[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[amo28]

Thanks for the help, guys. It turned out I needed to figure out the perfect combination of dumping fuel and pushing it to the front. It was also handy to learn that the camera autofocuses on your CoM, which I didn't know about before.

I pushed my CoM far in front of where my CoL was and got a decent re-entry. I guess I need to just stop playing it safe and take less DeltaV with me next time.

I just wanted to bring this up because I hadn't experienced such extreme re-entry effects so soon into the atmosphere. In the past, I'd even been able to leave my solar panels extended until about 60km.

Again, thanks for your help.

Ferram, really looking forward to your new version. Thanks for this great mod.

[ola]

I have a question regarding canards that might have been answered already, so please bear with me: I'm very fond of canard foreplanes. Does it matter whether they're high-set or not? Ie, do they disturb the flow over the main wing? And does high-setting them "push" air over the main wing to improve lift? And does high-setting them create stall on a "negative" AoA?

[Hodo]

The only issue I have been running into is the offset COL bug. And I found that if anything that has aerodynamic qualities to it is not straight it will throw that off. This means intakes, control surfaces, and even the engines.

It can be fixed just by spending an extra 5-10 minutes going over your craft with a fine toothed comb and making sure everything is perfect.

I have found I love the FAR mod and can't build SSTOs and planes without it now. Matter a fact every plane I seem to build now is an SSTO. Even if I don't take them in orbit they are the fastest way around Kerbin.

[Van Disaster]

FAR affects everywhere with an atmosphere. IIRC I saw something special about Jool when I checked the code quite a few versions back, but I can't remember what it was & I've not checked again.

[KerbMav]

FAR affects everywhere with an atmosphere.

Which means if I try a land-and-return from Eve, I wont have the same experience with FAR as far as the special Eve-Challenge is concerned.

[ferram4]

@KerbMav: Then the rolling problem is not due to the CoL being offset, but instead due to unequal connection strengths for parts attached with symmetry; basically, one wing will flex more than the other for unknown reasons. Use more struts to fix it.

FAR also handles all atmospheres equally, grabbing the atmospheric density for calculating dynamic pressure and atmospheric temperature for calculating Mach number (Jool has a special adjustment since its temperature scale drops below absolute zero, which causes Mach number to go NaN if allowed through). FAR does not change the characteristics of any planet's atmosphere; it only changes the aerodynamic characteristics of parts.

@ola: In the current version of FAR canards do not affect the aerodynamics of the main wing in a fully realistic manner. You don't have to worry about any of the concerns you've listed.

Edited September 11, 2013 by ferram4

[KerbMav]

@KerbMav: Then the rolling problem is not due to the CoL being offset, but instead due to unequal connection strengths for parts attached with symmetry; basically, one wing will flex more than the other for unknown reasons. Use more struts to fix it.

FAR also handles all atmospheres equally, grabbing the atmospheric density for calculating dynamic pressure and atmospheric temperature for calculating Mach number (Jool has a special adjustment since its temperature scale drops below absolute zero, which causes Mach number to go NaN if allowed through). FAR does not change the characteristics of any planet's atmosphere; it only changes the aerodynamic characteristics of parts.

I read about this only days ago! Sure, I saw no wobbling at all and didnt place any struts - I even removed the ones I placed out of habit during my x redesign ... so, if that is really the reason ... argh!!

Still a change then - hmm ... seems I will have two missions in two parallel universes then! ;p

[Van Disaster]

To follow up an earlier post: having done a few re-entry runs, nothing appears any different in this version.

[doubleg]

I seem to be experiencing a bug where all my planes spin and die... haha just kidding (the bug part - many of them really do spin and die...). I do however have a question about air breaks. I've put a couple on some very lightweight craft and played with the deflection angle but I don't seem to be creating much more drag. Does anybody have any tips about making effective air-breaks? I've noticed that with deflection angle of 90 the control surfaces don't move the full 90 degrees but I'm guessing that is just visual?

[Van Disaster]

As long as the surface stalls it'll increase drag significantly ( compared to the brakes being off, that is, not necessarily in absolute terms ); if you want to slow down more you simply need bigger airbrakes. As you get slower they're going to be less effective - don't forget increasing AoA also increases drag as you expose more wing.

