[1.12.*] KerBalloons Reinflated - Real Science?

[linuxgurugamer]

8 minutes ago, somnambulist said:

I put together a quick replacement cfg file for the two service bay parts. Instead of static cfg files this uses ModuleManager to create clones of the stock parts. Benefit of using clones is that any changes to the parent parts are automatically incorporated into the KerBalloons parts without additional patches. e.g., There's no need to whitelist the stock models if you're using ReStock (if you're using ReStock you probably didn't even have the KerBalloons service bays in your parts list). Plus you get the ReStock models and their part variants without having to create a separate ReStock compatibility patch.

I'll be incorporating this into the next release, will make the current ones deprecated to avoid breaking any saves

[somnambulist]

Cool, glad you found it helpful. If you go that route probably best to give the MM cloned parts new names so they don't overwrite the old parts. 

[linuxgurugamer]

1 hour ago, somnambulist said:

Cool, glad you found it helpful. If you go that route probably best to give the MM cloned parts new names so they don't overwrite the old parts. 

Oh, they will, I don't want to break existing saves.

Thanks

[AccidentalDisassembly]

On 1/15/2021 at 10:34 AM, linuxgurugamer said:

New beta, 0.5.0.6

• Fixed display of Max payload at min pressure correctly this time

I've also done some test with removing the speed limiter.  Looks like it's properly taking drag into account, so no more rocketing up into space the way the original mod did.  Right now the speed limiter is enabled by default, I may change that depending on feedback

Bit late to the party on this, but when I gave KerBalloons a whirl out of curiosity, the speed limiter was definitely *not* the behavior I was expecting and I never would have thought to look in difficulty settings to change it. It appeared to be a baked-in behavior of the mod. Thus: I would leave it off by default, it just doesn't make sense from a player's perspective, who (like me) is probably going to think "big balloon = big lift = go up fast". If for some situations the speed limiter is necessary, maybe a PAW button that rationalizes the behavior would be more intuitive - "adaptive inflation" that tries to maintain X m/s of climb, or something.

[linuxgurugamer]

On 3/18/2021 at 5:07 PM, AccidentalDisassembly said:

Bit late to the party on this, but when I gave KerBalloons a whirl out of curiosity, the speed limiter was definitely *not* the behavior I was expecting and I never would have thought to look in difficulty settings to change it. It appeared to be a baked-in behavior of the mod. Thus: I would leave it off by default, it just doesn't make sense from a player's perspective, who (like me) is probably going to think "big balloon = big lift = go up fast". If for some situations the speed limiter is necessary, maybe a PAW button that rationalizes the behavior would be more intuitive - "adaptive inflation" that tries to maintain X m/s of climb, or something.

I agree that it isn't totally sensible, but it's the way the mod was written, and to change that would mean a lot of work to get the colliders & drag cubes working correctly.  For now, this works as it was originally written, which was the goal of the adoption

[mxi_steel]

OMG i went to redownload this mod on ckan and when i saw your name i freaked out!!! any future plans? (forgive me if anyone asked this just link me the comment) update cant find the balloon tried to search for it 

Edited March 22, 2021 by mxi_steel

[linuxgurugamer]

3 hours ago, mxi_steel said:

OMG i went to redownload this mod on ckan and when i saw your name i freaked out!!! any future plans? (forgive me if anyone asked this just link me the comment) update cant find the balloon tried to search for it 

Make sure you have all the dependencies installed.

Read the OP for changes

No future plans for now

[mxi_steel]

6 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Make sure you have all the dependencies installed.

Read the OP for changes

No future plans for now

uhhh its ckan it shoulda downloaded the dependencies but il check anyway 

1 minute ago, mxi_steel said:

uhhh its ckan it shoulda downloaded the dependencies but il check anyway 

i dunno if u know the people who work on ckan but it doesnt show the dependencies on ckan 

[linuxgurugamer]

55 minutes ago, mxi_steel said:

uhhh its ckan it shoulda downloaded the dependencies but il check anyway 

i dunno if u know the people who work on ckan but it doesnt show the dependencies on ckan 

Oh, nuts.  That's my mistake, I'll get it fixed.

CKAN has been updated with the dependencies, give it a little time to refresh

[mxi_steel]

eh just gave in and downloaded it manually through ckan lol 

[kirmie44]

I abused this mod at the beginning of my new Probes before crew campaign. I was putting several balloons on a single craft and use them all to lift the plane. I don't think the mod was meant for this though. A lot of the time, the configuration I picked wasn't saved on the balloon. Also, Sometimes they don't pop when they are supposed to at their limits. The first time it did this, I got to space with the balloons. I have been manually popping the balloons at the correct pressure limit so It hasn't been that bad. Just thought I'd let you know. 

Another issue is that the window doesn't always pop up for repacking the chute. it does a flicker thing with the menu.

[linuxgurugamer]

21 hours ago, kirmie44 said:

I abused this mod at the beginning of my new Probes before crew campaign. I was putting several balloons on a single craft and use them all to lift the plane. I don't think the mod was meant for this though. A lot of the time, the configuration I picked wasn't saved on the balloon. Also, Sometimes they don't pop when they are supposed to at their limits. The first time it did this, I got to space with the balloons. I have been manually popping the balloons at the correct pressure limit so It hasn't been that bad. Just thought I'd let you know. 

