[1.9 - 1.12+] TrekDrive - A Star Trek-like Warp Drive by ShadowWorks v1.0.4 The Refit Cometh [26/12/2024]

[Raptor22]

On 9/23/2021 at 11:08 AM, TheShadow1138 said:

 

From testing the best explanation is that the atmospheric drag on the nacelles is the root cause.  There are no lifting bodies defined on the NX.  What seems to be happening is that the center of mass is below the nacelles on the standard variant A, and above the nacelles on variant B, so there is asymmetrical drag while in atmosphere.  This causes a pitch up, or down, and then the larger drag cube of the saucer acts like a sail to really kick the pitching into high gear.

Try starting with the throttle at 1/4, if I remember correctly that is what I tended to use during testing, 1/3 might be too much for the NX in atmosphere.  I know it can feel like a chore to get it to orbit, and I often just cheated it to orbit, I mean these ships weren't meant to fly in atmosphere, in-universe anyway.  I do plan on seeing if we can use Extraplanetary Launchpads to construct the ships in orbit instead of having to start from the ground and babysit it to orbit, or cheat it to orbit.

As for a gimbal, it's not possible the way I have it coded.  The code applies the thrust directly to the COM so that impulse engines placed off axis do not cause unwanted torques.  This will almost certainly be necessary for the Constitution-class to behave as desired under impulse power.  The result of this is that gimbaling the impulse thrust would actually not work.  A torque is caused by a force applied to an object that is not directed through the COM.  The amount of torque is determined by multiplying the component of the force that is not directed through the COM by the distance from the COM.  This distance is called the "lever arm", the longer the lever arm the less force is required to cause a significant torque and rotation.  My code, however, always applies the force through the COM, and is therefore never off axis, and the lever arm is always of 0 length.  This means applying a gimbal would not cause any torques or rotation, it would actually just start pushing the ship down, up, left, right, or whatever direction would result from the applied input.

The I have given thought to converting the RCS to using LqdDeuterium for "realism", so that may happen.

Thanks!  I like seeing the progress from a few polygons to fully textured model and know others like seeing that evolution too.  Plus, it gives y'all an idea of where things are and that there is indeed progress.

So is there no way to have the center of thrust shift off-axis? Not by rotating, mind you, but by staying pointed the same direction, but moving up (causing a pitch down), down (pitch up), left (yaw right), and right (yaw left) relative to the COM - in other words, translating on a 2-axis plane. I'd think that even shifting the center of thrust a few meters would be enough to get a good translation going. Since it seems to follow the COM even as it shifts around (with fuel consumption, etc), I'd imagine that it wouldn't be unfeasible to have it shift off the COM.

Then again, despite having played KSP since around version 0.24.2, my knowledge of the internal workings of mods is still quite limited, much more so when it comes to plugins, so this may not be possible. 

 

As for flying in atmosphere, while the ships weren't necessarily built like spaceplanes, we did see several instances of the NX-class flying into a planet's atmosphere, and at least one that I can remember of the Consitution-Class entering the atmosphere (that one episode where they accidentally went back in time and ended up abducting a USAF pilot). The NX-class is probably more suited for atmospheric flight due to its more robust structure (stout pylons leading up to the nacelles, no thin neck for a secondary hull, etc.), and its sleeker lines compared to the Constitution-Class.

Sure, they weren't meant to land, like the Intrepid-Class, but being able to at least launch them, and then make dives down into an atmosphere for whatever reasons you need (to find a Suliban Helix, rescue a stranded Klingon vessel, or fight alternate timeline pedants in WW2) before ascending back up to orbit.

Either way, from now on I'll see if I an use Kerbal Konstructs + Kerbinside to launch the NX-class from some high-altitude bases up in the mountains so that I have less of the atmosphere to deal with.

 

At any rate, the drag on the nacelles doesn't explain why the shuttlepods are pitching up a lot. I'm always having to use RCS to wrangle those things under control, and their small tanks means that they run out of RCS pretty quickly. Is there a way that you could use a module like deployable lifting surfaces to turn the wings into lifting and/or control surfaces to help stabilize and control it during atmospheric flight? Because, without something like that, the wings might as well just be decorative.

