Why my vessel crash before reentry finishes?

[Spricigo]

1 hour ago, Anonymous49 said:

Total cost for launch: 11085 funds

For a moment I was worried that you meant cost per launch (total-recovery). Gladly, it is not the case.

On the other hand I'm a bit disappointed to find out that it is not capable of reaching orbit. (The tourist can complete the suborbital and orbital requeriment in the same launch, you don't need to launch him/her twice)

 

1 hour ago, Anonymous49 said:

See how much reusing a booster could give you?

Have you considered the Opportunity Cost?

In a craft that just  do a suborbital hop it make little difference but as the range increase it also increase the time and effort to make it recoverable.  So, while you would expend more per launch  with expendable vehicles, you also end up earning more per unit of time because you skip (most of) the recover procedure resulting in more trips in the same time.

Now, KSP is pretty skewed toward the rewards. Most* contracts can be paid for with a fraction of the advance and the rewards are several times more than that.  Cost of the craft matter very littler  if a single flight  pay for a dozens of such craft. 

 

*The randomness of some requirements may lead to some ludicrous difficult contracts. 

[Anonymous49]

56 minutes ago, Spricigo said:

For a moment I was worried that you meant cost per launch (total-recovery). Gladly, it is not the case.

On the other hand I'm a bit disappointed to find out that it is not capable of reaching orbit. (The tourist can complete the suborbital and orbital requeriment in the same launch, you don't need to launch him/her twice)

 

Have you considered the Opportunity Cost?

In a craft that just  do a suborbital hop it make little difference but as the range increase it also increase the time and effort to make it recoverable.  So, while you would expend more per launch  with expendable vehicles, you also end up earning more per unit of time because you skip (most of) the recover procedure resulting in more trips in the same time.

Now, KSP is pretty skewed toward the rewards. Most* contracts can be paid for with a fraction of the advance and the rewards are several times more than that.  Cost of the craft matter very littler  if a single flight  pay for a dozens of such craft. 

 

*The randomness of some requirements may lead to some ludicrous difficult contracts. 

it doesn't actually use less time. cuz the ship actually lands ~2m/s faster than the booster so the time time stays the same

1 hour ago, Spricigo said:

The tourist can complete the suborbital and orbital requeriment in the same launch, you don't need to launch him/her twice

Oh ok didn't know that

[VoidSquid]

3 hours ago, Anonymous49 said:

Download the reusuable craft here

Great it works for you and even better you enjoy what you're doing!  

For my career play though, I have other goals and priorities, namely put a flag on every CB where possible.

With my funds in the 9-digits range, having 150+ vessels active in the Kerbol system, from relay and utility satellites to rovers, science probes, space stations, and kerballed landers, I don't have that much interest in recovering spent stages.

Next things to do for me is establishing relay constellations in the Jool system as well as around Eeloo, getting the ScanSats to work, and getting my Kerbals to land and explore using their rovers.

One of the many aspects I love about KSP is that everyone can play it his own way, settings their own goals. Combine that with to numerous mods you can install, and everyone has his own experience.  

Edited January 12, 2021 by VoidSquid

[Anonymous49]

3 minutes ago, VoidSquid said:

Great it works for you and even better you enjoy what you're doing!  

For my career play though, I have other goals and priorities, namely put a flag on every CB where possible.

With my funds in the 9-digits range, having 150+ vessels active in the Kerbol system, from relay and utility satellites to rovers, science probes, space stations, and kerballed landers, I don't have that much interest in recovering spent stages.

Next things to do for me is establishing relay constellations in the Jool system as well as around Eeloo, getting the ScanSats to work, and getting my Kerbals to land and explore using their rovers.

One of the many aspects I love about KSP is that everyone can play it his own way, settings their own goals. Combine that with to numerous mods you can install, and everyone has his own experience.  

well yeah i had another one like that but then it went no fun. I like starting new games btw

[vv3k70r]

7 hours ago, Anonymous49 said:

well i am waiting for the contract to appear btw

I see what tech You have and wonder why You are not at da Mun already. Those solar panels are quite advanced for Mun landing.

If You do a fly by You get landing milestone to do. But even without contract You gonna get granted for milestone on Your own - there be a message kinda "astrologist society granted You for doing magic" (astronomical society granted You for achievment). And it will be kerbmoney.

