What to do with old vessels?

[maddog59]

I'm about 1/2 way thru the tech tree on my first career game, and I've got a number of vessels that I built early on that are hanging around in orbit, but are so poorly designed that I don't really want them around any longer. I hate to lose all of the value of them by just terminating or deorbiting them, and they're not designed for re-entry, so I can't easily  bring them back to Kerbin for recovery. I was thinking of creating a 'salvage yard' or 'graveyard' on the Mun or in orbit so they could be disassembled, but not sure how I'd do that with KAS/KIS, since for the  heavy  pieces I haven't figured out how to use 2 Kerbals at once (and I don't really want to modify one engineers .cfg to give it super-strength). 

I'm interested to know how others have solved this? 

[prestja]

I believe this belongs in the KSP 1 discussion forum, unless you somehow have early access to KSP 2 in which case please share.

That being said, your predicament is a perfect use case for Extraplanetary Launchpads. Give it an install, and drag your junk craft into the recycler. Free parts, free rockets!

[sir rocket]

I drain all the fuel to get back as much of the cost as possible, then deorbit them

[maddog59]

15 hours ago, sir rocket said:

I drain all the fuel to get back as much of the cost as possible, then deorbit them

Pretty much what I've been doing as well ... sometimes stripping them for parts where I can, like the RCS thruster blocks, solar panels, and so on. 

19 hours ago, prestja said:

I believe this belongs in the KSP 1 discussion forum, unless you somehow have early access to KSP 2 in which case please share.

Aack! You're right, it does ... not sure how I got the wrong forum. Sorry, and thanks for pointing that out. I'll be more careful next time!

19 hours ago, prestja said:

That being said, your predicament is a perfect use case for Extraplanetary Launchpads. Give it an install, and drag your junk craft into the recycler. Free parts, free rockets!

Thanks! I'll check it out. Much obliged!

[Hotel26]

I have designed at least a couple of kinds of vehicles (Mercy) whose purpose is to intercept and adorn such vehicles with 10m heat shield and numerous parachutes as well as sufficient boost power to deorbit and decelerate.

This is OK when the vehicles in question are already in orbit around Kerbin.  Otherwise, it's not likely worth the effort bringing them back.  In which case termination *is* the most economical solution.

[Caerfinon]

21 hours ago, maddog59 said:

not sure how I'd do that with KAS/KIS, since for the  heavy  pieces I haven't figured out how to use 2 Kerbals at once

One kerbal can manage one ton of weight. To manipulate larger things the engineer needs to work with the part and extra kerbals (1 per ton) need to be in close proximity to the engineer.

[maddog59]

1 minute ago, Caerfinon said:

One kerbal can manage one ton of weight. To manipulate larger things the engineer needs to work with the part and extra kerbals (1 per ton) need to be in close proximity to the engineer.

I think I've seen examples of that where they're landed somewhere; but is there a trick to getting multiple kerbals to stay in one place while in orbit? I have a tough time keeping one stationary while floating around a station... even when I have them place a hand-hold and grab it, after a few minutes they let go and I have to chase them down and bring them back. I can't see how I'd move a tank or engine (for instance) from point A to point B. So far the best I've figured out using one kerbal is to grab the  item and place it part way toward where I want it to go; 'hopscotch' the kerbal to the other side of the object, closer to where I want it to go; rinse and repeat until I get where I'm going. Very tedious and time-consuming. I can't imagine trying to do that with two or more... Please tell me there's an easier way! 

[James Kerman]

Thread moved to KSP Discussion.

[Caerfinon]

15 minutes ago, maddog59 said:

but is there a trick to getting multiple kerbals to stay in one place while in orbit

Ya that's a problem. But you could use winches to hook up things and move them at a distance. Winch at location B, slap a JS connector on the part at A and then reel it in. There's also a mod called easyboard that has a hot key for a making a Kerbal always want to grab a ladder. I find it useful for herding them around space stations.

 

[kerbiloid]

Wait for 1.11 with its EVA construction, install USI Konstruction mod for its weldable ports, attach the ports to the derelict ships and connect them into a horrific figure in orbit to tell stories in the night.

Later (after achieveing really big reusable ships), take it from orbit, return and sell for metal.

[maddog59]

12 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

Wait for 1.11 with its EVA construction, install USI Konstruction mod for its weldable ports, attach the ports to the derelict ships and connect them into a horrific figure in orbit to tell stories in the night.

LOL    I am SO there! Allow me to present for your horrification: Station Frankenstein: 

 

Has there already been a contest for the ugliest vehicle, base, or station?

[Corona688]

That's even more impressive than my old collection of space junk.  Some of those could still be decent tugs or couriers.

Quicksave and hit Z.  Do it.

Edited December 5, 2020 by Corona688

[maddog59]

2 hours ago, Corona688 said:

That's even more impressive than my old collection of space junk.  Some of those could still be decent tugs or couriers.

Every single one of those ships is still in active service!!! 

2 hours ago, Corona688 said:

Quicksave and hit Z.  Do it.

LOL - not sure I have the nerve .... but I might just try it sometime! 