Ferram, if I put a spoiler on the top front-ish of a wing surface is it going to stall the entire wing? I usually land slowly enough that I don't need to dump lift, but talking about airbrakes made me think of it.

[NathanKell]

I've found that airbrakes (on the fuselage at least) generate max drag at less than maximal deflection. Watch your Cd as you deploy them.

50 works way better than 80, for instance.

That said, it won't change your Cd much, alas. Which is a shame, because I needs me some brakes.

[loknar]

Did you try the flap setting for slowing down before landing? I was about to try this on my plane.

It is very hard to land because it is big and I can't slow down more than 100m/s before landing/crashing without stalling. Drag is nice but you actually need more lift for a slow landing, IMO. Airbrakes don't help landing, just counter overspeed and wind (eg in special cases).

[oggylt]

is there any kind of changelog anywhere?

[ferram4]

@Van Disaster: Putting the spoiler in front of the entire wing won't cause the entire thing to stall, unfortunately.

@oggylt: The readme file in the zip has a fairly extensive changelog. If you want more detailed change info, you'd probably be better off just reading up on aerodynamic theory and that will tell you most of what has been implemented.

[Ratzap]

Is anybody looking at getting MechJeb to notice when FAR is installed and adjust itself to work with the changed aerodynamics? If not I might have a poke at it sometime since it's been irritating me lately.

[taniwha]

Ratzap: just do it

[Van Disaster]

Is anybody looking at getting MechJeb to notice when FAR is installed and adjust itself to work with the changed aerodynamics? If not I might have a poke at it sometime since it's been irritating me lately.

I guess that would depend if you can run a simulation copy of FAR in a live game as a prediction plotter - there's plenty of live data in the popout in flight so I guess it ought to be available elsewhere somehow, but it all changes depending on craft attitude and control input as well as atmosphere changes. I'm presuming you're trying to fix the aerobrake predictor, anyway.

[Ratzap]

Ratzap: just do it

I still have the plugin I'm writing atm to finish and it's close enough to 0.22 to hold on till it's out. So soon but not right now, I was just checking if anyone else is at it already.

[Guest]

Not this again. Release it now, later you'll update it, if that'd be even needed. We're not close to 0.22, it'll be some time till it gets tested, approved and released. Please, don't hold stuff "for the next release", because it only causes unnecessary delays and will drag on for a stupidly long time.

[taniwha]

Even if I knew 0.22 would come out tomorrow, I'd still release an important fix. It would mean only that I might have to do another release the next day *shrug*.

[NathanKell]

This is why there's no update to DRE, for example. ialdabaoth was waiting for .21 to release anything, and then RL got in the way.

[asmi]

I still have the plugin I'm writing atm to finish and it's close enough to 0.22 to hold on till it's out. So soon but not right now, I was just checking if anyone else is at it already.

It's not - 0.22 is not even in testing yet, therefore it's at least few weeks away (likely more).

[oggylt]

@oggylt: The readme file in the zip has a fairly extensive changelog. If you want more detailed change info, you'd probably be better off just reading up on aerodynamic theory and that will tell you most of what has been implemented.

Dang it! I knew these readme files are named like that so we shouldn't ever touch them..

I am sorry :>

[loknar]

my recent FAR installation problems

reminder: I used 0.9.5.5 for a while and upgraded to latest. the loading screen gets stuck at Squad/PodCockpitmodel so I continue my tests

Test 1

KSP vanilla 21.1: ok

+ FAR 0.9.5.5 : ok

+ FAR 0.9.6.2: ok

+ other mod (chatterer) + saves + adjusting graphic settings:

all tests ok back to ksp, stalling and reverse russian radio chatter! (after a week of agony)

not sure what was wrong with my pc.. but now with many different tests something worked. very doubtful something was wrong with ksp. but when things started getting wrong, it was impossible to make it work even by removing FAR

cheers. I now have 5 minutes of free time left to play the game and my mom calls me....

[Ratzap]

Ok so there's no-one else at it. Once I finish my plugin then I'll have a look at it. Just to be clear, there is nothing to release I was just gauging where to put it in my list of things I want to get done.