How Possible Is It To Pull A Cave Johnson?

[Spacescifi]

 

For a scifi scenario consider this setting: A multi-billion dollar company has a CEO who wants to do science at all costs...even if that means lives must be lost in the process.

Basically he tries to pull a Cave Johnson from Portal 2.

 

 

Cave offered human testing to the homeless, knowing good and well some of if not several may not make it through the tests alive...and we know that from the red stains in the test rooms.

 

So is the following setting remotely plausible in our world?

If so or not, what would increase or support plausibility?

Ignore the company's ridiculously high bioengineering skills and focus on whether the world would let them even get away with this.

The setting:

1. Multi-billion dollar company that started out with a founder who cured cancer, now has billions of dollars. Currently known for growing designer humanoids for sale...basically humanoid scifi 'aliens'. Since aliens did not exist and there was a market for them so they made them. Either altering behavior, intelligence, strength, lifespan and etc in the process. Ironically nekos ARE NOT a thing even though they could do it, since the current CEO hates that idea. They do have an alternative of sorts though, just not so...um furry. And yes...the humanoids CAN reproduce their own kind via normal reproduction with another of their kind.

2. They sell them as personal servants or as citizens of nations for countries that want them. Since they are designed to have traits and abilities higher than the average baseline human. One type is able to speak several words with meaning after  the first month they're born as an infant, and can also hold their breath under water for several minutes without any special equipment. Others are more geared for other traits, even having retractable claws etc. In all cases they look DIFFERENT. As in odd skin/hair/eye color, so as to easily ID them as a company product.

3. They literally bought a country of their own and renamed it. Located somewhere along the equator. I think the Congo may be a good choice...only because it is not so highly developed and they would welcome the cash influx and tech.

4. In the country they own they perform 'tests'  on the homeless after paying them a few hundred dollars each...just like Cave Johnnson. Sometimes they survive...other times...yeah you already know.

 

So how plausible is it the world would let them get away with all this LOL?

Edited May 3, 2021 by Spacescifi

[cubinator]

Black Mesa was evidently no better...Administrator Breen pushed forward with a test that was tearing their equipment apart, with scientists having to rush through risk assessments of possibly tearing a hole into another dimension...He may have been reluctant to do these things for the G-Man at first, but when the experiment did go wrong, he accepted intermediate rule of the Earth under the new alien overlords. So Portal's world has two such CEOs.

I think a good measure of how realistic this kind of stuff is would be to imagine the maximum amount of bad stuff you would tolerate from real CEOs like Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos before protesting. Long hours and harsh working conditions? Exploiting the poor and homeless? Sentient AI experiments? Mantis men? Tumors and asbestos? Alien vivisections? Xen crystal experiments? Ask yourself where is the line between well-meaning visionary and villain.

[kerbiloid]

District 9.
Wikus knows best.

[Spacescifi]

37 minutes ago, cubinator said:

Black Mesa was evidently no better...Administrator Breen pushed forward with a test that was tearing their equipment apart, with scientists having to rush through risk assessments of possibly tearing a hole into another dimension...He may have been reluctant to do these things for the G-Man at first, but when the experiment did go wrong, he accepted intermediate rule of the Earth under the new alien overlords. So Portal's world has two such CEOs.

I think a good measure of how realistic this kind of stuff is would be to imagine the maximum amount of bad stuff you would tolerate from real CEOs like Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos before protesting. Long hours and harsh working conditions? Exploiting the poor and homeless? Sentient AI experiments? Mantis men? Tumors and asbestos? Alien vivisections? Xen crystal experiments? Ask yourself where is the line between well-meaning visionary and villain.

 

I guess...I mean as the saying goes...."Dead don't tell tales".

As far as ethics go...my version of crazy billionaire science company has managed the humanoid thing well...the rejects do NOT get sold. Only the successes.

To grow a 'scifi' humanoid from scratch requires a baseline human mother who is 'prepped' BEFORE pregancy. The embyro is taken AFTER pregnancy and put inside a living exowomb that is nonsapient, but nonetheless modifies the baseline human embyro to take on the desired modifications for the 'scifi' humanoid they are trying to sell.

The only drawback for the human mother volunteer is she will be sterile for life after. But she is reimbursed well.

About nine or so months later you get the result. Meanwhile lab scientists rock the exowomb around gently regularly and speak to it, just to give the baby the simulation of a NORMAL mother's womb even though it is'nt.

The other stuff they do that results in more deaths than survival rates they do their best to keep secret.

 

That said, it is a lot more efficient to grow the humanoid population by having them simply reproduce among themselves as adults, which they do.

 

 

Edited May 3, 2021 by Spacescifi

[SOXBLOX]

Transhumanism is not my favorite SF trope. In fact, it may be my least favorite. Why? Because it's beyond unrealistic. So, I vote for 3.

[Spacescifi]

9 minutes ago, SOXBLOX said:

Transhumanism is not my favorite SF trope. In fact, it may be my least favorite. Why? Because it's beyond unrealistic. So, I vote for 3.

