[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[DuxDucisHodiernus]

@DuxDucisHodiernus: Considering that this craft is obviously such horrible issues, maybe you could post the craft file so I can diagnose it. Obviously, something is wrong, but without the actual test case I can't do anything.

Now, I think what might be happening is that the voxel isn't properly recognizing that that particular surface is actually on the outside, but until you post the craft, all I can do is guess.

And finally, the drag settings only affect transonic and supersonic speeds, and don't do jack to control surfaces. So no, it's not that.

Heres the craft. Mods: Ferram(ofc) Might have used some KAX parts(Kerbal Aerospace Extention or whatever its called) in there(not sure). And I use two lights from B9 for esthetic purposes(dont know if KSP cares if youre missing parts or not). Other than that i think most stuff is stock.

Also not sure what file sharing website you prefer, so just chose some random one that seemed to work.

maybe because it does many things stock doesn't even consider, and while its at it, ferram ripped its guts out for this version and replaced it with something vastly superior to both stock and previous versions.....of course its going to have issues. Its damned near a 1.0 release of a new mode this update was so significant. Thats a big part of why it took as long as it did after the update, and why it still has teething problems, find me a 1.0 release for something this complex that didn't have issues.

Stock started with not even knowing how drag worked..... to still not really knowing how drag works. Far has issues because it's not running full fluid dynamics, be happy, it wouldn't be a slide show, it'd be a picture frame that might update hourly if your machine is powerful. Approximations have costs, usually in the form of things they ignore, and sometimes you have to build those things in a less intensive manner, which means improperly, but close enough, and that means more edge cases. Edge cases mean problems, and look what we have here....

And be patient, impatience doesn't get you an answer faster, we are here to post or we are not, your editing in anyone? doesn't coerce us to sign in any sooner, check this thread, and answer it. Its simply wasted, sometimes grating, at worst annoying.

Wow, you're really taking me way too seriously. I'm not trying to be offensive towards ferram or anyone else. If I got impatient and wrote "anyone?" in my post and it offended some of you, then I'm sorry. But IMO, I don't see why its big of an enough thing to be even the slightliest bit upset about.

Edited May 15, 2015 by DuxDucisHodiernus

[Hodo]

Heres the craft. Mods: Ferram(ofc) Might have used some KAX parts(Kerbal Aerospace Extention or whatever its called) in there(not sure). And I use two lights from B9 for esthetic purposes(dont know if KSP cares if youre missing parts or not). Other than that i think most stuff is stock.

KSP wont load the craft if it has parts from a pack that person does not have. And I think the B9 parts maybe the cause of your problems as B9 hasnt been updated for KSP1.0.2 let alone the NuFAR.

[DuxDucisHodiernus]

KSP wont load the craft if it has parts from a pack that person does not have. And I think the B9 parts maybe the cause of your problems as B9 hasnt been updated for KSP1.0.2 let alone the NuFAR.

I only copied the two lights from b9 mod, since there arent good omnidirectional lights in stock. So um, no it should hopefully make no difference since the only b9 parts that are even in my game are the two single ones i copied from the mod. And those two are LAMPS. just simple Lights. Nothing particularly complex.

I can remove the lights, simple enough.

edit: Oh yeah also use antennas from remotetech. Will try to remove all unneccesary dependencies for a version right now, and upload that one too.

edit:2 OK new version here without lights or antennas. I think there might have been a wing part from KAX though, but am not sure.

Edited May 15, 2015 by DuxDucisHodiernus

[DianonForce]

@DianonForce: An issue related to this was fixed with Fanno. You are running Fanno, correct?

Yes, fresh KSP install and fresh download of FAR_0_15_1_Fanno.zip, nothing else.

I have made a testcraft if you wish to try. It has stock only parts.

Edited May 15, 2015 by DianonForce

[blowfish]

I only copied the two lights from b9 mod, since there arent good omnidirectional lights in stock. So um, no it should hopefully make no difference since the only b9 parts that are even in my game are the two single ones i copied from the mod. And those two are LAMPS. just simple Lights. Nothing particularly complex.

