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Cold plasma in shipping boats?


Arugela

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52 minutes ago, mikegarrison said:

That's because they are always in play. That's why we call them "laws".

 

[snip] You are mistaken. I said they are not evenly applied. [snip]

You cannot take those laws and simply apply them to real world to get a real world understanding. What you are saying is so grossly simplified it is not applicable to anything in the real world.

You can call them laws until you are blue in the face. You are mistaken about their application and know nothing about how they are used in the real life. Everything you have said is mistaken. psnip]

You cannot apply any "law" in physics directly and get a correct result.

And without having tested them yourself you can't even know if it's correct(And btw it needs to be tested endlessly. Not just a handful of times.). What does that make your theorising...(maybe theorising.) knowledge starts with you and ends with you. Other peoples thoughts or knowledge have nothing to do with whether you know you are correct. There is a practical reality to knowledge that has to be gone through.

You also have some personal attachment to them. That means you don't understand the subject. You don't even have anything to do with where they supposedly come from. [snip] Nor do you have any experience or knowledge to know if they or you are correct on any level. [snip]

Edited by Vanamonde
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I actually agree with you that if you can really build a ship that generates the power needed to propel it through the water by moving through the water, then that means I'm wrong. However, I don't believe you can build such a ship. However, if you do build it and it works, I'll happily come back here and admit I was wrong.

Good luck!

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On 8/5/2020 at 7:34 PM, Arugela said:

The other idea is then to use the cold plasma to convert water and air into fuel and then use that to fuel the boat and or generate electricity..

I'm trying to understand what you mean here. Normally a definite article, as in "the X", is used to refer back to a previously established instance of X, but this is the first reference to "cold plasma" in your whole post. What are you referring to exactly?

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The base idea is cleaning food for redundant measures on boats(or even the people in case of cross contamination at some point.). the second idea is also seeing how much it can turn surrounding resources into fuel or other things to improve the boats. Maybe make fuel or fuel additive or anything feasible. We don't know if corona will morph or future things happen that would call for more drastic measures. We don't know enough now potentially. Not to mention fun new technology to figure out new things for.

They might make good hand cleaners too. They are already working on air and water filtration and for more sensitive foods to increase life span of produce.

Edited by Arugela
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It's a room temp or relatively cold plasma. It's something being looked at now because of corona in particular. People have gotten it down to below freezing and can make ice with fire!! 8d

Actually fridge applications could be good. If you just apply a gas to change the temp you could use it for food or emergency reasons for various application. Medical maybe. I wonder if it could slow down and explosion or other odd things. Maybe some fire fighting or other applications.

It's being looked at for corona and other things because it  kills micro-organisms potentially. and being cold won't hurt produce as much compared to hotter plasmas. Plus it can be used in place of or in conjunction with UV for filtration systems. It can use a lot of electricity, but people have been giving reports of reducing this heavily. And who knows how far the tech can be taken.

Edited by Arugela
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It could be added to decontaminate stuff in the ship or when it comes into or leaves the ship for extra safety. I don't know if it's being looked at for ships. It probably has been. It's being developed for other areas. Plus it has potential application in other areas.

There is a lot of stuff being worked on atm for it. It has a lot of potential application. One is for space probes to extent the life of the bells on ion propulsion and gain longer deeper travelling space probes. the cold plasma doesn't wear out the material as badly. This actually is one use for ship and other things. It could play nicer with the ship itself.

Edited by Arugela
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 No, it means cold fire. Like a plasm torch. You actively spew it on things. Or you stick it in a small space in an air filter or water filter system and run things over it. The superficial difference is that it's cold temperature wise. In some cases based on human touch. In others relative to other plasmas.

Actually I'm not sure it can't be made and stored. Maybe magnetically or other means could be used.

It can also be used with magnetic fields and MHD generators and lots of other stuff. It's pretty interesting.

 

this is only one variation. From what I can tell it's very versatile and can be used in many ways.

Basically anything whatsoever that can use a normal plasma can use cold plasma potentially.

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Alright, here's what I see. Arugela wants to use "cold plasma" to crack water into oxygen and hydrogen. Then, he wants to burn it, to make water. This, he thinks, will power the boat forward in the water. Then, he will use the forward motion of the boat to make more energy and all this somehow ties in with Lebanon and COVID-19.