 

That's fine. Superheroes are the same though.

At any rate, it explains the humanoid 'alien' nicely WITHOUT a ton of worldbuilding required as an afterthought for an interesting character.

 

Scifi aliens have always been what we wished...and this is about that....only for real.

Edited May 3, 2021 by Spacescifi

[kerbiloid]

What says PETA?

[mikegarrison]

2 hours ago, cubinator said:

Mantis men?

Being a mantis man is a valid lifestyle choice.

[Scotius]

Most powerful man on Earth could not keep a secret the fact, he was boinking his secretary\assistant\whatever.

I think it says something about human race We love gossiping too much to keep any secret for long.

[Spacescifi]

9 minutes ago, Scotius said:

Most powerful man on Earth could not keep a secret the fact, he was boinking his secretary\assistant\whatever.

I think it says something about human race We love gossiping too much to keep any secret for long.

 

Quite right...secrets are bound to come to light sooner or later.

 

So I guess really good PR and being good friends with media moguls would help.

[KSK]

1 hour ago, mikegarrison said:

Being a mantis man is a valid lifestyle choice.

Although being a mantis woman may have longer term prospects.

[RCgothic]

An ever increasing population of transhumans requiring a baseline human mother to produce sounds like the potential pool of mothers is going to be proportionately declining.

Each mother being sterile after producing *one* offspring is not going to be sufficient to supply the rate of replacement.

IRL we currently need about 2.2 offspring per mother with a theoretically fully breeding population to maintain a stable population. If transhumans can't produce themselves that number will go up and up until it's unsupportable.

[kerbiloid]

1 hour ago, Scotius said:

Most powerful man on Earth ... his secretary\assistant\whatever.

Skeletor and Evil-Lyn are just colleagues.

***

Why modify the depilated bipedal monkey hardly optimized for all climatiezones of the Earth, except just for  fun?

Better make them interchangeable. Then you don't need to bring them back from Mars, just grow new ones.

[Spacescifi]

2 hours ago, RCgothic said:

An ever increasing population of transhumans requiring a baseline human mother to produce sounds like the potential pool of mothers is going to be proportionately declining.

Each mother being sterile after producing *one* offspring is not going to be sufficient to supply the rate of replacement.

IRL we currently need about 2.2 offspring per mother with a theoretically fully breeding population to maintain a stable population. If transhumans can't produce themselves that number will go up and up until it's unsupportable.

The transhumans actually do reproduce over that number. The company made sure of that. Public does have conspiracy theories about world domination, but company says that is absurd and bad for business.

Profits and all you know.

It's not exactly difficult to get humans to want to reproduce...much less transhumans who often have modified behavior patterns anyway.

They are still capable of free will though.

The first succesful market version was designed to be a slave race but essentially backfired because:

1. They learn and retain info better than baseline humans.

2. Due to this AND the backfired attempt to hardwire them as slaves they tend to view the most intelligent person they know as a potential master, and anyone of lesser intelligence compared to themselves as potential slaves.

3. They are known for both high intellligence and stubborness. Yet if they do choose a personal master for life they are loyal to a fault, their master's death, or until they choose another mastet for life. That said, they do not take this decision lightly and don't make it whimslically either.

4. Lifespans for all of this type barring injury or disease are 100 years, durimg which they don't even age past their prime adulthood. They stay in their prime until their death birthday of a hundred. During which they age rapidly until they due when they go to sleep at night.

5. Due to exposure to human religions, sometimes it has occurred that transhumans of this type join them and even choose a deity as their master for life instead of the usual human or transhuman master. In all cases they remain loyal for life unless they decide to choose another master. Since gods don't die if one believes in them.

Edited May 3, 2021 by Spacescifi

[KSK]

I don’t think the ‘selling designer alien slaves’ scenario is remotely possible.

Even assuming that the less than ethical manufacturing process could be hidden for long, the product itself is not going to be socially acceptable. Think of what a hot button topic immigration can be and the reasons why some people are vociferously against it. Now apply those reasons to visibly non-human freaks who may also be smarter or stronger than most humans.

Yeah, that’s not going to end well.

Sadly, I think it’s more likely that your budding Cave Johnson will end up (willingly or otherwise) working for a government. The military applications of that kind of super science are rather obvious, if somewhat cliched. 

 

[Spacescifi]

11 minutes ago, KSK said:

I don’t think the ‘selling designer alien slaves’ scenario is remotely possible.

Even assuming that the less than ethical manufacturing process could be hidden for long, the product itself is not going to be socially acceptable. Think of what a hot button topic immigration can be and the reasons why some people are vociferously against it. Now apply those reasons to visibly non-human freaks who may also be smarter or stronger than most humans.

Yeah, that’s not going to end well.