[Anonymous49]

1 hour ago, vv3k70r said:

I see what tech You have and wonder why You are not at da Mun already. Those solar panels are quite advanced for Mun landing.

If You do a fly by You get landing milestone to do. But even without contract You gonna get granted for milestone on Your own - there be a message kinda "astrologist society granted You for doing magic" (astronomical society granted You for achievment). And it will be kerbmoney.

but contracts give quite a lot, just asking how much reputation is needed for it. And what cheat from the menu i need to get the contract for a mun flyby.

P.S. I only have the micro landing strut

[Anonymous49]

4 hours ago, VoidSquid said:

Great it works for you and even better you enjoy what you're doing!  

For my career play though, I have other goals and priorities, namely put a flag on every CB where possible.

With my funds in the 9-digits range, having 150+ vessels active in the Kerbol system, from relay and utility satellites to rovers, science probes, space stations, and kerballed landers, I don't have that much interest in recovering spent stages.

Next things to do for me is establishing relay constellations in the Jool system as well as around Eeloo, getting the ScanSats to work, and getting my Kerbals to land and explore using their rovers.

One of the many aspects I love about KSP is that everyone can play it his own way, settings their own goals. Combine that with to numerous mods you can install, and everyone has his own experience.  

I have a million funds u have a hundred million funds

[VoidSquid]

Yepp, several tourists wanted to visit an asteroid, that pays very well  

[Anonymous49]

33 minutes ago, VoidSquid said:

Yepp, several tourists wanted to visit an asteroid, that pays very well  

an asteroid???

[VoidSquid]

Yepp. There are asteroids in KSP, and you can catch them. And bring tourists there who want to visit one.

And since 1.10., there are comets as well in KSP.

Edited January 12, 2021 by VoidSquid

[Anonymous49]

3 minutes ago, VoidSquid said:

Yepp. There are asteroids in KSP, and you can catch them. And bring tourists there who want to visit one.

And since 1.10., there are comets as well in KSP.

i know there are asteroids. But I don't know how to reach one. And why would tourists go to asteroids???

 

Btw, I earn ~13000 by bringing 1 tourist into orbit (and suborbit). If I have done both I get an extra 60000

 

Great pay

[VoidSquid]

9 minutes ago, Anonymous49 said:

But I don't know how to reach one

There a several tutorials, e.g. here: 

 

 

9 minutes ago, Anonymous49 said:

And why would tourists go to asteroids???

Now that question you better ask the tourists, I'm just bringing them there and back and get paid for it 

Pays pretty well, ain't it?  

Edited January 12, 2021 by VoidSquid

[vv3k70r]

3 hours ago, Anonymous49 said:

P.S. I only have the micro landing strut

After You land few times You will need no struts att all.

 

[paul_c]

3 hours ago, Anonymous49 said:

but contracts give quite a lot, just asking how much reputation is needed for it. And what cheat from the menu i need to get the contract for a mun flyby.

P.S. I only have the micro landing strut

I would advise not cheating to influence the contracts. Take them as they come, be guided by what's being offered to you. Enjoy the journey, its not just about the destination.

If you want to go to the Mun cost-free, then just go into sandbox mode and build a rocket and do it. Then you can use a part or two your career doesn't have access to if you want.

[Anonymous49]

I don't mean by the "Cheats" menu. I meant by the "Contract" menu so I can grind some science at the same time

12 hours ago, VoidSquid said:

There a several tutorials, e.g. here: 

 

 

Now that question you better ask the tourists, I'm just bringing them there and back and get paid for it 

Pays pretty well, ain't it?  

ONE MILLION DOLLARS?! THAT'S HOW MUCH I HAVE EARNED SO FAR MAN

[Spricigo]

On 1/12/2021 at 2:34 AM, Anonymous49 said:

it doesn't actually use less time. cuz the ship actually lands ~2m/s faster than the booster so the time time stays the same

That is not how it goes.

If you care to find out, build a expendable craft and use a chronometer to find out how much real life time it takes to fly the mission. Then adjust the craft to make it recoverable and find how much it takes to fly the mission in that configuration.

The recoverable craft will use more time, since it need to carry the extra mass of the recovering equipment  and the adjusted trajectory itself will further hinder it in most cases.  As I said, it is not a big deal for a small suborbital hopper, but quite noticeable for a large orbital craft. Also, not something that you "shouldn't do", just be aware that is a thing and make an informed decision on what is better for you.