 

Finally, on an unrelated note, at some point, are you considering adding the ventral docking bays on the NX-class? While we would have to use the aft-facing bays with the NX-Refit, it would be nice to use the ventral bays to dock with the normal NX-class like in the show. Perhaps I could combine it with stock robotics to have that boom arm that comes down to grab the shuttlepod and hoist it up into the bay. There's also those two cargo bays on the saucer section to the port and starboard (with the doors on the dorsal and ventral sides of the saucer - you may have seen it a few times in the show when they deployed one of those small work/inspection pods from there). I love to make ships like this highly functional, so the more cargo space available, the better.

Regardless, I'm loving this mod, and can't wait to see when the Constitution-Class is released!

[TheShadow1138]

17 hours ago, Raptor22 said:

So is there no way to have the center of thrust shift off-axis? Not by rotating, mind you, but by staying pointed the same direction, but moving up (causing a pitch down), down (pitch up), left (yaw right), and right (yaw left) relative to the COM - in other words, translating on a 2-axis plane. I'd think that even shifting the center of thrust a few meters would be enough to get a good translation going. Since it seems to follow the COM even as it shifts around (with fuel consumption, etc), I'd imagine that it wouldn't be unfeasible to have it shift off the COM.

Then again, despite having played KSP since around version 0.24.2, my knowledge of the internal workings of mods is still quite limited, much more so when it comes to plugins, so this may not be possible. 

I actually hadn't thought about it that way, but I would think that would work.  You've certainly got me thinking.  I would think that I'd be able to add a "maxVectorAngle" parameter to compute the components of the acceleration.  I would then just need to determine how far from the COM to place the force to create a useful torque.  That's just determining the acceleration and where to place them, I'll also need to find out what functions or parameters to use to get the input and make sure that the SAS would work.  I'm hoping that the functions or parameters are the same so the amount of code necessary to get it to work won't have to be doubled or more convoluted.  I'll definitely look into this since it will add more control to the ships.

18 hours ago, Raptor22 said:

As for flying in atmosphere, while the ships weren't necessarily built like spaceplanes, we did see several instances of the NX-class flying into a planet's atmosphere, and at least one that I can remember of the Consitution-Class entering the atmosphere (that one episode where they accidentally went back in time and ended up abducting a USAF pilot). The NX-class is probably more suited for atmospheric flight due to its more robust structure (stout pylons leading up to the nacelles, no thin neck for a secondary hull, etc.), and its sleeker lines compared to the Constitution-Class.

As you've said, thrust vectoring would probably make in-atmosphere control a bit more manageable.  My gut reaction to what the ships could do in the shows and movies is that they didn't have to worry about drag at all.  If they want the NX to fly at full impulse through Earth's atmosphere, or the much denser atmosphere of a gas giant, all they had to do was animate it, physics be damned.  In KSP we do have to worry about drag, though technically I could define custom drag cubes that were extremely small to cheat the system.  I don't really want to do that as I want to keep as much realism as possible.  I know that warp drive is often seen as a "cheat", but there is real world physics behind it, and the impulse engines are really just augmented fusion rockets.  The impulse engine's, as coded, are more of a cheat since the thrust is directly applied to the COM, but this is again because the shows and movies can just ignore physics and design ships that look cool, but aren't necessarily practical in physical simulation.

18 hours ago, Raptor22 said:

At any rate, the drag on the nacelles doesn't explain why the shuttlepods are pitching up a lot. I'm always having to use RCS to wrangle those things under control, and their small tanks means that they run out of RCS pretty quickly. Is there a way that you could use a module like deployable lifting surfaces to turn the wings into lifting and/or control surfaces to help stabilize and control it during atmospheric flight? Because, without something like that, the wings might as well just be decorative

The shuttlepod does suffer from the same "sail effect" as the NX, it's just that what initiates the pitch is different.  With the NX the nacelles cause the initial pitch, and determine the direction of the pitch, which turns the saucer into a "sail".  With the shuttlepod, we cause the initial pitch.  When the pod starts out traveling in one direction and accelerating, its cross-sectional area is small along the direction of travel.  Once any pitch or yaw is made, that cross-sectional area increases creating more drag, which causes the same "sail effect".  The same thing happens with a regular rocket made from stock or modded parts.  If you make a pitch or yaw maneuver with a rocket that is going say less than 100m/s, there may not be an issue (SAS can cancel out any torque added by drag), but if you have a decent sized rocket traveling over 300m/s at 10,000m of altitude, and try to pitch down 5º, there could be a lot of problems very quickly.

