[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[Zeenobit]

I'm noticing an issue, that I think might be related to FAR, but I'm not entirely sure.

I'm testing this only with stock parts. Very simple plane: Mk1 Cockpit, Jet Fuel tank, swept wings, Basic Jet Engine, and two of the basic air intakes. Simplest design I could make to test this.

I fire the engine on the runway, and as I'm gaining speed, my engine's thrust just keeps dropping as if I'm losing air. But I'm still on the runway! I lift off, my engine's thrust is still dropping. So much that by the time I'm at 3,000 m, with an AoA of 0, the Basic Jet Engine with max thrust of 150 kN is now giving me 20 kN at full throttle, and dropping.

Am I doing something wrong? Is this a recent change with FAR? Anyone else experiencing a similar behavior?

[ferram4]

@iamzac: While it's possible that could be the problem, that method is also incredibly laggy. Hence the other method. The CoL that is first loaded is not the one calculated from 0.14.3, they are never saved and are never loaded.

@Zeenobit: That is correct. Turbofans, while efficient and very good at producing good static thrust have their thrust drop off quickly as velocity increases. They are not very useful above Mach 1 at all.

[iamzac]

@iamzac: While it's possible that could be the problem, that method is also incredibly laggy. Hence the other method. The CoL that is first loaded is not the one calculated from 0.14.3, they are never saved and are never loaded.

I meant that when the ship is first loaded in 0.14.3.1 the COL is in the same position as in 0.14.3 (and I notice no errors in the log), and after that it changes (and errors appear in the log that seem to come from that change in the code, but I can't know if they are causing the problem or not).

I didn't mean that the COL was loaded from somewhere.

Edit: If anyone read my previous edits to this post ignore them, they where wrong.

Edited October 19, 2014 by iamzac

[peadar1987]

Has Squad's aerodynamic fix got anything to do with FAR or NEAR? Have they contacted Ferram about using the mod? I'm glad they're finally getting round to implementing this in stock, but I have fears that whatever they do just won't be as good.

[JackCY]

I find that I need to perform a sweep twice for the graph to stabilize, like first sweep is only a preview and after the second the graph doesn't change anymore. Weird, shouldn't it draw the same graph every time? Not only after 2nd time sweeping?

I don't mean just the axis limits that can change but the lines drawn change shape. Especially when tuning flaps doing two sweeps to get the final graph.

Not easy to replicate but it does happen not so rarely. And when it does happen it happens over and over again. Now I flew and am in editor, loaded a similar craft and it's gone, back to the other craft and still gone.

It happened before a few times for sure.

Sometimes even 3 sweeps are needed for the graph to not change anymore. 1st lines change, 2nd lines change, 3rd axis limits change.

And in v0.14.3.1 the changes in wing interaction suddenly also mean that flaps and control surfaces setup on airplanes need to be redone again because while my planes were taking of easily by themselves using flaps and settings, suddenly they won't take off or even fly up at all with the same flaps etc. settings when using v0.14.3.1 instead of v0.14.3. :/

How should we adjust the flaps for v0.14.3.1??? They need a lot more angle?

Also control surfaces seem to be less sensitive but I haven't confirmed it yet, only checked the flaps that are the most obvious to suddenly "not work" or not work as well.

Not only that, the whole profile seems to have changed for the wings slightly, messing up practically all existing planes a little.

Edited October 19, 2014 by JackCY

[Hyomoto]

@ferram - I am having the same or similar problem as iamzac. I reverted back to 14.3 and lo my plane flies normally. Whatever it is, it only appears in 14.3.1. However, as far as I can tell I am only having this issue with pWings. The normal wings seem to work, as far as my planes still fly, but any using pWings suffer from what I have to hazard as guess is the CoL moving. If I revert back to the hangar, all the wing data is normal but the CoL indicator is off to the right, sometimes significantly.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Hyomoto

[umaxtu]

So I'm confused, what is the first post talking about when it mentions inherent instability? Is it FAR running in x64 on windows or is it the x64 build itself?

[Boamere]

@Zeenobit: That is correct. Turbofans, while efficient and very good at producing good static thrust have their thrust drop off quickly as velocity increases. They are not very useful above Mach 1 at all.

[Istagg]

Hello all.

It's been quite a few updates since last I played KSP, and i usually spent most of my time designing and flying planes, and got quite good at it, if i do say so myself.

As such, FAR was, and is a priority 1 mod for me.

My question is, is there a feature that's not there anymore, or am I missing something?

Previously i design my aircraft, keeping CoM and CoL in mind, then I use FAR to sweep AoA, and then i could specify the amount of degrees the control surfaces could move., and what they would be used for. Pitch, roll, yaw.

Now in 0.25, i can't find any option in FAR to do the latter. Forgive me for being a noob(even though I've been with KSP since v0.18) I just haven't played in a good while.

[jfx]

@Istagg

1) right click control surfaces

2) ...?

3) Profit!

[jrandom]

i could specify the amount of degrees the control surfaces could move., and what they would be used for. Pitch, roll, yaw.

