How Possible Is It To Pull A Cave Johnson?

[Spacescifi]

5 minutes ago, cubinator said:

If you can make that happen, go right ahead. I believe we wouldn't know how to do that for a long time, even as other changes became possible. In fact, I believe it would be one of the last things we ever figure out how to do along these lines. So I think early stages of this research would be most unethical, rendering the later "everyone is happy" version not worth the monstrous practices required to achieve it.

 

 Cannot make an omelette without cracking eggs they say....

[YNM]

On 5/4/2021 at 11:37 AM, kerbiloid said:

Furry won't ever become a mainstream.

Looks over Korean and Japanese FPS pro players which have non-human avatars

2 hours ago, cubinator said:

What does it matter what the CEO thinks? These beings he's playing with like toys are living, breathing people! What do THEY think? Do they want to be what they are? Are they free to walk away and pursue a life, any life, of their own? Or will they forever be boxed in to some subset of human activities, societal roles, and jobs by the modifications imposed on them without their consent? 

1. It had happened in the past and

2. It's not too long before it gets ingrained.

Mind you that OP's question was related to "could something unethical happen" and the answer is yes, both in history and in the future...

Edited May 8, 2021 by YNM

[SOXBLOX]

4 hours ago, Spacescifi said:

Alphas for example believe slavery....at least THEIR form of it is fine. Namely where THEY choose their master and the master is obligated to look after their welfare for life.

So you assume beliefs like this can be genetically hard-coded? Or do you propose putting these people through brainwashing?

[Spacescifi]

12 minutes ago, SOXBLOX said:

So you assume beliefs like this can be genetically hard-coded? Or do you propose putting these people through brainwashing?

 

It's fiction....not reality.

But for the fiction...oh yeah it's hard coded. Part of what makes them Alphas and not...us.

And at best one might...persuade an Alpha with difficulty given their superiir intelligence?

Brainwashing? Not likely. Would be a feat to pull off on an Alpha.

Granted....one may call into question religious Alphas...but all an Alpha has to do is agree with something to actually support it....regardless of ethics or truth, false, right or wrong.

Yet convincing them to change their mind? Difficult.

Edited May 9, 2021 by Spacescifi

[kerbiloid]

Thou shalt enjoy. It's full of that.

https://www.goodreads.com/series/87293-the-emancipator

[Spacescifi]

19 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

Thou shalt enjoy. It's full of that.

https://www.goodreads.com/series/87293-the-emancipator

 

Not exactly...since the Alpha form of slavery is by choice of the slave.

It's a lifestyle choice. If they don't like a person to begin with they won't choose them as their master.

It's more an individual matter than an economic one for Alphas.

 

Which is a good deal different from what humans think of when they hear the word slavery.

[kerbiloid]

4 hours ago, Spacescifi said:

by choice of the slave

Is it only me who sees some contradiction here?

4 hours ago, Spacescifi said:

It's a lifestyle choice.

Done before the chooser's birth?

[Spacescifi]

17 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

Is it only me who sees some contradiction here?

Done before the chooser's birth?

Yes LOL?

Uh huh...you could say the same about the hard wired human tendency to want to procreate even when it is not necessary.

And yet I don't see people complaining en mass about that LOL.

Nevermind the fact that is an individual choice whether one does or does not do that.

 

Edited May 10, 2021 by Spacescifi

[kerbiloid]

18 minutes ago, Spacescifi said:

Yes LOL?

Uh huh...you could say the same about the hard wired human tendency to want to procreate even when it is not necessary.

And yet I don't see people complaining en mass about that LOL.

Nevermind the fact that is an individual choice whether one does or does not do that.

 

Are you sold for somebody's fun?

[Spacescifi]

6 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

Are you sold for somebody's fun?

 

I see your point, but legally it is just paying extra for super abilityl adopted children.

 

Legally they would be citizens like any other.

Illegal slavery does occur, but an Alpha does not consider anyone who enslaves them against their will their master anyway.

Will escape at first or best opportunity to do so.

[kerbiloid]

21 minutes ago, Spacescifi said:

adopted children.

Aren't slaves.

21 minutes ago, Spacescifi said:

Legally they would be citizens like any other.

This annihilates the idea of citizenship in whole, as it's based on subjects, not on objects.

[SOXBLOX]

14 hours ago, Spacescifi said:

by choice of the slave.

Can they leave when they please? Are they compensated for their services? (Room and board counts.)

If yes, then you have invented employees.

8 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

This annihilates the idea of citizenship in whole, as it's based on subjects, not on objects.

This is absolutely true.

And on a civilizational level, we have to worry about this, too. Slavery has always been an economic drag, and a cultural time bomb waiting to go off. It could destroy a lot of civilizations. Better in the long run to not have it around.

9 hours ago, Spacescifi said:

huh...you could say the same about the hard wired human...

No, you couldn't. That's something in which you have a choice. This "Alpha slavery" isn't like that. It causes subservience, and the giving up of natural rights. The other thing doesn't.

Anyway, can you imagine what would happen to a billionaire guy who said, "Hey, I've got some genetically engineered slaves to sell!" nowadays? Both sides in American politics would burn him alive. Do you have any ideas on how to change those ideas, so the populace would be amenable to the suggestion?

Edited May 10, 2021 by SOXBLOX
Clarified.

[Spacescifi]

1 hour ago, SOXBLOX said:

Can they leave when they please? Are they compensated for their services? (Room and board counts.)

If yes, then you have invented employees.

This is absolutely true.

And on a civilizational level, we have to worry about this, too. Slavery has always been an economic drag, and a cultural time bomb waiting to go off. It could destroy a lot of civilizations. Better in the long run to not have it around.