Another issue is that the window doesn't always pop up for repacking the chute. it does a flicker thing with the menu.

First off, the popping is very dependent on the altitude.  How high above their limits are they flying?

Second, the "flicker" is odd, sounds like something is going on, I'll need to see the log file to be able to do anything.

Finally, could you get me a short video showing the configuration save issue.

[kirmie44]

On 4/6/2021 at 7:17 PM, linuxgurugamer said:

First off, the popping is very dependent on the altitude.  How high above their limits are they flying?

I've never let them go all the way when they have clearly passed their limit but the first time it happened I got to 50000 and still accelerating. Ill see If I can replicate on vid.

On 4/6/2021 at 7:17 PM, linuxgurugamer said:

Second, the "flicker" is odd, sounds like something is going on, I'll need to see the log file to be able to do anything.

I couldn't get this to repeat. I crashed my plane before the real test of this happened and maybe lost a kerbal

On 4/6/2021 at 7:17 PM, linuxgurugamer said:

Finally, could you get me a short video showing the configuration save issue.

It isn't short because of loading time, the glitch didn't work at first (and I though showing you how to make it might help), and KCT, but I am able to replicate. (it is two vids because I had to leave in between. the 16 min one is more important though.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/12hhtr7XZA5Lrlky1yrg8es0cTcHMzCa_?usp=sharing

Edited April 10, 2021 by kirmie44

[abcmatteo]

I dont know how to use the baloons. could you tell me

[Tivec]

18 hours ago, abcmatteo said:

I dont know how to use the baloons. could you tell me

Add the part, right click in the flight scene and select "inflate balloon". Done!

@linuxgurugamer: I've got a question - would it at all be possible to make it so that a balloon doesn't pop when reaching max altitude, but rather stay at that altitude?  I'd have to use Kerbal Weather Project or some engine for them to drift, but it'd be quite nice to have a slowly deflating balloon over X hours instead of *pop* free fall! Thoughts?

[linuxgurugamer]

1 hour ago, Tivec said:

Add the part, right click in the flight scene and select "inflate balloon". Done!

@linuxgurugamer: I've got a question - would it at all be possible to make it so that a balloon doesn't pop when reaching max altitude, but rather stay at that altitude?  I'd have to use Kerbal Weather Project or some engine for them to drift, but it'd be quite nice to have a slowly deflating balloon over X hours instead of *pop* free fall! Thoughts?

I can add it to a TODO list for now

 

[Tivec]

3 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

I can add it to a TODO list for now

 

I will see if there's something I can do, maybe I can do a patch if I figure that part of the source out  Maybe a setting in the mod that makes balloons just stay at altitude, allowing the user to decide when to bring them down, or have a timer of some sort that starts "ticking" when the balloon is at the minimum atmospheric pressure... Worth thinking about, I'll look at the source and see what I can do.

Edited April 11, 2021 by Tivec

[linuxgurugamer]

10 minutes ago, Tivec said:

I will see if there's something I can do, maybe I can do a patch if I figure that part of the source out  Maybe a setting in the mod that makes balloons just stay at altitude, allowing the user to decide when to bring them down, or have a timer of some sort that starts "ticking" when the balloon is at the minimum atmospheric pressure... Worth thinking about, I'll look at the source and see what I can do.

Oh, I know what to do about it, just have to get the time.  There is a parameter which limits the rising speed, look for that and where it's used, you will want to not apply that if at altitude

[Tivec]

1 minute ago, linuxgurugamer said:

There is a parameter which limits the rising speed, look for that and where it's used, you will want to not apply that if at altitude

Interesting. Maybe slowly reduce it as you reach altitude? I mean, it would make sense for the balloon to slow the climb as it nears the top. I'll look for the parameter

[linuxgurugamer]

Ideally, the mod would model the buoyancy of the balloon using altitude, and include the drag of the balloons to determine the lift, etc.  But it does  it with an approximation which is good enough for what it was designed to do

[Budgi3Bloops]

Is there a way you can get it to be able to save during flight? Because when I try to save and then go back to the KSC it put the ballon back on the launch pad, so once I launch it I have to be viewing for it to exist.

[somnambulist]

13 hours ago, Budgi3Bloops said:

Is there a way you can get it to be able to save during flight? Because when I try to save and then go back to the KSC it put the ballon back on the launch pad, so once I launch it I have to be viewing for it to exist.

Try AirPark 

 

[Starhelperdude]

can I use the baloons for airship-like vehicles and flying bases?

[Hohmannson]

6 hours ago, Starhelperdude said:

airship-like vehicles and flying bases

Bases - yes, with AirPark mod and maybe some config tweaking you can make a sky platform. But the balloons fly only upwards and their buyoancy can't be controlled, pressing Deflate just pops them forever, so airships are not possible.

[linuxgurugamer]

This mod isn't intended for airships, there are other mods for that