Energy Portals

[kerbiloid]

4 hours ago, cubinator said:

If you tried to put an object through, it would be destroyed and turned to all kinds of radiation, but you can shine a radiation beam through the portal and it will come out the other side.

But the photons are material.

Even more, you can receive other particles from photon collisions, so photons are kinda acrhived particles.

So, to transmit the energy, you have to transmit the particles, or at least make them interact with the particles at the other side.
And "interact" anyway irl means an exchange with (depends on particles) at subparticle level.

[KerikBalm]

18 hours ago, Spacescifi said:

 

You have structural ring device called a portal.

The only thing you can portal through the aperture is electromagnetic radiation.

Ok, cool, so a free energy device that can send messages back through time.

Or is the EM radiation red shifted according to the relative velocities of the portals?

[Spacescifi]

1 hour ago, KerikBalm said:

Ok, cool, so a free energy device that can send messages back through time.

Or is the EM radiation red shifted according to the relative velocities of the portals?

 

You won't send EM back through time.

 

The EM photons transmit through the portal in real time...the present.

Allows you to see whatever is on the other side in real time among other things.

Edited April 24, 2021 by Spacescifi

[Terwin]

8 hours ago, Spacescifi said:

You won't send EM back through time.

 

The EM photons transmit through the portal in real time...the present.

Allows you to see whatever is on the other side in real time among other things.

Anything that can move information faster than the speed of light, can allow effect to happen before the cause from some viewing angles, thus time-travel.

Relativity tells us that there is no universal 'Now' and any viewing angle as is valid as any other, so if you have the two sides of your portal 1 light second apart, you can see the object come out of the portal, then look in your telescope and see it go into the portal 1 second later, thus having effect before cause, ie time-travel.

FTL may not feel like time-travel, but the math says that it really is.

[KerikBalm]

11 hours ago, Spacescifi said:

The EM photons transmit through the portal in real time...the present.

Allows you to see whatever is on the other side in real time among other things.

Whose present?

We are throwing relativity out of the window then?

Can we then have slow and fast light? Is FTL meaningless then?

How does EM even work then? 

The clocks on each side run at different rates, affecting frequency of light passing through, they will observe different lengths, you can also blue shift the light coming through like crazy... Turn low energy photons into high energy ones.

Free energy device that can send messages back in time... Not cheaty at all... Nope

Edited April 25, 2021 by KerikBalm

[kerbiloid]

With a couple of portals we can store a lot of energy in the infinite loop.

By placing such loop at a blackhole one above other, we can get an infinite accelerator for free.

[Spacescifi]

8 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

Whose present?

We are throwing relativity out of the window then?

Can we then have slow and fast light? Is FTL meaningless then?

How does EM even work then? 

The clocks on each side run at different rates, affecting frequency of light passing through, they will observe different lengths, you can also blue shift the light coming through like crazy... Turn low energy photons into high energy ones.

Free energy device that can send messages back in time... Not cheaty at all... Nope

 

If what you said us so then you just found another use for the common scifi portal.

Since trope scifi portals simply let everything through.

Also, this would be way over the average reader's head anyway unless they are studying Einstein's relativity and understand it.

 

And by present I mean the NOW.

 

Light from a 5 years ago you will not see from a portal 5 LY away. You will see light emitted that very second.

 

Also though people in different locations may perceive time differentlly due to gravity. They can STILL set a deadline for something to be done at a certain time. So there is ALWAYS a now.

 

If there was not global government and business would not care as much about coordination over differing timezones.

 

[Shpaget]

11 minutes ago, Spacescifi said:

And by present I mean the NOW.

 

Light from a 5 years ago you will not see from a portal 5 LY away. You will see light emitted that very second.

 

Also though people in different locations may perceive time differentlly due to gravity. They can STILL set a deadline for something to be done at a certain time. So there is ALWAYS a now.

 

If there was not global government and business would not care as much about coordination over differing timezones.

No, KerikBalm is correct, as far as we understand the spacetime we live in. There is no universal "now" that everybody agrees on. Everybody has their own "now" that is different from other peoples'. For everyday life on Earth it doesn't matter much, since light speed is fast enough and we can safely disregard this discrepancy, but once we start talking about space distances, and especially instant travel, you can no longer ignore this.

