[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[Frederf]

Stop including ModuleManager.dll with your releases please!

[Autochton]

You'll also need to work out how to transition to flight with your CoL forwards, because the plane is not going to help you at all...

Heh, I have on one memorable occasion had to try and click on fuel tanks on a plane in a flat spin after it entered the part of the atmosphere where its wings began biting air... I managed, got the fuel shifted to the forward tank, and then the thing stabilized and I could fly to an emergency landing.

[The Lone Wolfling]

Stop including ModuleManager.dll with your releases please!

Why?

(10char)

[Frederf]

Why?

(10char)

1. Imagine if every mod author did that. N copies of the .dll loaded with up to N different versions of it depending on which snapshot in time the modder grabbed.

2. The author of the .dll directly says not to.

[The Lone Wolfling]

1. Imagine if every mod author did that. N copies of the .dll loaded with up to N different versions of it depending on which snapshot in time the modder grabbed.

Which is why all mod authors (that I know of at least) include the dll in the root gamedata directory. Only one copy is loaded.

2. The author of the .dll directly says not to.

B.S.. I quote:

Plugin developers and other modders have my explicit permission to redistribute this dll with their own works, so long as you give credit to me and provide a URL back to this forum post.

Not to mention the following:

Mods using ModuleManager:

[snip]

FerramAerospaceResearch. (Official) - by ferram4

[Frederf]

Not all keep the dll in the root but even so there's a problem of version. The mod can be older than others. The order I apply mods using JSGME can determine which .dll I end up. A mod with dll included installed after can lower/change the version and break a mod or undo a fix that worked before. When files overwrite each other like that JSGME unnecessarily considers them co-dependent which makes it a complete pain to use JSGME as intended. It's madness.

Redistribute with does not mean distribute packaged within. It's just permission not suggested practice.

[ferram4]

@birrhan: What drag coefficient does the heat shield have when you're oriented retrograde for reentry? Right-click on the shield to see what drag value it has; that should determine if NathanKell's fix is working properly. If not, I don't know what to tell you. If the drag values are high enough then it's not a problem on my end; it is a Deadly Reentry problem and there's nothing I can do to fix it.

@Frederf: Yes, of course; I will stop including a dll absolutely necessary for my mod to function properly and ask everyone to find ialdabaoth's thread to download it from there, even though he said it is ok to redistribute it. There will be absolutely no instances of people coming here complaining that things don't work properly or that they need to do unnecessary work, no sirree.

I assume you're also gone after MechJeb, Damned Robotics, Damned Aerospace, and other mods in the past because they all used the MuMechLib.dll and it was so hard to figure out which one you should keep based on when the mos were released.

Also, you're using a third-party application to apply mods; why should I make things difficult for people not using an unnecessary application so that you can use it? This sounds like a problem better suited to support in the JSGME thread than here.

Edited July 21, 2013 by ferram4

[foamyesque]

So I'm probably looking at well over the 35â° I was using to have that work. Will have to run some sims.

Manipulating my CoM will be a trick, I think. I would have to shift fuel around different fuel tanks in order to do it... Would there be a problem, when doing this reentry, if the CoL ends up in front of the CoM for the duration of the braking maneuver, as long as I shift it forward once going to flight? Alternatively I will have to get a hold of TAC's fuel balancer mod, hope that'll sort it.

I've been dropping spaceplanes onto Eve with DRE and FAR for some time. I've found that the best approach is around 45-55 degrees (I usually choose 55), which stalls out all your wings and slows you down in a hurry. Things to be aware of, though:

1. If your CoL is not bang on (or better, in front of) your CoM in the VAB, hypersonic flight is going to pull it back far enough that your nose will drop without active countermeasures (RCS works pretty well).

2. As atmospheric effects kick in but your aerilons are stalled out, you're very, very vulnerable to a spiral dive. Counteract with RCS or twist your aerilons to angle downwards so that they unstall faster.

3. Canards work better than tails. Why? Because when they're stalled out they pull your CoL way forward, hence allowing you to keep your nose up. Unstalling them can be tricky; I tend to give them a high enough deflection range that I can actually deflect them clear out of the stall regime whilst my main wings remain stalled. Gotta be really careful coming in for landing, though.

[Spanier]

what happend to the LV-1 engine, it doesn't work in space as it should (as predicted from MechJeb)?

[ferram4]

Spanier, FAR doesn't change anything with the LV-1; that's either a problem with another mod or MechJeb is wrong.

[Spanier]

ok, now that's weird, but I think I just wait up until 0.21 and restart everything

[p1t1o]

Hi all,

sorry if this is too much of a no0b question, I searched the thread and could only find a sideways reference to it.

I installed FAR and ended up with a lot of duplicate parts - not everything, but definitely the stock engines & SRBs, it also affected mod-added parts too with some B9 parts being duplicated too, and Im sure much more besides - this was the only reference to the problem I could find:

It works (at least for rockets), but if you just naively install it, you'll wind up with a bunch of duplicate parts. Also, the VAB (and probably SPH) panel can't be closed (in linux, anyway). I haven't done much more than launch a couple of rockets yet, so I can't comment on the SPH.

Anyone know whats causing this/how to prevent it?

Thanks

[foamyesque]

Spanier, FAR doesn't change anything with the LV-1; that's either a problem with another mod or MechJeb is wrong.