[paul_c]

On 1/12/2021 at 12:36 AM, Anonymous49 said:

well i am waiting for the contract to appear btw

I started a new career save - this time strictly not using revert, or reincarnating dead Kerbals, etc. I did 2 contracts (can only select 2) - suborbital Kerbin and orbit around Kerbin. After I completed the orbital Kerbin, a "visit the Mun" contract has appeared.

AIUI only a certain number of contracts appear at a time (10? 12?) and for a further contract to appear, another needs to be completed or declined.

Edited January 13, 2021 by paul_c

[Wobbly Av8r]

9 hours ago, Spricigo said:

If you care to find out, build a expendable craft and use a chronometer to find out how much real life time it takes to fly the mission. Then adjust the craft to make it recoverable and find how much it takes to fly the mission in that configuration.

Because the complexity of the options for the noob can be overwhelming, I think a lot of folks get into the idea that pursuing whatever it takes to complete contracts and science, they don't take a little extra time to "smell the roses" (From the philosophy/saying  "As you go down the path of life, it is important to take time to smell the roses")

In this case, experimentation as you suggest is really important to developing a real sense of the reality of intergalactic travel! Kudos on the recommendation! However...

9 hours ago, Spricigo said:

The recoverable craft will use more time, since it need to carry the extra mass of the recovering equipment  and the adjusted trajectory itself will further hinder it in most cases. 

Yes, recovery of equipment takes extra playing time, but if properly considered, also minimizes launch costs to an embarrassingly small investment, i.e. in essence the cost of the fuel; the trick is to make a single stage vehicle that requires minimal recovery components (but also knowing that if you can control the reentry, you will recover 90%+ of the costs) and only use them to establish LKO. As an example, I can routinely put 19t into LKO for a total cost of < 7,000 Kerbucks with no loss of time because the recoverable portion can orbit Kerbin indefinitely while I focus on the continuing mission and I can recover the booster during a "break in the action" as it were.

Just food for thought.

[paul_c]

I just did a Mun flyby in my 2nd career, very early on. This is the tech tree:

and there's no other upgrades except the $150,000 Astronaut Complex upgrade (so I can do EVAs and earn science quicker). I forgot how dicey it is in the early days! No maneouvring nodes. The intercept with Mun isn't even higlighted and you only know its successful until you arrive near the Mun, and no idea of the return trajectory either. You'd need to know and  trust the underlying orbital mechanics/science, and also have flown the vehicle pretty much spot-on to 0deg inclination (which isn't displayed until you do an upgrade). I had just about enough fuel - I needed the "level 4" "advanced rocketry" to gain the T400 fuel tank, so that I can have enough fuel and stay within the 30 part limit too. And I don't have any probe control either so needed to send Val (Jeb's dead.....), my only remaining pilot..... 

So its definitely possible for you! Go for The Mun!

Forgot to mention - on the return, I did keep an eye on the chute deployment and tweaked the pressure from 0.04 to 0.07. This allowed the heatshield to do more of the slowing down and enter the "safe zone" of the drogue chute which was still unsafe at 0.04 (you can use the display of the pressure gauge science instrument to know the pressure). So it might be a factor in your original problem. Obviously its worth delaying the chute deployment if it says "unsafe" and its still slowing down! If its not, then you would probably need 2 chutes (and deploy one later or manually), knowing one will do a bit of slowing then get torn off.

[king of nowhere]

On 1/12/2021 at 7:34 AM, VoidSquid said:

With my funds in the 9-digits range, having 150+ vessels active in the Kerbol system, from relay and utility satellites to rovers, science probes, space stations, and kerballed landers, I don't have that much interest in recovering spent stages.

 

wow... i lost interest in the whole career when my funds reached 7 digits. and i stopped caring about economic efficiency long before that

[paul_c]

I think it was between about 1,000,000 and 4,000,000 where I was just happy launching satellites and also did loads of tourist trips, where I stopped worrying about money.

But in the early stages you do need to look at it - and reusable vehicles is obviously attractive.

Now that I've "started my career again" I like the way there's so many constraints at first, it really does feel like you're pioneering. You need to have astronauts, limited parts/technology, limited part count, limited weight, etc etc

[Spricigo]

8 hours ago, Wobbly Av8r said:

Yes, recovery of equipment takes extra playing time, but if properly considered, also minimizes launch costs to an embarrassingly small investment, i.e. in essence the cost of the fuel;

The counter argument is welcome as, it goes without saying, the idea is to allow the new player to make his own decision, aware of the several factors that may be important.