For now, we just need to be gentle with throttle application in-atmosphere.  If the atmospheric effects are showing up, then slowing down would be a good idea before trying to alter course.  I know this is not the best solution, but it is flyable in atmosphere if you keep an eye on your throttle and speed.  As I said, I am going to work on getting thrust vectoring to work, which should help this problem, but I don't know when it may be available.

18 hours ago, Raptor22 said:

Finally, on an unrelated note, at some point, are you considering adding the ventral docking bays on the NX-class? While we would have to use the aft-facing bays with the NX-Refit, it would be nice to use the ventral bays to dock with the normal NX-class like in the show. Perhaps I could combine it with stock robotics to have that boom arm that comes down to grab the shuttlepod and hoist it up into the bay. There's also those two cargo bays on the saucer section to the port and starboard (with the doors on the dorsal and ventral sides of the saucer - you may have seen it a few times in the show when they deployed one of those small work/inspection pods from there). I love to make ships like this highly functional, so the more cargo space available, the better.

There are no plans to make the ventral docking bays operational.  When I was making the model I thought about how to do the shuttle bays a lot.  At one point I was going to make the bay a separate part that would be part switchable to the refit version where only the two forward bay doors would be operational.  I decided, however, that that option added an extra part that didn't absolutely need to be there and I considered part switching the entire saucer.  During that time I was completely ignoring the aft bays, and I thought that docking in the ventral bays on the refit would be potentially more trouble than it was worth and that maybe only the most die-hard accuracy players would want to put up with that potential hassle.  When I realized that the aft bays were equally accessible in the standard configuration and the refit configuration, coupled with the info that NX-class ships only had two shuttlepods embarked, I decided that the aft bays were the best solution for playability.

I will say that @Puggonaut was able to use robotics (I don't remember right off if it was Infernal Robotics, or the stock Breaking Ground robotics) to have an extendable arm that can grab the shuttlepod and retract it into the non-modeled ventral bay to kinda emulate ventral launching.  The colliders are set up in such a way that this is safe to do, and if you'd like to do that that certainly is an option.  I just have no plans or desires to add an operational ventral bay to the NX

On the topic of cargo space, I probably do need to add inventory space to the ship so that one could deliver cargo and supplies to deep space stations, colonies, and whatnot.  I am planning on adding transporters after the Constitution release that would, hopefully, allow beaming of crew and cargo in inventory to other vessels/stations, and the surface of planets/moons.  Once that's available I'll definitely make certain that there is plenty of inventory space on the NX and Constitution to be useful.

[Puggonaut]

16 hours ago, TheShadow1138 said:

I will say that @Puggonaut was able to use robotics (I don't remember right off if it was Infernal Robotics, or the stock Breaking Ground robotics) to have an extendable arm that can grab the shuttlepod and retract it into the non-modeled ventral bay to kinda emulate ventral launching.  The colliders are set up in such a way that this is safe to do, and if you'd like to do that that certainly is an option.  I just have no plans or desires to add an operational ventral bay to the NX

On the topic of cargo space, I probably do need to add inventory space to the ship so that one could deliver cargo and supplies to deep space stations, colonies, and whatnot.  I am planning on adding transporters after the Constitution release that would, hopefully, allow beaming of crew and cargo in inventory to other vessels/stations, and the surface of planets/moons.  Once that's available I'll definitely make certain that there is plenty of inventory space on the NX and Constitution to be useful.

It was Infernal Robotics , pretty easy to do as well .

[TheShadow1138]

v1.0.1 - Thrust Vectoring Update

v1.0.1 - Thrust Vectoring
* Updated plugin to add thrust vectoring to impulse engines.
  Thrust vectoring is toggleable in the PAW and by Action Group
* Added a new parameter to impulse engine CFGs, "maxVectorAngle" a value in degrees
  to control the amount of vectoring.  Default value is 15º.