[kerbiloid]

And the farther two neurons of the same brain sit from each other, the more their "nows" differ.
So, any creature also has numerous nows.

[KerikBalm]

On 4/25/2021 at 4:22 PM, Spacescifi said:

If what you said us so then you just found another use for the common scifi portal.

It is, which immediately renders everystory utterly stupid/arbitrary/incoherent,

"Oh no, the bad guy deployed his super weapon, we don't know how to defeat it, we are so screwed!!!"

>"No we aren't, I just sent a message back in time, warning ourselves, we have 5 years to prepa-"

5 years ago

"So um, we just got this message that says the bad guy is building a superweapon that will be ready in 5 years, lets take our fleet there and destroy it"

Badguy: "Oh no, the Republic fleet found out about my superweapon before it was complete, I'll just send myself a message 10 years back in time with the plans for the super weapon"

15 years ago

Badguy: "oh, these are some cool plans for a super weapon, I'll start building them right away, should be ready in 5 years"

10 years ago

 

"Oh no, the bad guy deployed his super weapon, we don't know how to defeat it, we are so screwed!!!"

>"No we aren't, I just sent a message back in time, warning ourselves, we have 5 years to prepa-"

15 years ago

"So um, we just got this message that says the bad guy is building a superweapon that will be ready in 5 years, lets take our fleet there and destroy it"

Badguy: "Oh no, the Republic fleet found out about my superweapon before it was complete, I'll just send myself a message 10 years back in time with the plans for the super weapon"

25 years ago

...

Do you see the problem?

Anytime there is an unexpected turn of events, they can just warn their past selves. Everything degenerates into a causiality paradox or infinite regress.

Then you need to introduce a Temporal Prime Directive and Time Cops to try and salvage it.

Now all your stories involve Time Cops... and thats... lame.

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Also, this would be way over the average reader's head anyway unless they are studying Einstein's relativity and understand it.

While it may be way over most readers heads, you don't need extensive study of Einsteints relativity to understand it. If you are reasonably intelligent, you should be able to work it out yourself when using spacetime diagrams, and knowing that everyone observes the speed of light to be the same. Observer A on ship passing by at 0.99c  (relative to observer B) shining a light forward will observe that light to be travelling at c relative to the ship, whereas observer B will observe the light to be travelling at c relative to him/herself, not 1.99c. Once you understand this, and construct your space time diagram accordingly, you can see how

http://www.physicsmatt.com/blog/2016/8/25/why-ftl-implies-time-travel#:~:text=Because light travels at 45,away from the time axis.&text=Again%2C this is what a,like in a spacetime diagram.

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And by present I mean the NOW.

There is no specific "now". Observers in different reference frames have different nows. Observer A may say that events 1, 2, and 3 are happening "now", while Observer B may say that event 1 happened 1 year in the past, event 2 is happening now, and event 3 has not happened yet. If Observer A and B can communicate FTL, they can each send messages to each other about events that haven't happened yet from each of their reference frames.

This compounds because then one observer can send a message to the other observer about the content of their message, before they sent the message, thus warning each observer about events that haven't happened yet in either of their "nows".

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They can STILL set a deadline for something to be done at a certain time.

Yes, they can do relativity calculations, and define an Earth Standard Reference frame ("Earth-now").... but with relativistic travel and FTL portals you will be receiving messages coming from different times.

So when you are on Earth, and you receive a message coming from "Earth-now" + 5 years, do you just file it away and not read it for another 5 years?

What happens when you receive a message "Earth-now" from Earth time - 5 years? Do you send a reprimand for improper scheduling, do you try to forward it to another reference frame that can rectify the situation so that you did receive it 5 years ago?

What if you peek at that message from "Earth-now"+5 years, and its a report of an alien invasion of Earth, do you obey the temporal prime directive and only schedule it to be read by others in 5 years??

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So there is ALWAYS a now

Yes, and its always different for different reference frames. Adding a schedule doesn't fix this issue

Edited April 28, 2021 by KerikBalm

[kerbiloid]

How many milliseconds does it take to think "now"?

[SOXBLOX]

@Spacescifi, you might want to read the Atomic Rockets article on this. It's here.

Read what he writes, then go check out the first block quote below. It has a geometric proof using spacetime diagrams.