The problem is, converting forms of energy is inherently inefficient, and energy is always lost to entropy. This cannot be circumvented, and the principle is, along with causality, a sacred pillar of physics.

Of course, this energy has been partly converted into the kinetic energy of the ship. If Arugela tries to use the kinetic energy of the ship to increase the kinetic energy of the ship, he is trying to build a perpetual motion machine. His machine requires an efficiency of greater than 100%. This is nonsensical and impossible. As mikegarrison pointed out above, if Arugela can build this, we'll believe him, but we know he can't, of course.

And if cold plasma is a true plasma, it can't exist in atmosphere, it will become de-ionized.

***

Having watched the video, I see a fancy method of pasteurization. Not a magic propulsion tech. So no, your idea does not work, and electrified lunch meat has nothing to do with it.

Edited by SOXBLOX
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2 minutes ago, Arugela said:

 

Sorry to be so blunt, but you're still not answering the question. What does "the cold plasma" refer to in the context of a ship on the ocean? You gave a lengthy diversion on some other stuff and a link to a video (not interested, thanks), but what is the source of the cold plasma that you are imagining would be involved here? Please be specific and try to focus on the question that's being asked and answer it directly.

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Mocking each other and throwing insults around doesn't persuade anyone, but does make the forum a less pleasant place to visit. Please make your points without attacking each other. 

Some posts have been edited or removed. 

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33 minutes ago, HebaruSan said:

Sorry to be so blunt, but you're still not answering the question. What does "the cold plasma" refer to in the context of a ship on the ocean? You gave a lengthy diversion on some other stuff and a link to a video (not interested, thanks), but what is the source of the cold plasma that you are imagining would be involved here? Please be specific and try to focus on the question that's being asked and answer it directly.

I already answered the question?! I don't know what you are asking. It's normal plasma at lower temperatures. The video shows it in use.

You can generate it anywhere like in an arc welder to start with. Any plasma of sufficiently low temperature. Alot of experiments make it then run argon through it to lower it more. It can have gases passed through it to modify it's results. It can even freeze water and whatnot. It's something to do with the atoms or ions in the plasma not letting the heat out efficiently or something.

It's pretty common thing being researched at the moment. Google it if I'm not answering it correctly. If that didn't answer it I have no idea what you are asking me.

This might answer it: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cocktail-party-physics/chilling-out-with-cold-plasmas/

This may be the first place I heard the idea of air and water being used to make fuel. I don't think It's the only place I've seen it.

Edited by Arugela
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6 minutes ago, Arugela said:

I already answered the question?! I don't know what you are asking. It's normal plasma at lower temperatures. The video shows it in use.

I think you may be trying to answer, "What is cold plasma?" That's not what I'm asking. I'm asking, in the context of the idea you're proposing of a ship at sea somehow making use of "cold plasma," what cold plasma is being referred to? Where does it come from? Your initial idea seems to assume that there just is some "cold plasma" on the ship, and I'm trying to understand how that came about.

6 minutes ago, Arugela said:

Please don't insult me. I already answered your question. You need to make the question more clear. I have answered it directly. 

An "insult" would be something like insinuating that someone else doesn't understand what you're saying because they're not intelligent enough, or because they're dishonest or overly invested. I haven't said anything remotely insulting to you. Please don't play that card without reason. See above for further clarification.

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16 minutes ago, Arugela said:

Go read up on it's uses. I've already stated in other posts. Sorry.

Can you please point out where you stated it? I guess I might have missed it. I'm not really asking anything that relates to "reading up" in outside sources, since it's specifically a question about your proposed idea. It should be pretty easy to field a simple question about your own idea.

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Alright, let's be blunt again, based on what we've seen so far: There's no idea here. All there is is a single buzz-wordy phrase, "cold plasma", which the OP expects to do (nearly) infinite work on his or her behalf in whatever domain he or she chooses. ("You mentioned cold plasma! Brilliant! All the world's problems are solved!") If there was an actual clever plan or even the vaguest hint of an actionable idea here, the OP would be happy to answer even the most elementary questions about it, rather than feuding with every respondent about perceived (mostly non-existent) personal slights. People with (actual) knowledge and (real) big ideas cannot shut up about them; they don't resent follow-up questions and retreat and deflect, they answer questions fully (sometimes too verbosely!) and continue advocating for their position with enthusiasm.

