Moar Thoughts: ANGLECAN Builder (Progression Released)

[theJesuit]

New idea:

ANGLECAN Builder

More thoughts.

I had a new idea.

The idea uses Extraplanetary Launchpads.

So, the idea is to only allow Extraplanetary Launchpad parts to be launched, to the runway or launchpad.   You then have to build your rockets with this.

How to do this?  Not sure.   Maybe make all parts in game super expensive - like, off the scale expensive.   Only the basics of a EL launchpad and mobile VAB and some storage are able to be constructed.

This means that you need kerbonauts to actually build stuff.    Maybe a new specialist of Builder.  You can't launch ANYTHING without building on the Launchpad.  You'll be able to recover the buildings and replace them, but this mod would have three tiers corresponding to the size of the pad - so the first EL VAB and launchpad would be 35.9 tons (or whatever the max weight of the  tier 1 launchpad is).  The second tier with faster build times, larger rockets would be 139 tons, and then a really big facility.

A new resource of rocketparts, or whatever recipe I use something would be able to be mined from Kerbin, so that you didn't have to keep coming back to the VAB to get the parts.  I though about the EL parts generating them like an RTG, but then that would be the same off world.  Better that they mine the stuff - or have launch clamps mine it.

This may be a different mod to the Progression mod.  Maybe, ANGLECAN Launchpad Builder or something?

 

 

ANGLECAN Progression Released!

 

Thought: SIMPLEX Progression

Idea/concept most recently from this thread:

Basically, the request was  to have a science mode  with building upgrades.  Comments also that contracts are repetitive.  Imagine keeping a kerbal on the Mun to pop out every so often and plant a new flag (that she painted in the capsule?).  Funds have a funky balance. 

Also, why pay for  a large rocket when I can build it with Extraplanetary Launchpads at no cost?

So what to do?

My idea that I am now looking into using only MM patching...

• Remove all contracts except World Firsts
• Remove cost of all parts and fuels*
• Balance World Firsts rewards to suit
• Balance Strategies to convert science to funds

This would mean that to upgrade facilities and hire kerbals you need to keep progressing on further and further to get those juicy World Firsts.  but you'll be able to launch as often as you want!  Just don't kill your kerbals as they get increasingly expensive, and there are no more rescue contracts.

Effectively Career Mode becomes a Science Mode.  World First rewards would have to balance the progression, visiting Mun and Minmus and completing all the World Firsts should not allow upgrades to all facilities perhaps.  Obviously you NEED to upgrade some facilities to EVA, progress the TechTree further, or even get to the 

* Fuels might still cost?

• Possibly add back in the cost of some resources such as fuels to keep you on your toes?
• Having fuel as a cost would mean maximising payload.
• In which case shipping fuel, ore, back to kerbin equates profit?  So, while this would not be in a contract, it is a way of allowing upgrades/ firing kerbals through the return of fresh Ores from your company.

It would also mean a potential rush for ISRU to be able to upgrade facilities.  Which is Tier 6 in the TETRIX TechTree, tier 5 in the SIMPLEX TechTree.

Keen to know what people think?

Peace.

 

Edited September 29, 2021 by theJesuit

[Guest]

i like this idea

Edited September 9, 2021 by Gus888

[Cruesoe]

With the costs for all parts set to zero, the expenses that remain are Kerbal hire, fuel (?) And facility upgrades, is that it?

So some mechanic to get just enough funds to upgrade the facilities is required.

World firsts might work, or a strategy to turn science to finds.

I'm excited to experiment and see what we can build.

[theJesuit]

So, initial testing, the Test Part contracts keep coming up - tried removing them with the @Contracts and the Part Testing module.  but, I've only spent 30mins on this so far.

The entirety of the Mod is currently:

//	==================================== Seeing the coding in the stars
//	*** ANGLECAN SIMPLEX Progression *** 
//	==================================== by theJesuit
//
//	A work in progress Version 0.2
//
//	Contents:
//		Get rid of all contracts excpet Progression
//		


//Get rid of all Contracts

@Contracts
	{	!ARM					{}
		!Base					{}
		!Flag					{}
		!Grand					{}
		!ISRU					{}
		//	!Progression		{}
		!Recovery				{}
		!Satellite				{}
		!Science				{}
		!Sentinel				{}
		!CometDetection			{}
		!Station				{}
		!Survey					{}
		!Test					{}
		!Tour					{}
		!CometSample			{}
		!RoverConstruction		{}
		!VesselRepair			{}
		!RoverConstruction		{}
		!OrbitalConstruction	{}
	}

// World First Contracts

@Contracts
	{	@Progression
			{	@Funds
					{	@BaseReward = 80000		// The base funds reward of a progress node including passive and contract income
					}
				@Science
					{	@BaseReward = 8 		// The base science reward of a progress node including passive and contract income
					}
				@Reputation
					{	@BaseReward = 16 		// The base reputation reward of a progress node including passive and contract income
					}
			}
	}
	
//	Remove all costs for fuel and parts
//	Potentially the entryCost could be added as a one off 'licensing fee'

@PART[*]	
	{	@cost = 0		}

@PART[*]
	{	@entryCost = 0	}	//	Potentially the entryCost could be added as a one off 'licensing fee'

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleTestSubject]]
	{	!MODULE[ModuleTestSubject]	}
	
@RESOURCE_DEFINITION[*]
	{	@unitCost = 0	}
 

 

But I should say that you should get 122000 Funds from a first launch with a flea, and accepting those two contracts, science and launch a vehicle.  With no part costs this should be a piece of cake!