Edited December 5, 2020 by maddog59

[Corona688]

13 minutes ago, maddog59 said:

LOL - not sure I have the nerve .... but I might just try it sometime! 

Did that by accident once - hit 'Z' to correct with the little spider engines, and woke up the slumbering pipe-organ of mainsails.  It bent it in half like a kid kicking a loaf of bread

[K^2]

For real satellites in high orbit, where there isn't enough interaction with Earth's atmosphere for their orbits to decay, such as geostationary satellites, there is a concept of a graveyard orbit. Basically, it's a lot cheaper to put defunct satellites into a slightly elevated and slightly inclined orbit than to try and deorbit them.

In KSP, there isn't as much of a reason to do this, as it's mostly about UI clutter, but you might be able to use the same principle. If your defunct ship/satellite is located too high to make de-orbiting practical, see if you can collide it with Mun instead. Once you're in high enough orbit around Kerbin, it takes very little fuel to ensure Mun encounter.

[maddog59]

On 12/5/2020 at 7:17 PM, K^2 said:

In KSP, there isn't as much of a reason to do this, as it's mostly about UI clutter, but you might be able to use the same principle. If your defunct ship/satellite is located too high to make de-orbiting practical, see if you can collide it with Mun instead. Once you're in high enough orbit around Kerbin, it takes very little fuel to ensure Mun encounter.

For sandbox, sure ... but I'm hoping to salvage the parts so I don't lose the Kb$$. 

[jimmymcgoochie]

If you’re so desperate for funds that you’re resorting to attempting to deorbit and recover old satellites, then something has gone badly wrong. Take a few easy contracts like part recoveries and Kerbal rescues, which pay decent rewards, give you more funds for the parts you salvage, gives you practice at recovering stuff in case you want to continue with salvaging your old satellites and gives you free Kerbonauts if you recover them; other options include doing science returns from xxx when you already have something at xxx with the required experiments e.g. a probe or rover.

If you just want to declutter the tracking station, terminate them; it’s usually not worth the hassle of trying to recover anything unless it has several very expensive parts or resources on it.

[paul_c]

I've never seen a contract which pays less than the necessary parts to complete that contract, so I don't see the need from a recovery $ point of view. In any case, unless it were built for recovery (and if you did, you wasted weight in doing so).....?

I just keep the majority there and don't touch them unless a "reposition" contract comes up. If its a relay and its run out of fuel, it stays. If its not a relay, and once its run out (or has too little to be of any use - but sometimes a "reposition" can be done very easily/cheaply!) I tend to terminate them, so a contract doesn't come up to reposition it which would be impossible.

Giving them sensible names helps finding them in the future, from the list. I wish it were possible to sort the list(s) though, instead they are in age order, oldest at the top.

Debris I'll occasionally have a big clean up.

[vv3k70r]

On 12/4/2020 at 3:29 PM, maddog59 said:

I've got a number of vessels that I built early on that are hanging around in orbit, but are so poorly designed that I don't really want them around any longer

Upgrade them by docking better controls? Use them as fuel suply? If they are corect coaxial to docking You can conect another engine with some hecs and other stuff (antena) turning off the previous engine. Use them as scrap parts to upgrade Your orbiting station if necessary. Add them more antena and send on far orbit as comsat?

There is plenty job to do for older vessels, because it is very expensive to send something to orbit. In KSP there is no problem with service, corosion (in any way, not only refering to oxidizing) or malfunction. It is why it is cheaper (in energy and other recources) to dig Moon and build on Earths orbit then dig on Earth and send to orbit.

 

[maddog59]

19 hours ago, jimmymcgoochie said:

If you’re so desperate for funds that you’re resorting to attempting to deorbit and recover old satellites, then something has gone badly wrong. 

I got plenty of Kb$$, it's just my innate desire to recycle  old things. I guess I'm just a child of the 60's!   

[maddog59]

On 12/5/2020 at 12:23 PM, Corona688 said:

Did that by accident once - hit 'Z' to correct with the little spider engines, and woke up the slumbering pipe-organ of mainsails.  It bent it in half like a kid kicking a loaf of bread

I couldn't resist ...
"And this, children, is why we always shut down our engines when we dock with a space station!"

Enjoy!

 

[razark]

On 12/4/2020 at 8:29 AM, maddog59 said:

...I've got a number of vessels that I built early on that are hanging around in orbit, but are so poorly designed that I don't really want them around any longer. I hate to lose all of the value of them by just terminating or deorbiting them...

https://www.google.com/search?q=sunk+cost+fallacy

[kane8907]

Understand the idea of recycling those parts. Are there expensive parts on the lost items?

[Corona688]

12 hours ago, razark said:

https://www.google.com/search?q=sunk+cost+fallacy

Is it still a fallacy when it costs nothing to keep them?

[maddog59]

11 hours ago, kane8907 said:

Understand the idea of recycling those parts. Are there expensive parts on the lost items?

Not particularly ... just a philosophical position. Admittedly I've not done any of the economics of this, or any contract I've engaged. I have no idea if I've earned or lost Kb$$ for all of the tourists I've taken to orbit or beyond.  But my Kb$$ balance keeps increasing, so I figure I'm doing alright.