It's abundantly clear that no real world ships are going to be modified in relation to anything brought up by the OP here, probably ever. If there was any basis upon which that could happen, the OP would be delighted that we were interested to read his or her explanation of it and ask questions about it. Instead, we get what we've gotten.

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2 hours ago, Arugela said:

Go read up on it's uses. I've already stated in other posts. Sorry.

No, you have not. You have mildly speculated on supposed alternatives to your supposed magical power source.

Generation of cold plasma requires considerable power - power that would have to be constantly produced by the ship's powerplant, because plasma is a rubbish storage medium. And the reason everyone is accusing you of trying to implement perpetual motion is that you then turn around and refer to water-cracking for fuel generation.

Theoff-handed mention of supercavuatting submarines in the OP doesn't exactly help.

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11 hours ago, HebaruSan said:

Alright, let's be blunt again, based on what we've seen so far: There's no idea here. All there is is a single buzz-wordy phrase, "cold plasma", which the OP expects to do (nearly) infinite work on his or her behalf in whatever domain he or she chooses. ("You mentioned cold plasma! Brilliant! All the world's problems are solved!") If there was an actual clever plan or even the vaguest hint of an actionable idea here, the OP would be happy to answer even the most elementary questions about it, rather than feuding with every respondent about perceived (mostly non-existent) personal slights. People with (actual) knowledge and (real) big ideas cannot shut up about them; they don't resent follow-up questions and retreat and deflect, they answer questions fully (sometimes too verbosely!) and continue advocating for their position with enthusiasm.

It's abundantly clear that no real world ships are going to be modified in relation to anything brought up by the OP here, probably ever. If there was any basis upon which that could happen, the OP would be delighted that we were interested to read his or her explanation of it and ask questions about it. Instead, we get what we've gotten.

I'm sorry, but there was no presumption of me answering any questions. Read the original post and please stick to the subject [snip] I didn't propose an idea. These are existing ideas. [snip]

Last I checked proper science was going over the extremities. It's certainly a normal engineering practice. I don't understand how this simple of a conversation can produce such a response from people. If you disagree with the premise why don't you respond with actual specifics others can analyse and see if you are correct. That would be a proper discussion. It would be a lot more interesting that insulting people because they think free energy is impossible(let alone relevant to the conversation.) or saying I'm crazy for mentioning a real life application like super cavitation. Which is a specific and extreme way to get rid of things related to fuel efficiency. There is no reason you can't use it for transport... In the real world that would be gone over seriously.

Edited by Vanamonde
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It comes from wherever you want it come from. Quite asking question like this. Go read about it. There are endless methods to produce it. That one video goes over one application. It's the same methods for other normal plasmas. I've answered it many time.

Edited by Arugela
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1 minute ago, Arugela said:

It comes from wherever you want it come from. Quite asking question like this. Go read about it.

That is a total non-answer. Imagine if I proposed an internal combustion engine, and in reponse to a question of where the gasoline comes from, I said, "It comes from wherever you want it come from." This is an insult to the intelligence of anyone reading this. Please stop wasting our time!

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9 hours ago, Arugela said:

Read the original post

If at least three people are unable to understand it, the problem might be on your end.

9 hours ago, Arugela said:

I didn't propose an idea. These are existing ideas.

You've thrown them together in an invalid way.

9 hours ago, Arugela said:

Add to the subject

There is naught to add. Your entire OP starts from a false premise.

[snip]

9 hours ago, Arugela said:

If you disagree with the premise why don't you respond with actual specifics

People have, and you promptly ignored them.

9 hours ago, Arugela said:

It would be a lot more interesting that insulting people because they think free energy is impossible

That's a very interesting turn of phrase, one that implies that at least one side of the conversation thinks free energy is possible.

9 hours ago, Arugela said:

or saying I'm crazy for mentioning a real life application like super cavitation. Which is a specific and extreme way to get rid of things related to fuel efficiency.

No. It's a way of reducing water resistance. Unfortunately by its very nature, fuel economy goes out the window, because the only compatible form of actual propulsion is a rocket.

That... and for some reason you propose underwater transport as an alternative to other forms of transportation, despite the denser medium making it inherently inferior in speed.

[snip]

Edited by Vanamonde
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