I can remove the lights, simple enough.

edit: Oh yeah also use antennas from remotetech. Will try to remove all unneccesary dependencies for a version right now, and upload that one too.

You're right that the lights shouldn't matter, but for the sake of bugfixing you should probably try to remove any odd dependencies before posting a craft file.

[DuxDucisHodiernus]

You're right that the lights shouldn't matter, but for the sake of bugfixing you should probably try to remove any odd dependencies before posting a craft file.

Have done so, also tested it just to make sure after doing so, and the problem was still there sadly. Anyways here is the updated craft file with less dependencies.

[ferram4]

@DianonForce: Then I need full reproduction steps and a full copy of your log after causing the bug.

@DuxDucisHodiernus: I seem to be able to reproduce it; I think it is a case where it's failing to realize that the surface is actually on the outside, and I need to handle a special case for spoilers that sit flat against the body normally (in which case, they don't behave like wings) but when they're deployed, they should, and it's treating the spoiler as if it were hidden in a cargo bay. I have a few ideas for how to fix this, and it should be fairly straightforward. For now, you should be able to fix it by moving the surface a little bit away from the vehicle so that it bumps out a bit more.

[DianonForce]

@DianonForce: Then I need full reproduction steps and a full copy of your log after causing the bug.

Wich files did you exactly need? And what you mean with reproduction steps?

Edited May 15, 2015 by DianonForce

[DuxDucisHodiernus]

@DianonForce:

@DuxDucisHodiernus: I seem to be able to reproduce it; I think it is a case where it's failing to realize that the surface is actually on the outside, and I need to handle a special case for spoilers that sit flat against the body normally (in which case, they don't behave like wings) but when they're deployed, they should, and it's treating the spoiler as if it were hidden in a cargo bay. I have a few ideas for how to fix this, and it should be fairly straightforward. For now, you should be able to fix it by moving the surface a little bit away from the vehicle so that it bumps out a bit more.

Oh, nice. Also, hey, might as well add an exception for flaps as well(maybe all control surfaces?), i have several flaps which sit quite snugly towards the bottom of my wing and im not sure if they're working fully or not.

[ferram4]

@DianonForce: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/92229-How-To-Get-Support-%28READ-FIRST%29 <- halfway down this post for the logs, and also example reproduction steps. The more detail, the better.

@DuxDucisHodiernus: The exception is already for all surfaces, the problem is that I think the surface is being voxelized before the fuselage, and so when the fuselage comes along it overwrites the surface. Sometimes. Normally the exact balance of where things go isn't so important as long as everything is accounted for, except in this particular case, it seems.

All it actually requires if the surface is flat along the vehicle is that it deflects a certain amount. It's just realizing that it's flat on the vehicle.

Edited May 15, 2015 by ferram4

[Kitspace]

Got some more really weird airspeed data.

I will try to take a few pictures of what is happening and provide a detailed description tomorrow.

[DianonForce]

KSP: 1.0.2 Windows 32bit

Problem: Solarpanel, Engine and other Parts under a faring are stowed if i jetison the fairing in space, but when i jetision them in athmosphere the are not stowed.

Mods installed:

FAR 0.15.1 Fanno

no other mods

Reproduction steps:

i add a craft file with stock only parts to the zip file with the output.log. Go to launchpad, try to jettison the faring and try to extend the solarpanel (should work). Start the rocket and fly above 70km over kerbin (space) and try the same, the solarpanels

wouldn't extend and you got a message that they stowed. Same message you get, if you decuple the last engine stage and try manualy aktivate the engine.

Log:

Log and craft file

Edited May 15, 2015 by DianonForce

[Marogo]

I unfortunately don't have reproduction steps for this but I've noticed the following with FAR and 1.02 32 bit. Sometimes if I go into a sub orbital trajectory and return, I get zero air drag, the 're-entry' effects don't work and I can't slow down via air drag. If I quick save, close and reopen the game and then load the quick save, it works again, and then breaks a little bit later with another launch.