Now in 0.25, i can't find any option in FAR to do the latter. Forgive me for being a noob(even though I've been with KSP since v0.18) I just haven't played in a good while.

The functionality has been delegated to the right-click tweakables menu. It's a stock feature now.

[Istagg]

*Facepalm*

I did not think to check that.

Thanks guys! ^^ I'm off to build some planes. Some very stock looking planes. Until B9 is updated. I need me some B9. Dear Kerbal god, i can haz B9 plz?

[blowfish]

So I'm confused, what is the first post talking about when it mentions inherent instability? Is it FAR running in x64 on windows or is it the x64 build itself?

It's the x64 build itself, and it's gotten worse in .25. Squad never should have released the x64 Windows build in its current state.

[Guest]

I heard that it works much better in OpenGL mode, though. The DirectX mode is definitely unstable, though, and should be used with caution.

[blowfish]

I heard that it works much better in OpenGL mode, though. The DirectX mode is definitely unstable, though, and should be used with caution.

I haven't heard anything like that. The main advantage of OpenGL mode is that it reduces RAM usage, thereby decreasing the chances of running out of memory.

[sagirfahmid3]

Halp! I don't have a center of lift arrow in KSP 0.25, and also, my planes seem not to have very much lift, even with gigantic wings. I have to make them go over 200m/s just to get airborne (and most of the work is done just by the thrust vectoring instead of the wings' lift).

What's going on? The mods I have installed include: RealChutes, FAR version 14.3.1, Aviation Lights, BDArmory, RasterProp Monitor, KAS, Infernal Robotics, MechJeb, Procedural Dynamics, and Tweakscale. Module manager version is 2.5.1.

Here's a screenshot:

[Hyomoto]

That's because it doesn't exist anymore. Shocking, but doesn't affect how it works at all.

[ArcFurnace]

Halp! I don't have a center of lift arrow in KSP 0.25, and also, my planes seem not to have very much lift, even with gigantic wings. I have to make them go over 200m/s just to get airborne (and most of the work is done just by the thrust vectoring instead of the wings' lift).

What's going on? The mods I have installed include: RealChutes, FAR version 14.3.1, Aviation Lights, BDArmory, RasterProp Monitor, KAS, Infernal Robotics, MechJeb, Procedural Dynamics, and Tweakscale. Module manager version is 2.5.1.

Here's a screenshot:

http://imgbin.org/images/20486.png

The arrow was deliberately removed by ferram because it didn't actually mean anything and was just confusing people. This seems have had the side effect of confusing people as to why the vector is no longer there.

I'm assuming that image is meant to be an illustration of the lack of vector on the CoL marker, rather than an example of one of your planes not having much lift, given that it's a SRB with two tiny control surfaces on it, which would (realistically) have near-zero lift.

[sagirfahmid3]

Yes, just an illustration

That's pretty silly expecting a SRB to fly with those tiny winglets

[Patrick Kerbivan]

Yes, just an illustration

That's pretty silly expecting a SRB to fly with those tiny winglets

With some minor alterations to scale and another pair of winglets it actually works quite well.

[Boamere]

With some minor alterations to scale and another pair of winglets it actually works quite well.

Yes but missiles are mostly reliant on super-duper TWR instead of lift xD

And those fins are for stabilisation and control

[Hyomoto]

This is probably going to be a stupid question, but does FAR have hot keys? I love flying, but it's dangerous to let go of my joystick to interact with the FAR panel, and my left hand is not adequate for using the mouse. I have these four sweet, unused buttons just below the 4-way that would be IDEAL to operate FAR assists. So please tell me FAR has some bindings somewhere! I see nothing in the config.xml!

[Wanderfound]

This is probably going to be a stupid question, but does FAR have hot keys? I love flying, but it's dangerous to let go of my joystick to interact with the FAR panel, and my left hand is not adequate for using the mouse. I have these four sweet, unused buttons just below the 4-way that would be IDEAL to operate FAR assists. So please tell me FAR has some bindings somewhere! I see nothing in the config.xml!

While we're on the subject, are there any keyboard shortcuts for RPM MFDs?

[Drew Kerman]

This is probably going to be a stupid question, but does FAR have hot keys? I love flying, but it's dangerous to let go of my joystick to interact with the FAR panel, and my left hand is not adequate for using the mouse. I have these four sweet, unused buttons just below the 4-way that would be IDEAL to operate FAR assists. So please tell me FAR has some bindings somewhere! I see nothing in the config.xml!

That's why I love my X52. It took some getting used to but the thumbstick mouse controller on the throttle is a life-saver sometimes

[Climberfx]

Supersonico - Made to use with FAR.

Here the Supersonico. Did mach 5.5 but go beyond that.

Is fast, to use with FAR, but be careful in manoeuvres. It can brake a part in high speeds and G turns.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ifchjixa2d...ico.craft?dl=0

HotKey 1 - lower Flaps

HotKey 2 - increase Flaps

Use flaps to land, it take a lot of speed and hold the craft on air in low speed.

Screen Shot 2014-10-20 at 4.18.13

by

Climberfx

, on Flickr