This is a relatively small update, but should provide a lot more control for in-atmosphere flight.  In testing the NX can be flown in-atmosphere at full throttle with no loss of control or unwanted pitching.  The shuttlepod also appears to be more controllable in-atmosphere as well, which is to be expected.

On the Constitution, texturing continues with the paneling.

[MonkeyCan'tDock]

So I'm one of those horrible people who likes IVA flying. I know I should never ask, but are there any plans to make the NX IVA more interactive? Examples: Using the engineer seat to execute the Warp Drive activation sequence or allowing the science seat to plan maneuver nodes via MFD?

I'd alter it myself but I am still a novice at modding and that bridge interior looks complicated when it comes to placing MAS/RPM/ASET etc. assets.

P.S. I've been waiting for a mod like this for years, so if nothing else, congratulations! It is incredible!

Edited September 29, 2021 by MonkeyCan'tDock

[Puggonaut]

Jeb we need you to test the Thrust Vectoring , Jeb "Ok "

 

[TheShadow1138]

14 hours ago, MonkeyCan'tDock said:

So I'm one of those horrible people who likes IVA flying. I know I should never ask, but are there any plans to make the NX IVA more interactive? Examples: Using the engineer seat to execute the Warp Drive activation sequence or allowing the science seat to plan maneuver nodes via MFD?

I'd alter it myself but I am still a novice at modding and that bridge interior looks complicated when it comes to placing MAS/RPM/ASET etc. assets.

P.S. I've been waiting for a mod like this for years, so if nothing else, congratulations! It is incredible!

I've thought about that, even going as far as contemplating custom MFDs that would look like LCARS displays.  That would also allow the main viewer to possibly be used like in the shows.  The problem, however, is the sheer amount of work and time that would be necessary for all the textures and configs is significant as I understand how MAS MFDs work.  So, it might happen at some point, but it won't be until I've gotten more parts/ships released.  So, for now the bridge IVAs will just be pretty things to look at, but serve no real purpose otherwise.

Thank you, and I hope you continue to enjoy it and that it only gets better.

8 hours ago, Puggonaut said:

Jeb we need you to test the Thrust Vectoring , Jeb "Ok "

 

Awesome moves there Jeb.  Love the jump to warp at the end.

[TheShadow1138]

Texturing Update:  I finally finished the panels on the Engineering Hull, the most tedious part of texturing.  As you can see, the windows, and other markings are now present and I think looking good.  The nav deflector also has its textures as well as the shuttlebay doors and formation lights.  I haven't started with the shuttlebay markings yet because I want to mark out "parking spaces" for the shuttles, so I need to work out the length and width dimensions of the shuttlecraft.  I'm thinking of a kinda updated Galileo type shuttle, that will, hopefully, be recognizable as a Galileo-like shuttle, but maybe with some sleeker lines.  And now, pics...

Port Elevation

1/4 View

Navigational Deflector close-up

Ventral Markings

Dorsal Markings

Other than the shuttlebay markings, I still need to do the specular, normal, and emissive maps, but those typically come quickly once the base diffuse texture is done.  It shouldn't be too much longer (hopefully) until the Engineering Section textures are complete.

[TheShadow1138]

Engineering Hull Textures Complete!

Port Elevation

Showing off non-uniform specular

Navigational Deflector normal mapping

Fantail

Shuttlebay interior

There is enough room, and spaces marked out for 4 Galileo-type shuttlecraft (Type-F).  I haven't included any of the faux lighting effects in the emissive yet as I still need to determine where I want/need those "lights".  I'm going to put an actual light in the shuttlebay, so no faux lighting there.  On to the nacelles!

[TheShadow1138]

Constitution-class Textures (pretty much) Complete!
The textures are pretty much complete except for all of the faux lighting.  Some of the faux lighting is present on the nacelles (registry lights and glow from the field emitters.  I do still need to set up the registry meshes, but I'm getting close to being able to get the parts in-game.

Port Elevation

Forward Elevation

Aft Elevation

Dorsal Plan View

Ventral Plan View

Aft 3/4 View

Field Emitter Faux Glow

Edit:  Here's a few pics showing the registry meshes and all of the faux lighting, except for the fantail lighting.

 

Edited October 7, 2021 by TheShadow1138

[Puggonaut]

That's looking rather good , another excellant add on for my Star Trek addiction .