Sadly, I think it’s more likely that your budding Cave Johnson will end up (willingly or otherwise) working for a government. The military applications of that kind of super science are rather obvious, if somewhat cliched. 

 

 

They don't market them as slaves though!

 

They sell them as adopted upgraded babies. But I totally see your pont though.

 

And the business model ensurs they look more like these or even star trek aliens than truly ugly montrosities.

 

Spoiler

 

Although there IS a niche market for scary and ugly too.

Edited May 3, 2021 by Spacescifi

[kerbiloid]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprachicos

[YNM]

We had slavery in the past, and puppet governments in the recent past (and arguably today).

We had Bob Murray, who just recently died after applying for black lung benefits (and probably after being made into a musical too).

There's still Xinjiang, Turkmenistan and North Korea.

 

Don't think the world isn't cruel, folks.

[SOXBLOX]

3 hours ago, Spacescifi said:

They are still capable of free will though.

That's the issue, isn't it? These babies don't get a say in whether they're modified or not. They're forced to have abnormalities forever, and are forever distinct from humanity. Ech. No thank you.

3 hours ago, KSK said:

not going to be socially acceptable.

Not to mention the fact that in a future with the tech for this (I don't think it's even possible) there will be no need for servitude like this.

So, that's why I feel transhumanism isn't a very good choice for even mildly realistic SF.

[kerbiloid]

Kerbals. Make the Kerbals!

[Spacescifi]

39 minutes ago, SOXBLOX said:

That's the issue, isn't it? These babies don't get a say in whether they're modified or not. They're forced to have abnormalities forever, and are forever distinct from humanity. Ech. No thank you.

Not to mention the fact that in a future with the tech for this (I don't think it's even possible) there will be no need for servitude like this.

So, that's why I feel transhumanism isn't a very good choice for even mildly realistic SF.

 

The needs of man are finite.

The wants of man are infinite. I would like to think that infinite want and greed are NOT the same thing...but I am not so sure of that. Surely they are somewhat related even if not exactly the same.

Man see, man want. Man think, man want.

They are sold as adopted transhuman babies. 

No one actually legally owns them...except in cases where governments purchase them for specific job roles. 

Illegally the industry is large enough that the oldest profession and black market deals still occur, which the company does not support but cannot stop either.

Evil finds a way, just like life will.

32 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

Kerbals. Make the Kerbals!

 

They could...not sure if they could make them as durable though.

Edited May 3, 2021 by Spacescifi

[king of nowhere]

the problem with human experiments is that humans are terrible test experiments.

take a mouse. a mouse lives in a small cage on very small amounts of food. it makes no problems. it breeds fast, so you can get a lot of them for testing.

a man has nothing of that. a man is expensive to grow and expensive to keep. you want to make a test on how something affects men through generations, the test is going to take decades.

and the data you get is not even particularly informative

the pedants did human testing on their prisoners, and they never discovered anything useful. there's a reason for it

[cubinator]

2 hours ago, SOXBLOX said:

That's the issue, isn't it? These babies don't get a say in whether they're modified or not. They're forced to have abnormalities forever, and are forever distinct from humanity. Ech. No thank you.

I agree. I would rather see a future in which such modifications can be done surgically and consensually, everyone lives in a virtual universe where they can choose their form at will, or everyone is an android who can simply upload their mind into whichever hyperadvanced mechanical body they choose. Or everyone is a shapeshifter, but that one seems less realistic.

"Designer babies" is a thing that has been talked about, and my impression is that it would pretty quickly be made illegal in most countries.

Edited May 3, 2021 by cubinator

[SOXBLOX]

1 hour ago, Spacescifi said:

The wants of man are infinite.

Yeah, but really, slavery has historically been an economic drag. Machines bear greater economic fruit.

And this stuff has huge moral implications. Transhumanism is basically eugenics with the serial numbers filed off. And anyone who sells humans is classed as hostis humani generis under the law of the sea. Maybe future governments extend this to include anyone who modifies another sentient being without consent?

I would expect that that could be applied to the "Space is an Ocean" trope. So, people who do this could be put to death. Just sayin'.

[YNM]

6 minutes ago, SOXBLOX said:

but really, slavery has historically been an economic drag. Machines bear greater economic fruit.

Wondering how they made these...

Now yes more advanced technology means we can do even better. But it doesn't mean that we can do *everything* much better. Construction still uses a lot of manpower for a reason. While automation works in a factory, if you're competing against workers who're only paid for a fraction of what you pay your machine operators then they're still going to win in the price category. Even better if they also can use the exact same automation processes and pay the operators cheaper, and the maintainers cheaper.

1 hour ago, king of nowhere said:

a man is expensive to grow and expensive to keep.

Human experiments have historically been carried out on those part of the population deemed inferior. Don't think we're completely out of the woods from that.

12 minutes ago, cubinator said:

everyone lives in a virtual universe where they can choose their form at will, or everyone is an android who can simply upload their mind into whichever hyperadvanced mechanical body they choose.

So... this ?