled in x64, so I assume that's my problem. Is that new? I don't remember having that issue with 0.24x.

I, too just realized this. Just uninstall FAR if you want to play using 64bit. Even though it says its disabled for 64bit, I couldn't get any control surfaces to work until I uninstalled it.

[ferram4]

Good. Now check the drag coefficient. Reference area can make all the difference, and all that drag might be flat-plate drag.

[GabeTeuton]

I posted this in the Procedural Wings thread... Though i guess someone looking at this one may give me a piece of advice, evan ferram itself !

Guys i just have a question... even with this amazing wings... though it improved stability a notch, i'm still having serious issues making even the simplier SSTO, with rapier engines, and with dual engines (jet + any other LF+O engine)... I just don't know, i managed in previous versions to make more or less successful SSTO's... but with the current version I just can't, they won't make it... and i believe i'm pretty experienced when it comes to gameplay... Though I watched dozens of tutorials and I know most of the rules that apply to building an ssto... I know FAR was changed to better reflect real life aerodynamics... Is it harder with the current version or am I doing something clearly wrong???

Basic rules i follow=

1) CoM slightly ahead of CoL

2) Control Surfaces only managing the needed movement (pitch or roll or yaw, could do pitch and roll or yaw)

3) Most times delta wings or some kind of modification of it...

4) Ascent profile, as fast as you can until 10k +/-reached, then decrease the AoA to gain as much speed as possible while still raising altitude a little bit, when engines are about to choke, throtle down and keep doing it until you have to change mode or switch engine, by then you should have around 1.3/1.5 m/s at least... then circularize, blah blah...

Am i that bad when it comes to building a SSTO????

Well i continued to work on it, and I got better at the design i guess... the best i got was getting to 25k, after that it just starts to stall in every possible way... it's not a flat spin only, or just one deviation... basicaly i loose control of it... entirely... I tried throttling back, switching to rockets but so far i have no success... And if by any chance i try to hit the rockets before that critical point i end up not having enough fuel to perform the orbital manouvers... Tried different combinations of engines and fuels amounts (including oxidyzer), turbojet+nuclear, turbojet+LVs, and turbojets+rapier, the most successful one was the last one... The airplane works well without ASAS/capsule torque, i can use the Trim function to fly it perfectly, deciding the ascent rate almost by unit... and when it comes to speed i'm at 24km +/- altitude and 1600 m/s, aim for 20/30º pitch and switch to rocket mode, SAS on, and I use all my fuel before achieving anything...

I'm not sure but i'm feeling it has to do with the nerfed thrust but i'm not sure if i want to edit the files, 'cause it's supposed to work that nerfed way...

The mods I'm currently using are=

000_Toolbar

Better Science Labs

Chatterer

EditorExtensions

FerramAerospaceResearch

KAS

KerbalEngineer

KSPLua

MagicSmokeIndustries

NavyFish

OpenResourceSystem

ORSResourcePack

PartCatalog

Procedural Dynamics

ProceduralFairings

RCSBuildAid

RemoteTech

StationScience

TACFuelBalancer

TACLifeSupport

TreeLoader

TriggerTech

WarpPlugin

(some of those folders correspond to only one mod, like Interstellar)

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http://i.imgur.com/aSVX6LI.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/B6U9jWq.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/AQLW0eu.jpg

[NathanKell]

Same response I gave in the pwings thread:

That plane will have *severe* mach tuck. Add some canards, and then shift the main wings back a little bit to compensate for the CoP moving forward. Also make sure canards and inner control surfaces are Pitch only, and outer ones are roll only.

Also needs way more vertical tail.

Finally, you might want a higher degree of sweep; that level of sweep would be best for something that hangs around 0.85-0.9 Mach, not supersonic.

EDIT TO ADD: you have little enough authority as it is, with the only elevators so close to the CoM.

[GabeTeuton]

Same response I gave in the pwings thread:

That plane will have *severe* mach tuck. Add some canards, and then shift the main wings back a little bit to compensate for the CoP moving forward. Also make sure canards and inner control surfaces are Pitch only, and outer ones are roll only.

Also needs way more vertical tail.

Finally, you might want a higher degree of sweep; that level of sweep would be best for something that hangs around 0.85-0.9 Mach, not supersonic.

EDIT TO ADD: you have little enough authority as it is, with the only elevators so close to the CoM.

Gonna work on that right now, though i'm not sure how to add more vertical tail, should i use larger "wings" vertically? more of those instead of just 2? place them more outwards from the horizontal center?

The control surfaces are set as you said, i learnt that long time ago, though i thought that the elevators should be near the COM, should i place both control surfaces (pitch and roll) nearer to the wing tip instead of the COM then?

[blowfish]

The control surfaces are set as you said, i learnt that long time ago, though i thought that the elevators should be near the COM, should i place both control surfaces (pitch and roll) nearer to the wing tip instead of the COM then?

If you put control surfaces near the CoM they're not going to do anything (same as thrust vectoring). Put pitch control away from the CoM along the length of the craft (i.e. canards) and roll control wide of the CoM (i.e. at the wingtips).

[blowfish]

Good. Now check the drag coefficient. Reference area can make all the difference, and all that drag might be flat-plate drag.

Well, re-attaching the part seems to have fixed it so I'm guessing it was just attached wrong and that it was just the flat-plate drag.