[ribone]

Can't wait to play with the Constitution version of Enterprise!  Keep up the awesome work!  Now that we have starships, part of me is wondering how hard it would be to implement transporter beams.  I'd love to be able to send a red shirt or two down to Eve without risking  my gorgeous hull.

[TheShadow1138]

9 hours ago, Puggonaut said:

That's looking rather good , another excellant add on for my Star Trek addiction .

 

3 hours ago, ribone said:

Can't wait to play with the Constitution version of Enterprise!  Keep up the awesome work!

Thanks!  I whipped up an alternate white/light gray texture with red bussards because...reasons, which I actually like a lot.  I have gotten the parts exported from Blender and some config files roughed out so that once I get the parts into Unity and exported to the game it will be easy to quickly build out the ship.  It would then just be a matter of fine tuning the CFGs for release.  Here's a pic of the texture variant:

 

Quote

Now that we have starships, part of me is wondering how hard it would be to implement transporter beams.  I'd love to be able to send a red shirt or two down to Eve without risking  my gorgeous hull.

This is actually a planned feature.  There was once a mod, LCARS, that added impulse engines, transporters, and a host of other things Star Trek related so there's plenty for me to look at for inspiration on the transporter front.  From my early investigations, transporting kerbals from a vessel to another vessel should be fairly easy, and I think from a vessel to the surface of a planet or moon should also be fairly easy (maybe a bit harder than ship-to-ship).  I would also like to be able to provide y'all the option to transport cargo from inventory slots.  This would allow you to re-supply outposts/colonies without having to rely on shuttles, or allow you to get more to the surface quickly.  Of course, there will be shuttlecraft as well, so there's that too.

I can't give an ETA on transporters, but it will probably be once the Constitution-class and related parts are released.  So, this encompasses the ship I've been working on, the Constitution Refit, and since it wouldn't be but two (four at the most) parts, a Miranda-class to go with the above Constitution-class, and the "refit" Miranda-class seen in The Wrath of Khan and TNG/DS9/others.  So, once the two versions of the Constitution-class and Miranda-class, and at least the Type-F shuttlecraft (a new take on the Galileo-type shuttle) are released that's most likely when I plan to start really working on getting the transporters to work.

[ribone]

All of that sounds amazing.  I never realized some other mod had already done beaming before.  I don't know if you need any help that I'd be able to provide, but I have a software engineering background, centered mostly around devops type things like kubernetes,  pipelines for CI/CD, scripting of various flavors and deploying production software to a cloud.  I'm no good with 3d models (and I have zero experience modding), but if there's something you think you could use a hand with, I'd be happy to poke around and try to help.

Regardless, kudos to you again for some amazing looking stuff!

[Puggonaut]

Q ? will this have the refit Nacelles from the first  Star Trek Movie . the oblong versions , well they sort of look like that .

Oh yeah the red bussards version looks proper and rather amazing .

Edited October 11, 2021 by Puggonaut

[TheShadow1138]

8 hours ago, Puggonaut said:

Q ? will this have the refit Nacelles from the first  Star Trek Movie . the oblong versions , well they sort of look like that .

Oh yeah the red bussards version looks proper and rather amazing .

The refit will be a pure replica of the film version of the Enterprise, so yes.  The film version is my absolute favorite version of the 1701, though the DISCO version is a close second.  I originally wanted the version I'm working on now to be the DISCO version, but I couldn't find good schematic views of the DISCO version.  There is a fan-made model with schematic renders, but there are various differences between it and the on-screen version.  Also, the fan-made renders did not use lighting that would permit ease of use in the modeling process.  So, I decided to make my own version blending various versions together while also making the film refit more of a refit than a complete rebuild.  My intention was always to make the refit version from the films to go along with this one.

[Puggonaut]

13 hours ago, TheShadow1138 said:

The refit will be a pure replica of the film version of the Enterprise, so yes.  The film version is my absolute favorite version of the 1701, though the DISCO version is a close second.  I originally wanted the version I'm working on now to be the DISCO version, but I couldn't find good schematic views of the DISCO version.  There is a fan-made model with schematic renders, but there are various differences between it and the on-screen version.  Also, the fan-made renders did not use lighting that would permit ease of use in the modeling process.  So, I decided to make my own version blending various versions together while also making the film refit more of a refit than a complete rebuild.  My intention was always to make the refit version from the films to go along with this one.