No, you couldn't. That's something in which you have a choice. This "Alpha slavery" isn't like that. It causes subservience, and the giving up of natural rights. The other thing doesn't.

Anyway, can you imagine what would happen to a billionaire guy who said, "Hey, I've got some genetically engineered slaves to sell!" nowadays? Both sides in American politics would burn him alive. Do you have any ideas on how to change those ideas, so the populace would be amenable to the suggestion?

SOME countries would be OK. Even the 'free' countries

Especially when it becomes a cold war of sorts given the beyond human abilites they have everyone will want to have an edge.

[DDE]

On 5/3/2021 at 5:00 AM, Spacescifi said:

So how plausible is it the world would let them get away with all this LOL?

Exceptionally difficult. Much of the modern "free market" runs on respectability and reputation. These would cause a major hit to one very critical aspect of any megacorporation: its bank accounts. You can very easily get locked out of the world's financial system if you're seen as a PR nightmare, even if no government officially persecutes you - and with the rise of ESG et cetera the respectability considerations are beginning to outweigh the profit-making motive.

[Shpaget]

51 minutes ago, DDE said:

Much of the modern "free market" runs on respectability and reputation

Chocolate industry has been using child slaves for decades without problem, with only recently the issue being raised at all.

[DDE]

40 minutes ago, Shpaget said:

Chocolate industry has been using child slaves for decades without problem, with only recently the issue being raised at all.

Yes, well, that's where the schizoid nature of "respectability" comes in.

[kerbiloid]

7 hours ago, Shpaget said:

Chocolate industry has been using child slaves for decades without problem, with only recently the issue being raised at all.

The oompa-loompa.

[YNM]

8 hours ago, DDE said:

These would cause a major hit to one very critical aspect of any megacorporation: its bank accounts. You can very easily get locked out of the world's financial system if you're seen as a PR nightmare, even if no government officially persecutes you - and with the rise of ESG et cetera the respectability considerations are beginning to outweigh the profit-making motive.

looks at stock speculation and cryptocurrency, completely the offspring of the "financial" sector

There's still Phillip Morris and then there's whoever is making plastic. (the latter is apparently strong enough they've actually made you unable to watch it as is.)

8 hours ago, Shpaget said:

Chocolate industry has been using child slaves for decades without problem, with only recently the issue being raised at all.

You mean... it wasn't the oompa-loompas ? (or was that actually a clever commentary on the real situation...)

[DDE]

17 minutes ago, YNM said:

stock speculation

This one isn't even considdred unethical.

Interesting that you wouldn't mention coal, nuclear energy, and arms, the three categories that are being increasingly denied banking service (the lack of oil in that list is quite interesting).

[kerbiloid]

7 hours ago, DDE said:

the schizoid nature of "respectability"

Though I'm not a fan of Harry Potter and Yudkovski's "Bayesian" cult, his fanfic describes the situation well.

The "respectability" means "predictability". 

[YNM]

6 hours ago, DDE said:

Interesting that you wouldn't mention coal, nuclear energy, and arms, the three categories that are being increasingly denied banking service (the lack of oil in that list is quite interesting).

I guess only because it's too obvious... Would like to add palm oil, our main export.

EDIT : I very clearly had it listed earliest though (Coal).

On 5/3/2021 at 7:19 PM, YNM said:

We had Bob Murray, who just recently died after applying for black lung benefits (and probably after being made into a musical too).

It is only in the US though. Here it's a different dark story still. Probably a lot more other places with similar if not worse dark story.

 

6 hours ago, DDE said:

This one isn't even considered unethical.

Depending on who you're doing it to and who's seeing it I suppose.

Edited May 11, 2021 by YNM

[Shpaget]

6 hours ago, YNM said:

You mean... it wasn't the oompa-loompas ? (or was that actually a clever commentary on the real situation...)

I mean real children kidnapped, or bought from parents, and forced to work for no pay, living on starvation sized portions of inadequate food, beaten for refusing to work or trying to escape.

No joke, no exageration or hyperbole. Real slavery in the most disgusting form.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/feb/12/mars-nestle-and-hershey-to-face-landmark-child-slavery-lawsuit-in-us

[YNM]

8 minutes ago, Shpaget said:

No joke, no exageration or hyperbole. Real slavery in the most disgusting form.

mars-nestle-and-hershey-to-face-landmark-child-slavery-lawsuit-in-us

... And I thought naming your chocolate after the country was bad enough.

[Spacescifi]

15 hours ago, DDE said:

Yes, well, that's where the schizoid nature of "respectability" comes in.

 

Alpha slaves really don't have it like humans do so long they are owned BY Alphas.

In a way, Alphas view slavery as a binding lifelong till death union between slave and master till death....like marriage almost. Minus the romance and procreation.

Are they paid?  No. But they can still work regular jobs on the side and get paid.

Usually Alpha masters are wealthy enough to hire out some of their own Alpha slaves as workers as well.

Slaves work paid jobs less than nonslaves if an Alpha master likes their slave work, usually working more nonpaid slave work at their home

Free room and food from master is provided.

Slaves can be released by the slave choosing another master or the master releasing them from duty orthe master's death.

Alphas do not SELL slaves for money.

Which is a bit ironic as the company sells them as infants as super ability scifi 'alien' citizens.

Alphas know how humans view slavery in a diferent way, and actually loathe human slavery. Humans make unreliable slaves....according to Alphas. So they prefer Alphas anyway.

 

 

Edited May 11, 2021 by Spacescifi

[kerbiloid]

1 hour ago, Spacescifi said:

Slaves work paid job

(facepalm)