Also, the links in my sig will show that  recovering is not out of question for me.

 

@paul_c are you aware of The KSP Caveman Challenge? Seems like something you'd enjoy.

 

[Anonymous49]

19 hours ago, Spricigo said:

That is not how it goes.

If you care to find out, build a expendable craft and use a chronometer to find out how much real life time it takes to fly the mission. Then adjust the craft to make it recoverable and find how much it takes to fly the mission in that configuration.

The recoverable craft will use more time, since it need to carry the extra mass of the recovering equipment  and the adjusted trajectory itself will further hinder it in most cases.  As I said, it is not a big deal for a small suborbital hopper, but quite noticeable for a large orbital craft. Also, not something that you "shouldn't do", just be aware that is a thing and make an informed decision on what is better for you.

almost the same time cuz the ship lands faster.

3 hours ago, paul_c said:

I think it was between about 1,000,000 and 4,000,000 where I was just happy launching satellites and also did loads of tourist trips, where I stopped worrying about money.

But in the early stages you do need to look at it - and reusable vehicles is obviously attractive.

Now that I've "started my career again" I like the way there's so many constraints at first, it really does feel like you're pioneering. You need to have astronauts, limited parts/technology, limited part count, limited weight, etc etc

well yeah i have 2 million dollars right now

8 hours ago, paul_c said:

I just did a Mun flyby in my 2nd career, very early on. This is the tech tree:

and there's no other upgrades except the $150,000 Astronaut Complex upgrade (so I can do EVAs and earn science quicker). I forgot how dicey it is in the early days! No maneouvring nodes. The intercept with Mun isn't even higlighted and you only know its successful until you arrive near the Mun, and no idea of the return trajectory either. You'd need to know and  trust the underlying orbital mechanics/science, and also have flown the vehicle pretty much spot-on to 0deg inclination (which isn't displayed until you do an upgrade). I had just about enough fuel - I needed the "level 4" "advanced rocketry" to gain the T400 fuel tank, so that I can have enough fuel and stay within the 30 part limit too. And I don't have any probe control either so needed to send Val (Jeb's dead.....), my only remaining pilot..... 

So its definitely possible for you! Go for The Mun!

Forgot to mention - on the return, I did keep an eye on the chute deployment and tweaked the pressure from 0.04 to 0.07. This allowed the heatshield to do more of the slowing down and enter the "safe zone" of the drogue chute which was still unsafe at 0.04 (you can use the display of the pressure gauge science instrument to know the pressure). So it might be a factor in your original problem. Obviously its worth delaying the chute deployment if it says "unsafe" and its still slowing down! If its not, then you would probably need 2 chutes (and deploy one later or manually), knowing one will do a bit of slowing then get torn off.

i thought crew will respawn

[Anonymous49]

On 1/12/2021 at 10:35 AM, Spricigo said:

As a general rules:

•  Science First (as @VoidSquidsuggested). Is often a good idea to even 'rush' a more expensive node if it unlock science instruments)
• New parts before bigger parts. E.g: you can use multiple smaller crew parts instead of a bigger crew part

Among the 90 science points node  I'd prioritize:

1. Electrics (solar panels, okto probecore)
2. Miniaturization (jr docking port)
3. Advanced Construction (fairing)
4. Fuel Systems (Fuel duct and fuel crossfeed)
5. Propulsion Systems (tiny engines)

In that order.  That goes well with my preference for  satellites and the eventual station for funding at that stage of the game.yyou may prefer to do something else and in that case some other nodes may be more useful.

.

Well, I suppose it is a good rocket then.

The problem is that it becomes obsolete too quickly. With a couple of launches one get enough funds to do a Mun/Minmus mission. which is enough to unlock the parts for a more capable' excursion bus' or the nodes for station/satellites. 

just shocked that you didn't put space exploration. I needed to ship cargo to and from the station. Shall I get that next? I already got the first 3

[Spricigo]

3 minutes ago, Anonymous49 said:

just shocked that you didn't put space exploration. I needed to ship cargo to and from the station. Shall I get that next? I already got the first 3

As I said, you may have other priorities, but space exploration don't have much use for me.

Considering that you are dealing with stations, Advanced Flight Control(for RCS) become more important. (Didn't made into my list since I don't really use station until later.)