[Shnyrik]

Solarpanel, Engine and other Parts under a faring are stowed if i jetison the fairing in space

Yes, noticed the same thing too. But they work well, when I put engines and fairings on different stages. I mean, with the first "stage" action I decopule fairings and previous stage and then with another "stage" action I activate engines.

[BudgetHedgehog]

KSP: 1.0.2 Windows 32bit

Problem: Solarpanel, Engine and other Parts under a faring are stowed if i jetison the fairing in space, but when i jetision them in athmosphere the are not stowed.

I've noticed the exact same thing. I stage the fairings away and decouple the payload in the same stage. Then no engines on the payload will activate because they are still classed at 'stowed'. A quicksave and reload fixes it though.

[DianonForce]

This is my stageing, like you see, the faring is in stage 3, than followed by a decupler and stage 1 is the engine.

EDIT:

hit spacebar for next stage, faring are jetison

try to extend solarpanels by rightclicking

hit spacebar for decupler and on mor time fpor next stage to activate engine

I've noticed the exact same thing. I stage the fairings away and decouple the payload in the same stage. Then no engines on the payload will activate because they are still classed at 'stowed'. A quicksave and reload fixes it though.

ok, you right, quicksafe and reload fix this bug, but then the faring betwen the decupler an the pod will disapeer (see screnshot below).

Edited May 15, 2015 by DianonForce

[ferram4]

@DianonForce: Confirmed, fixed in the dev build. Turns out I was being dumb and thinking that returning from a method was safe when air density = 0 it wasn't. So I separated that into its own method and everything is fine now.

[DianonForce]

Yeha, thanks for the quick fixing!

[jrandom]

@DianonForce: Confirmed, fixed in the dev build. Turns out I was being dumb and thinking that returning from a method was safe when air density = 0 it wasn't. So I separated that into its own method and everything is fine now.

Would that be the latest Master branch?

[ferram4]

Yep. More fixes should be there as well. Hopefully I can resolve whatever strange "cannot voxelize" issue is going on and then push another bugfix release.

[jrandom]

Also, a feature request (which you are free to ignore if this annoys you!):

I know you hate the CoL marker, but back when it represented a center of lift it was phenomenally useful during the initial design iterations of an aircraft. But now the CoL can change depending on AoA and velocity and I was wondering if instead of having a useless center of pressure marker, maybe you could add a toggleable window with an AoA slider and a Mach slider and the CoL for those two settings would be the position displayed. This would be super handy, as while the stability derivatives are great for fine-tuning a design, it's a bit cumbersome when playing around with fuselage/layout ideas. A CoL w/ easy-access AoA/Mach sliders would allow for fast iteration and a very feedback-heavy system for trying out new things.

[ferram4]

It's currently coded as an aerodynamic center, i.e., as close to a center of lift as I can get it to be. It can still shift a bit due to the assumptions used in finding its location not being perfect, but I can't make it any more accurate than it already is.

It hasn't been a center of pressure at all, simply because that really is damn useless.

[jrandom]

Ah. Well... I was mistaken then. Happens a lot.

I still stand by my request since a quick way to visually see how the CoL is affected by AoA and velocity would be just all sorts of cool. Not that I expect anything, just expressing what I as a player would find useful and whatnot. FAR is a required mod for me, it's not like I can get rid of it. Ever.

[Gfurst]

Hey can some explain to me a bit of the inner workings of FAR? Just really wondering.

And had a bit of a crazy idea, you just treat wings as any other solid part, ie, thin shaped and long, won't it work with voxel system? I did noticed they are included the voxel in the editor.

[futrtrubl]

Hey can some explain to me a bit of the inner workings of FAR? Just really wondering.

And had a bit of a crazy idea, you just treat wings as any other solid part, ie, thin shaped and long, won't it work with voxel system? I did noticed they are included the voxel in the editor.

Wings are still special and require areo modules in their configs. For now.