[Gotmachine]

It's not as easy to get ride of all part costs. Some costs are dynamically added by PartModules (basic example : fairings).

You might be able to patch away some of them through configs, but things will start to get messy when modules from other mods are involved.

But since you don't intend to completely get ride of all funds sources, that might be acceptable. Depends on how refined you expect the end result to be.

Note that removing/editing the facilities upgrade costs and kerbals hiring costs is possible via configs if you add CustomBarnKit as a dependency :

 

Edited September 10, 2021 by Gotmachine

[theJesuit]

22 minutes ago, Gotmachine said:

Some costs are dynamically added by PartModules (basic example : fairings).

Good to know. Thanks!

Not sure how far i want to take this really. An interesting exercise for sure.  The part test coming back even with the above patch is quite annoying.

 

[Gotmachine]

You're missing a "{}" and a ",*" in the patch :

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleTestSubject]]
	{	!MODULE[ModuleTestSubject],* {}	}

As for the viability of the idea, honestly, it will be quite hard and messy to achieve what you want through configs only.
Creating a plugin that :
1. Always reset funds to zero
2. Patch away all part costs
3. Implements unlocking a facility level when a specific tech tree node is unlocked
isn't very hard to write.

This being said, you will always run into compatibility issues with mods that rely on funds in a way or another to do some custom actions.

Edited September 10, 2021 by Gotmachine

[theJesuit]

Okay, so tested this now, in terms of costing it out.  100% normal settings.

As long as you ACCEPT the World First contracts (which gives you MORE funds), but only the world firsts, I got to orbit - no part costs - no fuel costs.

That is the initial 4 World Firsts, followed by the Explore Kerbin return from orbit.

Obviously, the regular amazing amount of science is now held.

I have 482600 Funds - 

Mission Control 75K* - Node Planning

Tracking station 150K* - Node Planning

Now 257600 Funds

Accepted WF contract flyby of Mun now 344960 Funds

Completed WF contract flyby of Mun with science and return to Kerbin

Now 887200 (total 1,112,200) Funds from World First Contracts only.

Mission Control 75K - EVA off Kerbin's surface

Launchpad 50K 

VAB 225K

R&D 486K * surface samples

Now 86000 Funds.  

So it all looks feasible.  Just to get removal of those pesky other contracts (as the first try doesn't work) and removal of the fairing cost?

 

[theJesuit]

Okay so it is feasible cost wise - see above post:

Part cost is 0

entryCost seems to be non useful when cost is 0, so licencing fees are able to be implemented

Have the Fairings dealt with.  Fairings add cost depending on size.  This is no 0.

Resource costs are 0.

This causes an issue with Ore Tanks I think.  Especially adding in the Ore Economics part where you can return Ore to Kerbin for FUNDS!

I set the cost of Ore to 50 per unit initally, and I am working on setting the OreTanks back to a neutral cost.

Might have to make Ore not available from Kerbin as well to balance.

This will mean landing a massive asteroid will result in a big pay out!

Jokingly, I wonder if Ore on asteroids can ablate?

 

So nearly ready for a 1.0 release.  Stock only.  Contract Configurator mod and Contract packs not going to be compatable!

Will look at mods at a different time.  B9-Part switch might funks costs around with tank switching.

Then, make it work with SimplexReources, and the Gold Standard! Mod.  What do you think @zer0Kerbal?

 

 

[zer0Kerbal]

14 minutes ago, theJesuit said:

Gold Standard!

cha-ching! show me the cheddar!

[theJesuit]

23 hours ago, zer0Kerbal said:

cha-ching! show me the cheddar!

Now released, this will be in next update - next weekend?

Please go here for further comments/ suggestions/ frustrations.

 

[theJesuit]

More thoughts.

I had a new idea to sit with this mod, sit alongside this mod.

The idea uses Extraplanetary Launchpads.

So, the idea is to only allow Extraplanetary Launchpad parts to be launched, to the runway or launchpad.   You then have to build your rockets with this.

How to do this?  Not sure.   Maybe make all parts in game super expensive - like, off the scale expensive.   Only the basics of a EL launchpad and mobile VAB and some storage are able to be constructed.

This means that you need kerbonauts to actually build stuff.    Maybe a new specialist of Builder.  You can't launch ANYTHING without building on the Launchpad.  You'll be able to recover the buildings and replace them, but this mod would have three tiers corresponding to the size of the pad - so the first EL VAB and launchpad would be 35.9 tons (or whatever the max weight of the  tier 1 launchpad is).  The second tier with faster build times, larger rockets would be 139 tons, and then a really big facility.

A new resource of rocketparts, or whatever recipe I use something would be able to be mined from Kerbin, so that you didn't have to keep coming back to the VAB to get the parts.  I though about the EL parts generating them like an RTG, but then that would be the same off world.  Better that they mine the stuff - or have launch clamps mine it.

This may be a different mod to the Progression mod.  Maybe, ANGLECAN Launchpad Builder or something?