MechJeb works fine with the LV-1. I dunno what Spanier's problem is.

[Frederf]

@Frederf: Yes, of course; I will stop including a dll absolutely necessary for my mod to function properly and ask everyone to find ialdabaoth's thread to download it from there

I apologize. However integrating a specific version of a shared library which is under development into your package does carry a risk of error and I thought you should be aware.

[ialdabaoth]

I apologize. However integrating a specific version of a shared library which is under development into your package does carry a risk of error and I thought you should be aware.

Just FYI, ModuleManager is no longer under development; the latest version is considered "stable", and no new versions should be released unless a future version of KSP horribly breaks something. (This is one of the major reasons why I don't want to add wildcard functionality).

[birrhan]

@birrhan: What drag coefficient does the heat shield have when you're oriented retrograde for reentry? Right-click on the shield to see what drag value it has; that should determine if NathanKell's fix is working properly. If not, I don't know what to tell you. If the drag values are high enough then it's not a problem on my end; it is a Deadly Reentry problem and there's nothing I can do to fix it.

Relevant image:

http://i.imgur.com/HisUTDq.png

It has no drag value. No parts do. Like I said, this reeks of a software issue, but I am not a CE, so I don't know where to begin.

[asmi]

Relevant image:

http://i.imgur.com/HisUTDq.png

It has no drag value. No parts do. Like I said, this reeks of a software issue, but I am not a CE, so I don't know where to begin.

Well obviously there is no drag when there is no atmosphere...

[taniwha]

Heh, yeah. FAR nukes all drag related stuff when out of the atmosphere. There is no way to check if FAR is working without any air . Well, ok, there is one: turn on the wing leveler and/or the AoA limiter and try to orient your ship

[Lexif]

Relevant image:

http://i.imgur.com/HisUTDq.png

It has no drag value. No parts do. Like I said, this reeks of a software issue, but I am not a CE, so I don't know where to begin.

As I said in the other, relevant thread: You seem to be using the old version (1.3) that is not compatible with 0.20. I guess you got it from the Spaceport. Please go and download 2.3 from the DRE thread, and try again.

[theonegalen]

Hi, I've just installed FAR into a brand-new fresh install of KSP .20.2.etc, but I can't get it to work. I've followed the included instructions, unzipping the GameData and Ships folder into my KSP root folder and merging them with the folders already there. The new vehicles show up in the SPH and VAB no problem, but the FAR CAS button doesn't seem to exist, and neither does the in-flight UI. This is the first mod I've installed, so what am I doing wrong?

I did also try Firespitter's Planes and Propellers on a separate copy of KSP, which mostly worked, but didn't work completely either - no sounds, no animation.

I've been futzing with it for hours and I'm kind of fed up.

Edited July 23, 2013 by theonegalen
additional info

[theonegalen]

My apologies - double post.

Edited July 23, 2013 by theonegalen
double post.

[birrhan]

As I said in the other, relevant thread: You seem to be using the old version (1.3) that is not compatible with 0.20. I guess you got it from the Spaceport. Please go and download 2.3 from the DRE thread, and try again.

It seems to be buried in that thread, and any time ialdaboth says "download" he doesn't provide a link, not even on the main page. How in the seven hells does one acquire this? Google search terms "DRE 2.3 kerbal", "Deadly Reentry 2.3 Kerbal".

[birrhan]

It seems to be buried in that thread, and any time ialdaboth says "download" he doesn't provide a link, not even on the main page. How in the seven hells does one acquire this? Google search terms "DRE 2.3 kerbal", "Deadly Reentry 2.3 Kerbal".

nevermind, the slowest horse crosses the finish line.

Buried up top: in case anyone is slower than me (unlikely): https://github.com/Ialdabaoth/ModuleManager/blob/master/DeadlyReentry2.3.zip?raw=true

[ferram4]

@theonegalen: First, make sure that KSP is installed somewhere where it has the proper permissions to run; try running it as an administrator or making a new install with it in a directory that doesn't need special permissions like ProgramFiles does.

Make sure that there is a folder in your GameData folder called "FerramAerospaceResearch". If that exists, go into it and make sure that there is a "Plugin" folder with ferramaerospaceresearch.dll and ferramgraph.dll. Further, make sure that in the GameData root there is a file labelled "ModuleManager.dll". If one of those is missing, go back into the FAR zip and extract the files to the relevant location.

If all of those files are in the proper place, load up KSP, check to make sure that the problem hasn't magically fixed itself, and then quit. Go into the KSP_Data folder and find output_log.txt; upload that here so that I can go through it and find the problem.

[JunkyardDog]

I've been playing around with FAR past couple of days, and I like it. I really like it. Having to redesign everything is fun. Planes handle much better. But I'm going to uninstall it.

Why? Not sure. I'm guessing the more realistic portrayal of FAR combined with Kerbal's unrealistic scale means as long as you make correct, efficient and aerodynamic rockets or planes, they fly better, faster, and more stable than vanilla KSP. I was hoping flight would become harder but in fact has gotten easier.

In other words, I can get objects burst through the atmosphere and reach escape velocity in less than a minute with objects I'd never be able to do in KSP. For a very extreme example, simply get a small booster, give it some fins and a cone, and watch it single-handedly leave Kerbin forever.

Am I doing something wrong or is it working as intended?