Excellant I also prefer the Refit Connie , still have a soft spot for the original though .

[TheShadow1138]

The Constitution-class starship is officially in the game, and in testing.  Here are some screenshots.

USS Enterprise (NCC-1701) alongside Atlantis (NX-05):

Spoiler

 

There will be twenty (20) registry variations, some canon, some not:

Spoiler

USS Bonhomme Richard (NCC-1731)
USS Constellation (NCC-1017)
USS Constitution (NCC-1021)
USS Defiant (NCC-1764)
USS Eagle (NCC-956)
USS Emden (NCC-1856)
USS Endeavour (NCC-1895)
USS Enterprise (NCC-1701) - the default
USS Essex (NCC-1709)
USS Excalibur (NCC-1664)
USS Exeter (NCC-1672)
USS Hood (NCC-1703)
USS Hornet (NCC-1708)
USS Intrepid (NCC-1631)
USS Kearsarge (NCC-1733)
USS Lexington (NCC-1709)
USS Potemkin (NCC-1657)
USS Ticonderoga (NCC-1714)
USS Yamato (NCC-1716)
USS Yorktown (NCC-1717)

 

[1FingerSalute]

Wow!! Just wow! Great work!

[Puggonaut]

Tell you what it's not often you get the chance to name a ship after your Dog

Presenting the " USS CASSIE "

Thanks to @TheShadow1138 for sorting this out , yes i've added a TU cfg and again the @TheShadow1138 sorted that out aswell .

Testing the Connie has been straight forward with no flight issues , so I hope everyone who downloads this version when avaiable really enjoys the work and effort put into this by the Mod Author .

Next Up " The Connie Refit " are you excited , I sure am ............

[Puggonaut]

Cassie decides to visit her sibling

 

[Puggonaut]

Long Live The Empire

 

[Puggonaut]

Eve has now been claimed by the Kerbin Empire

[Draakul]

Installed this mod about a week ago and really loving it so far, uses the warp effect with great implementation and actually works smoothly too compared to Roverdudes Alcubierre drive which had a habit of tearing apart my ships when dropping out of warp and doesn't decimate my frame rate either.

It's allowed me to finally build huge capital ships for interstellar travel as I'm playing with it in RSS with some extra planet packs.

https://imgur.com/lT7Ax5l (Couldn't figure out how to post direct images)

One thing that I've wanted was to be able to tweakscale the parts as I like to repurpose them for other ship designs giving different ships warp capability but even with attempting to add a cfg to allow for tweakscale to work with some parts I've been unable to.

I resorted to using cfgs to add warp capabilities to duplicate stock/other mod parts and was able to get this to work but I found I wasn't able to get warp distortion effects when using the drive on the duplicate parts, probably due to the waterfall cfgs not being right as I really have little to none modding experience and was just copying and pasting sections of code. 

Any help would be appreciated.

[Puggonaut]

45 minutes ago, Draakul said:

Installed this mod about a week ago and really loving it so far, uses the warp effect with great implementation and actually works smoothly too compared to Roverdudes Alcubierre drive which had a habit of tearing apart my ships when dropping out of warp and doesn't decimate my frame rate either.

It's allowed me to finally build huge capital ships for interstellar travel as I'm playing with it in RSS with some extra planet packs.

https://imgur.com/lT7Ax5l (Couldn't figure out how to post direct images)

One thing that I've wanted was to be able to tweakscale the parts as I like to repurpose them for other ship designs giving different ships warp capability but even with attempting to add a cfg to allow for tweakscale to work with some parts I've been unable to.

I resorted to using cfgs to add warp capabilities to duplicate stock/other mod parts and was able to get this to work but I found I wasn't able to get warp distortion effects when using the drive on the duplicate parts, probably due to the waterfall cfgs not being right as I really have little to none modding experience and was just copying and pasting sections of code. 

Any help would be appreciated.

For images click on the one you upload on the righthand side you'll see options  copy the BB code for Forums in imgur , NOT the Linked BB code as this means people clicking on it get taken to imgur to see your pics .

The rest erm over to the Mod Author lol .